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How to spot a 4gate? - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Tal0n
Profile Joined April 2010
United States175 Posts
March 06 2012 21:53 GMT
#21
4 gate isnt so scary. you can hold it with a solid build even if you only see it when the units warp in. (as z at least)
timmc
Profile Joined September 2011
Australia16 Posts
March 08 2012 01:52 GMT
#22
Low level scouting is overrated because no one really knows what the hell they're doing lol. Just have at least one sentry to ff the ramp, make units and you'll be ok.
lhr0909
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States562 Posts
March 08 2012 02:03 GMT
#23
Not sure what matchup you are talking about. Almost every PvT and PvP, no matter what build they are doing, the second unit is most likely a stalker. So you cannot just assume what build they are going from the second unit. But usually 4 gate only takes 1 gas. When you walk in with your worker, if you see high energy on nexus, and only 1 gas taken, assume it is a fast warpgate push coming by 6:00. prepare accordingly based on your race (T: bunker, P: make units, 1 sentry to block ramp)

As a zerg player, I can tell you that you cannot assume it is a 4 gate when you see the second unit coming out of the gateway is a stalker and have only 1 gas. It could be 1 gate expand, a DT rush or a stargate push on 1 base, or 4 gate. So the correct response as zerg would be, if you don't see him expand by 5:30 (1 gate expo timing), get an evo chamber, and put down 2 spines and 1 spore outside of your natural, and make about 28-32 drones by 6:00, then all lings until you hold off push. it should be enough for holding off 3 gate stargate / 4 gate, and be prepared for DT rush.
No Pain No Gain
ThomasHobbes
Profile Joined October 2010
United States197 Posts
March 08 2012 02:20 GMT
#24
As a Zerg :

Keep a close eye on his initial units, that is the easiest indicator. He wants / needs to bring his 1-2 stalker / zealot force from his base to meet up with the force warping in at the proxy pylon.

You should be getting speed against any 1-base opening, and you should be sending in an overlord to scout around 5:45.

If the base is empty, make sure to send a ling around the map checking for proxies, both pylons and tech.

If his second unit is a stalker, it's usually an indicator that he wants to hoard gas for some other purpose, and if the third unit is also a stalker, he's up to something. Making 2-3 spines and 1 spore against 1-base play is almost always worth it.

Don't overcommit to defenses, and keep in mind that, so long as you have a slight worker advantage, you should be hard pressed to lose the game.
"The life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."
hzflank
Profile Joined August 2011
United Kingdom2991 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-08 02:54:56
March 08 2012 02:49 GMT
#25
All you really need to look at is the energy on the nexus. It should be at <20 energy when your orbital starts to morph. If it is >25 at this time then he is getting a fast warpgate tech.

Also, if you see 3 pylons in their base but only 1 gateway, they are not 4 gating. If you dont see the third pylon starting before their stalker completes then either it is somewhere on the map (send first marine to scout) or they are 4 gating. The clarify: If they made a zealot thenThe third pylon should start after the stalker starts but before the stalker finishes. If they are 4 gating then the third pylon wont come until after the extra gateways.
Filter
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada620 Posts
March 08 2012 03:09 GMT
#26
On March 08 2012 10:52 timmc wrote:
Low level scouting is overrated because no one really knows what the hell they're doing lol. Just have at least one sentry to ff the ramp, make units and you'll be ok.


A shitty 4gate isn't nearly as scary as a realy 4gate. A pro level 4gate hits before you have anything to produce off except your 1 barracks and most likely no tech. The non pro level 4gates are much shitter, like if the 3rd pylon is up in base then you'll gain an extra 20-30 seconds, same with the second gas.

The biggest key to a 4gate is the third pylon. If you don't see the third pylon use your marines to scout around your base for potential forward pylons and pull them back to your bunker when his stalkers probably coming cross map.

The third pylon is key, if he has 3 in his base then it's a shitty 4gate or another build.
Live hard, live free.
Host-
Profile Joined December 2010
New Zealand459 Posts
March 08 2012 03:26 GMT
#27
Thing about no expo by 5:30 is that dt expand, sg expand and most commonly 3gate expand. Typically though, if its not down by 5:30 you'll want 2 spines just incase.
hzflank
Profile Joined August 2011
United Kingdom2991 Posts
March 08 2012 03:35 GMT
#28
On March 08 2012 12:26 Host- wrote:
Thing about no expo by 5:30 is that dt expand, sg expand and most commonly 3gate expand. Typically though, if its not down by 5:30 you'll want 2 spines just incase.


