EPTHow to spot a 4gate? - Page 2
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Tal0n
United States175 Posts
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timmc
Australia16 Posts
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lhr0909
United States562 Posts
As a zerg player, I can tell you that you cannot assume it is a 4 gate when you see the second unit coming out of the gateway is a stalker and have only 1 gas. It could be 1 gate expand, a DT rush or a stargate push on 1 base, or 4 gate. So the correct response as zerg would be, if you don't see him expand by 5:30 (1 gate expo timing), get an evo chamber, and put down 2 spines and 1 spore outside of your natural, and make about 28-32 drones by 6:00, then all lings until you hold off push. it should be enough for holding off 3 gate stargate / 4 gate, and be prepared for DT rush. | ||
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ThomasHobbes
United States197 Posts
Keep a close eye on his initial units, that is the easiest indicator. He wants / needs to bring his 1-2 stalker / zealot force from his base to meet up with the force warping in at the proxy pylon. You should be getting speed against any 1-base opening, and you should be sending in an overlord to scout around 5:45. If the base is empty, make sure to send a ling around the map checking for proxies, both pylons and tech. If his second unit is a stalker, it's usually an indicator that he wants to hoard gas for some other purpose, and if the third unit is also a stalker, he's up to something. Making 2-3 spines and 1 spore against 1-base play is almost always worth it. Don't overcommit to defenses, and keep in mind that, so long as you have a slight worker advantage, you should be hard pressed to lose the game. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
Also, if you see 3 pylons in their base but only 1 gateway, they are not 4 gating. If you dont see the third pylon starting before their stalker completes then either it is somewhere on the map (send first marine to scout) or they are 4 gating. The clarify: If they made a zealot thenThe third pylon should start after the stalker starts but before the stalker finishes. If they are 4 gating then the third pylon wont come until after the extra gateways. | ||
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Filter
Canada620 Posts
On March 08 2012 10:52 timmc wrote: Low level scouting is overrated because no one really knows what the hell they're doing lol. Just have at least one sentry to ff the ramp, make units and you'll be ok. A shitty 4gate isn't nearly as scary as a realy 4gate. A pro level 4gate hits before you have anything to produce off except your 1 barracks and most likely no tech. The non pro level 4gates are much shitter, like if the 3rd pylon is up in base then you'll gain an extra 20-30 seconds, same with the second gas. The biggest key to a 4gate is the third pylon. If you don't see the third pylon use your marines to scout around your base for potential forward pylons and pull them back to your bunker when his stalkers probably coming cross map. The third pylon is key, if he has 3 in his base then it's a shitty 4gate or another build. | ||
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Host-
New Zealand459 Posts
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On March 08 2012 12:26 Host- wrote: Thing about no expo by 5:30 is that dt expand, sg expand and most commonly 3gate expand. Typically though, if its not down by 5:30 you'll want 2 spines just incase. All 3 of those require him to get his second gas before the stalker comes out. A 2-gas 4 gate is going to be later and easier to hold. If he has 2 gas and 3 pylons then he is definately not going to be 4 gating. | ||
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Marooned
Norway161 Posts
On March 08 2012 12:09 Filter wrote: A shitty 4gate isn't nearly as scary as a realy 4gate. A pro level 4gate hits before you have anything to produce off except your 1 barracks and most likely no tech. The non pro level 4gates are much shitter, like if the 3rd pylon is up in base then you'll gain an extra 20-30 seconds, same with the second gas. The biggest key to a 4gate is the third pylon. If you don't see the third pylon use your marines to scout around your base for potential forward pylons and pull them back to your bunker when his stalkers probably coming cross map. The third pylon is key, if he has 3 in his base then it's a shitty 4gate or another build. Tell me more about this please, sounds interesting  | ||
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oOOoOphidian
United States1402 Posts
2 gas 4gate (zealot/sentry) is much harder to hold imo. Basically what you have to do is build 2 spines blindly, even if they end up expanding anyway. This leaves you room to drone and pump emergency lings incase they are all-inning you, or even if they are simply doing a risky 6~ sentry pressure behind an expansion. Most people will probably claim that isn't an all-in, but it's a huge commitment to sentries across the map, so if you kill all of those you've won the game right there. The 2 spines are absolutely critical (need them before 7 minutes typically) in stopping this type of attack. You simply use your lings/queens and drones to support the spines and never let them run up your ramp. When this aggression comes don't be afraid to go up to 4 spines too. Roaches in large numbers can help, but you won't be able to make them this early in the numbers needed, so lings and spines are necessary. | ||
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spatz
Germany153 Posts
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LanTAs
United States1091 Posts
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
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MadProbe
United States269 Posts
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bpat
United States157 Posts
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Mrvoodoochild1
United States1439 Posts
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Whatson
United States5356 Posts
On March 08 2012 12:52 Marooned wrote: Tell me more about this please, sounds interesting Not much to say lol, whenever you see pros 4gate, they only build two pylons in the main and time their third pylon so that they can warp in at the proxy immediately once their gateways morph into warpgates. You only need two pylons since you're cutting probes at ~20 and end up either 24 or 26 supply (depending on whether you made another stalker or not behind your first zealot and stalker). Amateur players put down more pylons in their main because they 1. forgot to cut probes 2. built more units from their initial gateway, meaning they didn't consistently chrono their core That third pylon is the 4gaters ticket to warping in as soon as possible, which is really important when you're 4gating. | ||
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Carbonthief
United States289 Posts
On March 08 2012 12:09 Filter wrote: A shitty 4gate isn't nearly as scary as a realy 4gate. A pro level 4gate hits before you have anything to produce off except your 1 barracks and most likely no tech. The non pro level 4gates are much shitter, like if the 3rd pylon is up in base then you'll gain an extra 20-30 seconds, same with the second gas. The biggest key to a 4gate is the third pylon. If you don't see the third pylon use your marines to scout around your base for potential forward pylons and pull them back to your bunker when his stalkers probably coming cross map. The third pylon is key, if he has 3 in his base then it's a shitty 4gate or another build. Actually not quite true. It doesn't matter a 3rd pylon is in his base or not. What matters is if he makes it before adding on the 3 gates, which is bad. In a solid 4 gate, after you add on your 3 gates, you can afford 2-3 pylons depending upon whether you made a 3rd unit or just went zealot stalker. Most people proxy all 2-3 pylons to increase the chances of one surviving. But it does not screw up the build order at all to make one back at home, and in fact can be beneficial if you're afraid of your artosis pylon getting sniped by a counter attack. The old standard zealot stalker 4 gate was engineered for pvp because you could build a proxy away from the ramp and 2 more right up in their face and it's almost impossible to kill the pylons that are in your face before they get a warp in, because stalkers don't actually do damage. Now it's harder to get vision of the high ground so you can stop this with forcefields. But before the patch that finally nerfed this, you could run your zealot and stalker up against a perfect forcefield and get enough vision to warp onto the high ground. And THAT is why pvp used to be exclusively 4 gate vs 4 gate. | ||
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Bellazuk
Canada146 Posts
If your zergling get killed at his ramp but u dont see him moving out, then wait 10 seconds, then go see if he expend, if so, cancel ur 4 spines, and get back to drone. If u made tons of lings cuz u over reacted and he expend, no big deal, u got 2 base and him 1, u can try to snipe some sentrys at his nat or harrass. I hope it helps. I know as a terran you need 2 least 2 bunkers but i dont know that much on timings. | ||
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Operations
115 Posts
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