On May 05 2012 22:49 AA.spoon wrote: You forgot to mention that ghost only take 2 supply, making them one of the best units when maxed. Often terran armies will be more expensive (and stronger) when maxed if terran was smart enough to make 10+ ghosts (15 or so). Small tips you might add: scan and kill obs with vikings; your ghosts have free range now.
I do note that it is ideal to have 15+ ghosts in the Composition section. I have the other tips in the Engagement section, but I forgot to add that little point. >< Editing now. Edited. Edit: I forgot to add that I edited the Ghost description in the "Compositions" section.
Wow the game with Happy was just awesome^^. I think heaving a lot of cloked ghosts and killing the observers is really powerfull. Regarding this i have got a question. Does my opponent see my ghosts, when i scan on top of them ?
On May 05 2012 21:36 ArchAngelSC wrote: From what I understand about your guide, you seem to say that stutter stepping vs chargelots isn't that big of a deal? Not sure I agree with that.
The rest seems like pretty solid advice, though pretty standard
There is no point in kiting chargelots after charge buff, they are gonna hit you anyway, so why would you waste time, APM and DPS on kiting? Also stutter stepping a maxed out army fucks up your concave so units in the back (in that case marines, who are the main DPS) aren't dealing the biggest possible damage. Sure, after charge is on CD there is nothing wrong with kiting but by this time most zelots are dead, or at least should be. I guess microing ghosts is more important then focusing on kiting against chargelots. Obviously it only applies to late game, not mid game, gateway-heavy army.
On May 06 2012 05:03 Sianos wrote: Wow the game with Happy was just awesome^^. I think heaving a lot of cloked ghosts and killing the observers is really powerfull. Regarding this i have got a question. Does my opponent see my ghosts, when i scan on top of them ?
On May 06 2012 11:08 ellaguru wrote: i think there was a lot of useful information here for non-masters players.
the number of tech labs and reactors, the ratios of terran versus protoss units, the micro priority, the mass ghosts strategy
Most master and grandmaster foreigners don't know these things, and instead go for 4-5 ghosts, 'enough' vikings, and mass marauder/medivac with only a couple of marines.
i found this really helpful actually! as a high diamond working towards masters, army comp and micro priority part was quite informative. thanks for the guide!
On May 05 2012 10:05 phiinix wrote: Sorry but I'm having a hard time understanding what exactly is the usefulness in this guide. Presumably it answers the question "how should I play late game TvP?" but it doesn't say much about taking additional bases, denying bases, or specifics about the composition. It seems to assume that protoss will have roughly even splits on gas in terms of colossus/templar/archon, and therefore terran should get x vikings and x ghosts. The army looks extremely micro intensive to me; 15 ghosts are suppose to kill/disable every ht, because the army is ridiculously marine intensive don't you think?
I feel like the steps to micro aren't really thread worthy, it's basically saying: use the ghosts to kill off templar and deal damage with emp, use the vikings to kill the colossus, and use your bio with stim to kill what's left over.
Also, 1 replay really isn't enough, there are so many ways to get there that a late game focused guide should really deal with minimum of 5 games.
The guide basically boils down to: get upgrades, get a lot of ghosts. Where's the meat?
Crap, I must really fail at making guides releasing the guide in readable condition. :|
Yeah, I know one replay isn't nearly enough. I need to add more, but I also want to make sure it's not a huge fail from the other guy and both me and my opponent actually played well. I should have waited and made this a much better guide. I tried to cover too much so no real content.
I actually posted these replays in another thread about TvP, which shortly after got closed. I use the mass ghost/viking composition in those games.
On May 05 2012 10:05 phiinix wrote: Sorry but I'm having a hard time understanding what exactly is the usefulness in this guide. Presumably it answers the question "how should I play late game TvP?" but it doesn't say much about taking additional bases, denying bases, or specifics about the composition. It seems to assume that protoss will have roughly even splits on gas in terms of colossus/templar/archon, and therefore terran should get x vikings and x ghosts. The army looks extremely micro intensive to me; 15 ghosts are suppose to kill/disable every ht, because the army is ridiculously marine intensive don't you think?
