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On June 30 2012 10:40 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:00 EatThePath wrote:That timing with the sentry was pretty thin. And the gas stealing player basically messed up as much as possible in his attack. But it was funny to watch nonetheless. You don't need a Sentry. I could have made some Stalkers instead 
I don't think that's a winning strat vs double gas steal.
If he had just sat at the bottom of your ramp with the stalkers instead of running up and getting force fielded (Twice!) he would have had his expo up way before you could even think about having one, as well as being able to harass your army as it moved out.
You won that game because he suicided 5 stalkers.
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On June 30 2012 10:02 -Zao- wrote:
This is terrible.
The only good use I can see maybe working once is if you dbl gas steal and then go for a 4gate.
Yea, that's what you can usually do with this build. Problem is if they get a ton of cannons then you'll need a warp prism as well. You also have to be on the lookout for proxy gate(s).
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On June 30 2012 12:41 dae wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:40 CecilSunkure wrote:On June 30 2012 10:00 EatThePath wrote:That timing with the sentry was pretty thin. And the gas stealing player basically messed up as much as possible in his attack. But it was funny to watch nonetheless. You don't need a Sentry. I could have made some Stalkers instead I don't think that's a winning strat vs double gas steal. If he had just sat at the bottom of your ramp with the stalkers instead of running up and getting force fielded (Twice!) he would have had his expo up way before you could even think about having one, as well as being able to harass your army as it moved out. You won that game because he suicided 5 stalkers.
If he has five stalkers at the bottom of my ramp he's going to lose them? He also has no idea what is up my ramp due to denying of scouting. If he tries to do a contain + expo the opponent can lose a prism.
I'm just pointing out that the opponent didn't make "giant mistakes" that would have won him the game if he had played otherwise, as people here are saying. It's not complicated... Just don't overreact, make a cannon, chrono your gates not your WG and you'll be just fine.
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Waste investment in my opinion. What level is this at?
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On July 01 2012 00:21 cmcnutt34 wrote:
Waste investment in my opinion. What level is this at?
I'm currently in masters. I used to be top 8, but I haven't been laddering a lot recently. I'm rank like 40 or so right now as toss. I can play the other races in masters just not as well
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On June 30 2012 10:38 Darthsanta13 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:17 Scurvy wrote:
I have tried to double gas steal as Zerg against Protoss a few times, and in general I have found it to be very effective. Even though I lose two drones, it is worth it in the way that it completely changes your opponent's strategy, and forces some crazy response. If you do it right of course. Do you do this against FFE or just gate expand or one base play? When FFE'ing it seems like for most gas timings you could just take the gas at your natural and have units out by the time you need to take your third and fourth gas.
I don't do it if they FFE (which is most of the time) but any time they try some sort of 1 base play, I have found that it forces a proxy gate zealot rush, which when you know it is coming, is quite easy to defend.
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On July 01 2012 01:35 Scurvy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 10:38 Darthsanta13 wrote:On June 30 2012 10:17 Scurvy wrote:
I have tried to double gas steal as Zerg against Protoss a few times, and in general I have found it to be very effective. Even though I lose two drones, it is worth it in the way that it completely changes your opponent's strategy, and forces some crazy response. If you do it right of course. Do you do this against FFE or just gate expand or one base play? When FFE'ing it seems like for most gas timings you could just take the gas at your natural and have units out by the time you need to take your third and fourth gas. I don't do it if they FFE (which is most of the time) but any time they try some sort of 1 base play, I have found that it forces a proxy gate zealot rush, which when you know it is coming, is quite easy to defend.
I can see that actually being really useful vs gateway openings. Although they aren't very common this does seem like a good idea.
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I like the innovation, but i cannot see how it would work against a good response.
The other day somebody did it to me, and all I had to do was not overact, make some zealots to take out the gas (dont cut workers), pressure with like 5-6 zealots to scout and kill a few workers, and follow up with a robo/immortal timing.
Here is a replay of me crushing it:
http://drop.sc/210332
+ Show Spoiler +
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On July 01 2012 02:49 Swagtacular wrote:I like the innovation, but i cannot see how it would work against a good response. The other day somebody did it to me, and all I had to do was not overact, make some zealots to take out the gas (dont cut workers), pressure with like 5-6 zealots to scout and kill a few workers, and follow up with a robo/immortal timing. Here is a replay of me crushing it: http://drop.sc/210332+ Show Spoiler +
I don't think this was the best response. Just like the other replay posted in here, your opponent made a few mistakes, probably because they don't have enough practice with this build. He got supply blocked really badly around 5:00 for a long time. I also don't like going blink after double gas stealing. His warp gate was so far ahead, and he knew your zealot count, so I don't know why he didn't go for some sort of 4 gate. Also, had he walled off like I said in this build, the zealot pressure wouldn't have done any damage.