All 3 of those require him to get his second gas before the stalker comes out. A 2-gas 4 gate is going to be later and easier to hold. If he has 2 gas and 3 pylons then he is definately not going to be 4 gating.
Marooned
Profile Joined January 2011
Norway161 Posts
March 08 2012 03:52 GMT
#29
On March 08 2012 12:09 Filter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2012 10:52 timmc wrote:
Low level scouting is overrated because no one really knows what the hell they're doing lol. Just have at least one sentry to ff the ramp, make units and you'll be ok.


A shitty 4gate isn't nearly as scary as a realy 4gate. A pro level 4gate hits before you have anything to produce off except your 1 barracks and most likely no tech. The non pro level 4gates are much shitter, like if the 3rd pylon is up in base then you'll gain an extra 20-30 seconds, same with the second gas.

The biggest key to a 4gate is the third pylon. If you don't see the third pylon use your marines to scout around your base for potential forward pylons and pull them back to your bunker when his stalkers probably coming cross map.

The third pylon is key, if he has 3 in his base then it's a shitty 4gate or another build.


Tell me more about this please, sounds interesting
oOOoOphidian
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1402 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-08 04:16:04
March 08 2012 04:15 GMT
#30
1 gas 4gate (PvP style) is incredibly easy to scout. If you drone scout you can see their high energy on nexus and chronos used on warp gate tech, as well as zealot+stalker and no 2nd gas taken. No expansion by 5:30-6min is a good sign it's a 4gate. If you have diligently denied any probes from hiding pylons, you can be rather safe to just make ~16 lings, then crush them if they attack. If they try to expand instead, just drone a bit and then go mass roach/ling and kill them.

2 gas 4gate (zealot/sentry) is much harder to hold imo. Basically what you have to do is build 2 spines blindly, even if they end up expanding anyway. This leaves you room to drone and pump emergency lings incase they are all-inning you, or even if they are simply doing a risky 6~ sentry pressure behind an expansion. Most people will probably claim that isn't an all-in, but it's a huge commitment to sentries across the map, so if you kill all of those you've won the game right there. The 2 spines are absolutely critical (need them before 7 minutes typically) in stopping this type of attack. You simply use your lings/queens and drones to support the spines and never let them run up your ramp. When this aggression comes don't be afraid to go up to 4 spines too. Roaches in large numbers can help, but you won't be able to make them this early in the numbers needed, so lings and spines are necessary.
Creator of sc2unmasked.com
spatz
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany153 Posts
March 08 2012 04:16 GMT
#31
get mapcontrol, look for probes + no expo = 4gate or dt.
LanTAs
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1091 Posts
March 08 2012 04:29 GMT
#32
if there is 75+ energy when the 1st zealot out, one gas, around 18 probes on min, its safe to assume that its a forgate
lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
March 08 2012 04:44 GMT
#33
Cybernetics core is almost done with almost full energy on the nexus is also a tell.
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
MadProbe
Profile Joined February 2012
United States269 Posts
March 08 2012 04:46 GMT
#34
LOL so much bad advice. first you need to tell us what your race is and what league you're in. otherwise we can't give you helpful information.
bpat
Profile Joined September 2011
United States157 Posts
March 08 2012 04:50 GMT
#35
No expansion and nothing in his base except 1-2 pylons, a gateway, a core, and an assimilator. He should have lots of chrono energy and be chronoing warpgate but not any units or probes. 4gaters usually have about 20 probes, so see if he stopped making them. If all of these are the case, prepare for a 4gate.
Mrvoodoochild1
Profile Joined June 2011
United States1439 Posts
March 08 2012 05:06 GMT
#36
When and if they take their second gas, how many chrono boost was used on the cyber core, and where the third and fourth pylons are.
"let your freak flag fly"
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5356 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-09 06:45:50
March 08 2012 05:16 GMT
#37
On March 08 2012 12:52 Marooned wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2012 12:09 Filter wrote:
On March 08 2012 10:52 timmc wrote:
Low level scouting is overrated because no one really knows what the hell they're doing lol. Just have at least one sentry to ff the ramp, make units and you'll be ok.