I feel like the steps to micro aren't really thread worthy, it's basically saying: use the ghosts to kill off templar and deal damage with emp, use the vikings to kill the colossus, and use your bio with stim to kill what's left over.
Also, 1 replay really isn't enough, there are so many ways to get there that a late game focused guide should really deal with minimum of 5 games.
The guide basically boils down to: get upgrades, get a lot of ghosts. Where's the meat?
Crap, I must really fail at making guides releasing the guide in readable condition. :|
Yeah, I know one replay isn't nearly enough. I need to add more, but I also want to make sure it's not a huge fail from the other guy and both me and my opponent actually played well. I should have waited and made this a much better guide. I tried to cover too much so no real content.
I actually posted these replays in another thread about TvP, which shortly after got closed. I use the mass ghost/viking composition in those games.
I finally got around to watching these. Nice games!
Would you mind adding a description for each so I can add them to the OP? I'm still not good at the game yet compared to a lot of people, so I'd love to see your thought process behind the games.
On May 05 2012 13:30 NrGmonk wrote: The OP might enjoy the following game where Happy beats one of the best PvT players in the world with a similar style:
The OP suggests marine heavy, marauder light, ghost heavy, while Happy goes ghost heavy, marine light, marauder light.
The only 2 players who use close to this style include Happy and Thorzain. Major used to kinda do it, but I have seen anything from him in a while.
You might also want to include disadvantages of this style. You can't apply much pressure onto toss throughout the whole game and it's not as micro based.
OK, I finally got to watch it since chrome apparently doesn't like youtube for some reason. ><
This style Happy did in that game reminds me a lot of the old mass Tank/Ghost in TvZ back before the Snipe nerf. (Which is still completely stupid, IMO.) It crushes through big engagements so hard, and you can be on less bases but Marines, Ghosts, macro Orbitals and bunkers are so good that it doesn't even matter that much.
On May 06 2012 11:08 ellaguru wrote: i think there was a lot of useful information here for non-masters players.
the number of tech labs and reactors, the ratios of terran versus protoss units, the micro priority, the mass ghosts strategy
Glad I helped. ^_^
In other news, in today's Day9 Daily, the final game is completely screwed up composition-wise from MKP. If he had made more Marines, Ghosts, Medivacs, and Vikings instead of basically Mass Marauder, he could have won, but instead he went for said mass marauder and lost to storms and colossus.
On May 05 2012 10:05 phiinix wrote: Sorry but I'm having a hard time understanding what exactly is the usefulness in this guide. Presumably it answers the question "how should I play late game TvP?" but it doesn't say much about taking additional bases, denying bases, or specifics about the composition. It seems to assume that protoss will have roughly even splits on gas in terms of colossus/templar/archon, and therefore terran should get x vikings and x ghosts. The army looks extremely micro intensive to me; 15 ghosts are suppose to kill/disable every ht, because the army is ridiculously marine intensive don't you think?
I feel like the steps to micro aren't really thread worthy, it's basically saying: use the ghosts to kill off templar and deal damage with emp, use the vikings to kill the colossus, and use your bio with stim to kill what's left over.
Also, 1 replay really isn't enough, there are so many ways to get there that a late game focused guide should really deal with minimum of 5 games.
The guide basically boils down to: get upgrades, get a lot of ghosts. Where's the meat?
Crap, I must really fail at making guides releasing the guide in readable condition. :|
Yeah, I know one replay isn't nearly enough. I need to add more, but I also want to make sure it's not a huge fail from the other guy and both me and my opponent actually played well. I should have waited and made this a much better guide. I tried to cover too much so no real content.
I actually posted these replays in another thread about TvP, which shortly after got closed. I use the mass ghost/viking composition in those games.
I finally got around to watching these. Nice games!
Would you mind adding a description for each so I can add them to the OP? I'm still not good at the game yet compared to a lot of people, so I'd love to see your thought process behind the games.