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Thanks for sharing! It's the kind of idea that is fun to throw in a Best of X series in clan wars or tournament.
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Hey, i was wondering. I have done alot of korean 4gating in PvP, and there usually is this short space of time between a zealot and a stalker where you can just put down pylons in your opponents base and let them finnish before he can kill them. If you delay his warp gate tech with double gas steal, this means korean 4gate would be even more effective (if not countered by cannon in miniral line..but then you can still do massive damage). Would it be possible of instead using 4gate warp prism, to hide a probe, and even if he finds out, he only has zealots, probe beats zealots, and then just spam a bunch of pylons in his base?
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On July 01 2012 06:07 Xenocide_EU wrote:
Hey, i was wondering. I have done alot of korean 4gating in PvP, and there usually is this short space of time between a zealot and a stalker where you can just put down pylons in your opponents base and let them finnish before he can kill them. If you delay his warp gate tech with double gas steal, this means korean 4gate would be even more effective (if not countered by cannon in miniral line..but then you can still do massive damage). Would it be possible of instead using 4gate warp prism, to hide a probe, and even if he finds out, he only has zealots, probe beats zealots, and then just spam a bunch of pylons in his base?
I thought that about Nawina's blink+obs build but man, you know what a good toss does?
They FFE and cheese you with Gaulzi style cannon rushing.
It can be favorable but its just safer to not double gas steal period.
Heck when I proxy 2 gate'd in PvP I didn't double gas steal, I sent 1 zealot to attack the stalker and took the rest and went after the mineral line, if the probes ran I split lets 1-2 chase the probes and took the others and killed pylons.
Double gas steal imo is a very nice way of saying "PLEASE CHEESE ME, I like to be cannon rushed and even if I survive I'm okay with you having a early expo while I'm hurting from the cheese."
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On June 30 2012 11:03 moskonia wrote:
The delay against FFE as Zerg might provide a timing attack that uses the WG timing delay, even though I am not sure if its worth it.
this is interesting. not only would it delay warp tech, it would force early zealots which would cut into probe production
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On July 01 2012 07:19 RespectedPuddle wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 11:03 moskonia wrote:
The delay against FFE as Zerg might provide a timing attack that uses the WG timing delay, even though I am not sure if its worth it. this is interesting. not only would it delay warp tech, it would force early zealots which would cut into probe production
If you're not mining vespene there's no reason for probe cuts.
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On July 01 2012 07:19 Babel Fish wrote:
Double gas steal imo is a very nice way of saying "PLEASE CHEESE ME, I like to be cannon rushed and even if I survive I'm okay with you having a early expo while I'm hurting from the cheese."
Umm, I mentioned in the video that if you wall off, you will be able to spot incoming probes, and you should also scout for the forge. Check around your base, and check for proxy gates later on, and you should be fine.
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Just tried it in a PvP, it worked surprisingly well.
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Someone just did it to me, ended up being the most hillarious PvP I ever had. It is just Plaitnum league and we are both very, like really, really very bad. But I give it to you as an illustration, what can happen from a double gas steal. There is even long distance mineral mining! I wish people did it more 
http://drop.sc/211980
edit: just wanted to add that without having read this thread yesterdar, I would probably has no idea what to do. TL is so usefull
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In PvP, if you see a probe enter your base that early especially on a 2 player map, there's an extremely high chance you're getting proxied, cannon rushed, or double gas stolen. I would immediately scout my base and/or stick a probe on his probe especially on maps that are easy to cannon rush behind the mineral lines or do this style of double gas stealing.
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On July 02 2012 10:26 rsvp wrote:
In PvP, if you see a probe enter your base that early especially on a 2 player map, there's an extremely high chance you're getting proxied, cannon rushed, or double gas stolen. I would immediately scout my base and/or stick a probe on his probe especially on maps that are easy to cannon rush behind the mineral lines or do this style of double gas stealing.
I get scouted that early most of the time (in masters) and usually none of that happens. I think people just scout after 9 to make sure they're not getting cannon rushed / proxied. What is a standard time for scouting in pvp? After gate?
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EPT
