EPT[G] PvT: 2gate FE
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Corsica
Ukraine1854 Posts
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zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
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TangSC
Canada1866 Posts
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Trusty
New Zealand520 Posts
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
To the first 2 replies, it's not the same as the Nani build which, IIRC, was more standard whilst this is more Stalker-centric. I 2 Gate myself in PvT (I don't feel safe with the 1 G FE) so I'm looking forward to trying this out. Thanks. Edit/ Any maps you particularly recommend this build on? | ||
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TuckerX
United States16 Posts
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GoldenH
1115 Posts
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Jotunheimr
United States36 Posts
I wouldn't say its common and its not naniwa's build iirc, but i didn't think it really has a place tho. I use it a lot on ladder for practical reasons in that it never dies against cheese if i'm really unsure (scout gets denied, etc). I think its more or less a build everyone has in the back of their head that they pull out at certain times for a kinda safe yet sorta greedy econ build. 5 gate all inning a terran can be hard too cause it isn't particular hard for the terran to drop a scan in your main if you deny scouting well (happens to me a lot in ladder) so then i have to cancel my all in and expand which sucks too. It has its purpose, it has its flaws | ||
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alexisonfire
Brazil25 Posts
You can (and I think you should) pressure while opening 1gate FE. You get 2 stalkers before warptech and then plus 3 stalkers on a proxy pylon, which is almost the same as the opening you suggest. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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alexisonfire
Brazil25 Posts
Gonna try this build on, as soon as i do, ill tell you my impressions about it! (: | ||
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Forbidden17
666 Posts
1. Not aggressive enough to do sufficient damage to justify the opening as compared to say, a 3gate FE 2. Not as economical as a 1gate FE It was a weird in between of a 1 and 3 gate FE and it was hard to find situations where you'd want an in between. It just seemed like an aggressive opening that wasn't very aggressive at all. Now comparing it the other way, as in opening 2gate FE with the intention of staying passive is counter productive since it is clearly less economical than a 1gate FE (massive probe cut plus significantly later nexus), and 1gate FE holds all sorts of aggression already. The only reason pros get screwed by early aggression is because they get very greedy in their 1gate FE variants. If you aren't comfortable dealing with early aggression, just use a safe variant? | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Forbidden17
666 Posts
On February 29 2012 05:21 Sated wrote: I've never felt safe with any variant of the 1gate FE against Barracks-pressure, so I guess you could say that this is my safe "variant". It's no use having an economic advantage if you're just going to flat-out die when Terran does certain Barracks-pressures. You could argue that I should just get better at micro'ing my units, but I doubt I have the potential to get much better than I currently am: I'm incredibly surprised that I've even made it to Diamond considering how trash I am at this game  As for the 3gate expand, I was messing around with that build a lot before seeing this build being performed because I liked the idea of being aggressive whilst expanding. Unfortunately, I've come to the conclusion that the 3gate pressure hits too late now that Warpgates have been nerfed, so it's rare that you do any damage. Still, I wouldn't say that this is between a 3gate and a 1gate because a 3gate gets tech much slower. IMO this is actually somewhere in between 1gate FE and 2gate Fast Obs, which is exactly why I like it. That's perfectly fine, everyone is free to play the style the are comfortable with. If it works well for you keep doing it! As a last attempt to convince you though, I 1gate FE or nexus first in my PvTs and honestly the micro is nothing... It has more to do with your mechanics to execute the build cleanly, and just having units at a specific time. Honestly I could comment about how you have to focus fire marauders, kite marines, pull back weak units, judge when you need to pull probes, etc... but honestly 95% of the time if you hit your timings correctly and you didn't play greedy as hell, the micro is as intensive as a-clicking and watching him run away. The micro is not hard! =] and executing the build order down to the exact second isn't hard either!! It just takes some practice ^^ | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Forbidden17
666 Posts
On February 29 2012 08:12 Sated wrote: If I was the only one having problems with this then I'd probably agree with you. But since I'm not the only one who seems to have problems with 2rax builds when doing a 1gate FE, and since I've personally seen several pro players lose to 2rax builds using a 1gate FE (including Grubby, who has a level of micro I will never achieve), I just don't think it is safe. EDIT: And it certainly isn't safe in my hands. You see pros die to 2rax because they play more greedy in several areas. I.e. Cutting units to get an earlier nexus is very common. Compare the 1gate FE's now to the ones used a year ago, there's a huge difference in how much goes to getting units early on as compared to economy. I've read the thread you linked and that is definitely a build you would have to be confident in your micro to execute. Use MC's 1gate FE, specifically the variant that chrono's out 5 units from the gateway before warpgate every time. The micro should not be very hard using that build | ||
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aznkukuboi
120 Posts
It gets you 4 stalkers, 1 zealot, and 1 sentry to do a pressure attack. You can poke up the ramp at 6 min and see what's going on. If the terran has a bunker and marines, you know it's tech. Back off, drop robom and cb obs. If terran was doing a 2 rax expo. Then you have to guage how well you think this terran can respond and just how many forcefields you can land. If the terran was doing a 3 rax all in. You can probably snipe the tech lab and back off. Just outmacro bc of economy advantage and win. I've flat out won games against a 1 rax expo terran with 2 gates. The terran will bm saying stuff about cheese, but little does he know my nexus is already up and I only have 2 gates. If the terran has bunkers, I transition into a MC 6 gate pressure, but take a 3rd while doing it. Pros of 2 gate expo: Can defend stim timing attacks. Can defend marine scv all in with proper micro and FF. Gets you more units so you can actually put pressure whereas you can't do that in 1 gate expo. Cons: Not really many, just a little less eco than 1 gate expo, but not too much. | ||
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Champ121
United Kingdom6 Posts
On February 29 2012 05:48 Forbidden17 wrote: That's perfectly fine, everyone is free to play the style the are comfortable with. If it works well for you keep doing it! As a last attempt to convince you though, I 1gate FE or nexus first in my PvTs and honestly the micro is nothing... It has more to do with your mechanics to execute the build cleanly, and just having units at a specific time. Honestly I could comment about how you have to focus fire marauders, kite marines, pull back weak units, judge when you need to pull probes, etc... but honestly 95% of the time if you hit your timings correctly and you didn't play greedy as hell, the micro is as intensive as a-clicking and watching him run away. The micro is not hard! =] and executing the build order down to the exact second isn't hard either!! It just takes some practice ^^ I agree that its easy enough to win with units chrono'd off of one gate vs a 2 rax, but now terrans have started building 2 bunkers whilst engaging, you cant both win the fight and stop the bunkers building (which the terran then runs his reinforcements into). I've been doing the 2 gate for the past 2 weeks and its much safer, it kills a 2 rax easily with the power to stop those bunkers too, all whilst getting a 27 nexus. | ||
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