Basically I'm trying to transition from the heavy aggressive marine/marauder/medivac style to a more passive mass ghost/viking play as soon as I can secure 8 gas geysers or earlier if I see that I can't max out on normal bio. (When he already has colossus and storm)
On May 05 2012 10:05 phiinix wrote: Sorry but I'm having a hard time understanding what exactly is the usefulness in this guide. Presumably it answers the question "how should I play late game TvP?" but it doesn't say much about taking additional bases, denying bases, or specifics about the composition. It seems to assume that protoss will have roughly even splits on gas in terms of colossus/templar/archon, and therefore terran should get x vikings and x ghosts. The army looks extremely micro intensive to me; 15 ghosts are suppose to kill/disable every ht, because the army is ridiculously marine intensive don't you think?
I feel like the steps to micro aren't really thread worthy, it's basically saying: use the ghosts to kill off templar and deal damage with emp, use the vikings to kill the colossus, and use your bio with stim to kill what's left over.
Also, 1 replay really isn't enough, there are so many ways to get there that a late game focused guide should really deal with minimum of 5 games.
The guide basically boils down to: get upgrades, get a lot of ghosts. Where's the meat?
Crap, I must really fail at making guides releasing the guide in readable condition. :|
Yeah, I know one replay isn't nearly enough. I need to add more, but I also want to make sure it's not a huge fail from the other guy and both me and my opponent actually played well. I should have waited and made this a much better guide. I tried to cover too much so no real content.
I actually posted these replays in another thread about TvP, which shortly after got closed. I use the mass ghost/viking composition in those games.
I finally got around to watching these. Nice games!
Would you mind adding a description for each so I can add them to the OP? I'm still not good at the game yet compared to a lot of people, so I'd love to see your thought process behind the games.
Basically I'm trying to transition from the heavy aggressive marine/marauder/medivac style to a more passive mass ghost/viking play as soon as I can secure 8 gas geysers or earlier if I see that I can't max out on normal bio. (When he already has colossus and storm)
OK, I'll add them and quote that in the OP.
Does anyone have thoughts on Nukes? I haven't added anything related to them to the OP because I don't really know how to use them that well, and are basically the last thing on my mind whenever I play.
Ughhhh. Good read but I am so disgusted at the facts that Terran needs extremely high APM to deal with late game Protoss. 3 Hotkeys compared to Protoss's one or maybe two? Also with the zealots? Disgusting. T v P is annoying as shit
On May 08 2012 09:25 Dontkillme wrote: Ughhhh. Good read but I am so disgusted at the facts that Terran needs extremely high APM to deal with late game Protoss. 3 Hotkeys compared to Protoss's one or maybe two? Also with the zealots? Disgusting. T v P is annoying as shit
True, but in BoX's you have the advantage with hard-to-scout cheese plus an advantage in super-late-game situations with PF's, Nukes, and macro Orbitals. I also often have less APM than my opponent during games, according to SC2 Gears.
By the way, engagements against a Protoss death ball are actually easier than dealing with Ultra/Bling/Infestor IMO. It's just less forgiving if you lose a fight and have no defensive PF's to fall back to.
On May 08 2012 09:38 Snoodles wrote: Fencer, since you're on a roll can you tell us your approach to fighting infestor brood lords? Do you use ghosts vs Zerg?
That would be a different topic entirely, but my view on it (and Day9's) is that Infestor/Broodlord is so immobile that a pair of double drops (four medivacs total, and a combination of MM inside them) to snipe drones and expansions to keep him from re-maxing is the first key, and the second is to get a large concave with viking/thor/unsieged tank/marine/medivac, while focus firing brood lords with the Thors. Then you just have to defend the reinforcing ling/bane.
Polt did something like this and Day9 showed it in one of his dailies.
On May 08 2012 09:46 Alejandrisha wrote: i will gladly put on a lategame tvp clinic against the strat forum's very own NrGmonk to demonstrate scan + ghost abuse after 5+ orbitals
EPT