A shitty 4gate isn't nearly as scary as a realy 4gate. A pro level 4gate hits before you have anything to produce off except your 1 barracks and most likely no tech. The non pro level 4gates are much shitter, like if the 3rd pylon is up in base then you'll gain an extra 20-30 seconds, same with the second gas.

The biggest key to a 4gate is the third pylon. If you don't see the third pylon use your marines to scout around your base for potential forward pylons and pull them back to your bunker when his stalkers probably coming cross map.

The third pylon is key, if he has 3 in his base then it's a shitty 4gate or another build.


Tell me more about this please, sounds interesting

Not much to say lol, whenever you see pros 4gate, they only build two pylons in the main and time their third pylon so that they can warp in at the proxy immediately once their gateways morph into warpgates. You only need two pylons since you're cutting probes at ~20 and end up either 24 or 26 supply (depending on whether you made another stalker or not behind your first zealot and stalker).
Amateur players put down more pylons in their main because they
1. forgot to cut probes
2. built more units from their initial gateway, meaning they didn't consistently chrono their core
That third pylon is the 4gaters ticket to warping in as soon as possible, which is really important when you're 4gating.
¯\_(シ)_/¯
Carbonthief
Profile Joined October 2010
United States289 Posts
March 08 2012 05:46 GMT
#38
On March 08 2012 12:09 Filter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2012 10:52 timmc wrote:
Low level scouting is overrated because no one really knows what the hell they're doing lol. Just have at least one sentry to ff the ramp, make units and you'll be ok.


A shitty 4gate isn't nearly as scary as a realy 4gate. A pro level 4gate hits before you have anything to produce off except your 1 barracks and most likely no tech. The non pro level 4gates are much shitter, like if the 3rd pylon is up in base then you'll gain an extra 20-30 seconds, same with the second gas.

The biggest key to a 4gate is the third pylon. If you don't see the third pylon use your marines to scout around your base for potential forward pylons and pull them back to your bunker when his stalkers probably coming cross map.

The third pylon is key, if he has 3 in his base then it's a shitty 4gate or another build.


Actually not quite true. It doesn't matter a 3rd pylon is in his base or not. What matters is if he makes it before adding on the 3 gates, which is bad. In a solid 4 gate, after you add on your 3 gates, you can afford 2-3 pylons depending upon whether you made a 3rd unit or just went zealot stalker. Most people proxy all 2-3 pylons to increase the chances of one surviving. But it does not screw up the build order at all to make one back at home, and in fact can be beneficial if you're afraid of your artosis pylon getting sniped by a counter attack.

The old standard zealot stalker 4 gate was engineered for pvp because you could build a proxy away from the ramp and 2 more right up in their face and it's almost impossible to kill the pylons that are in your face before they get a warp in, because stalkers don't actually do damage. Now it's harder to get vision of the high ground so you can stop this with forcefields. But before the patch that finally nerfed this, you could run your zealot and stalker up against a perfect forcefield and get enough vision to warp onto the high ground. And THAT is why pvp used to be exclusively 4 gate vs 4 gate.
Bellazuk
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada146 Posts
March 08 2012 06:01 GMT
#39
I got 70% + winrate vs protoss, 4 gate is so easy to defend, you scout , just delay his timing by stealing one gaz, as zerg go meta boost , then remove all drone off gaz, get 2 lings , 1 at the bottom of his ramp another at the tower, drone drone drone, dont get supply block, your zergling get killed at his ramp, build 4 spine crawler, you see him comming with your other ling at the tower, then mass speed ling, get your queens down in your nat, engage in your spine, surround, dont move out of the spine range.

If your zergling get killed at his ramp but u dont see him moving out, then wait 10 seconds, then go see if he expend, if so, cancel ur 4 spines, and get back to drone. If u made tons of lings cuz u over reacted and he expend, no big deal, u got 2 base and him 1, u can try to snipe some sentrys at his nat or harrass.

I hope it helps. I know as a terran you need 2 least 2 bunkers but i dont know that much on timings.
“The only thing standing between you and your goal is the bullshit story you keep telling yourself as to why you can't achieve it.”
Operations
Profile Joined February 2012
115 Posts
March 08 2012 09:47 GMT
#40
What about the fast expand build that cuts probes and still goes for the 4 gates? How do you scout that?
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