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Hey guys,
So today after watching stephano at ASUS ROG, I was like wow he has quite a lot of units by 12 minutes for example, So I was like well I'm a plat player and my injects are bringing me down so it seems,
After watching a few Day9 Queen Injects videos and watching some methods of how to do it, I'm still confused on the best method to do this.
I'm a mid to high plat player in which I normally use 5, 6, 7, 8 for my queens and double click then v click to spit my larvae.
Before today this is an example of my ZvZ that I played yesturday that I managed to clutch, without paying special attention to my inject it looks like this...
http://drop.sc/118946
Now today after trying out the "backspace method" I played the computer and this is how it came out with using the backspace method...
Queen from the 4th path decides to walk across the map to my first base to try and spit larvae whilst the other queens try to run around the others... I had the same amount of queens as well as bases?
http://drop.sc/118947
here's the replay of this.. During this game I was shocked to see how much minerals I had to use as well as larvae compared to my normal games vs real people, but I don't know whether this is because I was playing more laid back or if it was because I was focusing more on my injects.
So can anyone give me some advice on which method they use and why and what is best and more viable for the higher leagues that I am aiming for.
Many thanks In advance,
Elir <3
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I use camera setting f2-f8 for my hatcheries
EDIT: I don't think anyone can you the "best" way to inject, it's going to be preference
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i don't know the best method because i think every method have some drawback.. i mean the fastest way is by far the "backspace" method but when u have more hatcheries than queens, the queens go all over the map and u loose a lot of time, especially in bigger map and at late game.. 44v-55v-66v is not fast as the backspace method but is more precise as well as hotkey the position and manually select queens.
and its difficult to say if there is a best method also because the pros theirselves use many variations..
About Stephano, for sure he has a fantastic macro and its not only about inject.. he is out of the norm also for many zerg pro to hit 200 at 12 minute mark in every single games (vs toss with IM build). Anyway i m sure he uses all the queens on a single hotkey (3 i think) and probably he uses F1,F2,F3 for camera as well and hit
F1 (main base) 3v
F2 (natural) 3v
ecc.
At least this is what i understand seeing his stream.. maybe someone can be more specific.
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... I don't know what other people do, but I hated injecting normally so I experimented a bunch... sigh. Hate telling people my tricks. I guess somebody out there has probably already found the same method and posted it somewhere though...
I call it "The Natespank Method," but I fear that somebody has already discovered it and I was just too lazy and proud to read the forums.
Bind spacebar to center camera on base.
bind all queens to a single hotkey, I use a mouse button.
1- select queens
2- since v and spacebar are adjacent, click v+spacebar simultaneously. This both brings up the inject function, and centers you on a hatchery with "one" button press. I was actually going to bind both keys to v but it wouldn't let me, but this is just as good.
3-quickly check the screen to make sure you have a queen there- then left click the center of screen. If you have no queen there, skip that hatch and remember to go back to train one for it!
4-repeat. You can hit 10 hatcheries in under 2-3 seconds if you know ahead of time that the queens are there for sure.
Spend a few minutes on a queen inject map getting used to the keypresses so you can do them quickly and accurately. Occasionally you might send a queen across the map somehow- you'll learn to recognize a misclick eventually. When you do, just select the queen control group and press "s" to stop them. Ez Pz.
Note: an inject takes slightly LESS time than it takes for a queen to get 25 energy, so that could be why your queens went x country with the backspace method: had you waited a second or two it would have been fine. It's an annoying timing.
You'll never find a better use for spacebar as zerg.
Benefit compared with some other methods:
1- you see every hatchery. This means that you wont send a queen across the map to inject and screw up your queens.
2- it's fast
3- minimal button presses, lending to speed...
4-You cycle through every single hatchery, reminding you whether they're all hotkeyed and have queens.
Using a control group plus just the minimap for injects is actually faster, but leads to queens going cross country or hatches being missed.
I forget how many seconds an inject takes, but I used to time it- I'd check the game timer so I'd know exactly when the next would come up. I think it's like 20 seconds or something. It's like timing items in Quake Live. Eventually you'll know by intuition when you need to inject, but I suggest timing to start with 
I also like to add in: after a round of injects, unless something pressing is happening, take the opportunity to spread your creep. TLO uses control groups for his tumors, but i hate that. I just click around. Note however: TLO's creep spread is CRAZY!
About there being a "best" inject method- I humbly suspect this is it
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i also do it with F buttons. if u master it it can nearly rival backspace, but much more accurate.
select all queens, press v, then hold shift => f1 f2 f3 and so on.
its friggin fast even without shift
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England2 Posts
I set my inject too 'o' and then when in game I set the queens I have too '0' and using the backspace key I can shift through hatcheries fast and easy. It takes a little while too get used to but its so worth it
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On February 25 2012 01:55 Natespank wrote:... I don't know what other people do, but I hated injecting normally so I experimented a bunch... sigh. Hate telling people my tricks. I guess somebody out there has probably already found the same method and posted it somewhere though... I call it "The Natespank Method," but I fear that somebody has already discovered it and I was just too lazy and proud to read the forums. ... + Show Spoiler +Bind spacebar to center camera on base. bind all queens to a single hotkey, I use a mouse button. 1- select queens 2- since v and spacebar are adjacent, click v+spacebar simultaneously. This both brings up the inject function, and centers you on a hatchery with "one" button press. I was actually going to bind both keys to v but it wouldn't let me, but this is just as good. 3-quickly check the screen to make sure you have a queen there- then left click the center of screen. If you have no queen there, skip that hatch and remember to go back to train one for it! 4-repeat. You can hit 10 hatcheries in under 2-3 seconds if you know ahead of time that the queens are there for sure. Spend a few minutes on a queen inject map getting used to the keypresses so you can do them quickly and accurately. Occasionally you might send a queen across the map somehow- you'll learn to recognize a misclick eventually. When you do, just select the queen control group and press "s" to stop them. Ez Pz. Note: an inject takes slightly LESS time than it takes for a queen to get 25 energy, so that could be why your queens went x country with the backspace method: had you waited a second or two it would have been fine. It's an annoying timing. You'll never find a better use for spacebar as zerg. Benefit compared with some other methods: 1- you see every hatchery. This means that you wont send a queen across the map to inject and screw up your queens. 2- it's fast 3- minimal button presses, lending to speed... 4-You cycle through every single hatchery, reminding you whether they're all hotkeyed and have queens. Using a control group plus just the minimap for injects is actually faster, but leads to queens going cross country or hatches being missed. I forget how many seconds an inject takes, but I used to time it- I'd check the game timer so I'd know exactly when the next would come up. I think it's like 20 seconds or something. It's like timing items in Quake Live. Eventually you'll know by intuition when you need to inject, but I suggest timing to start with I also like to add in: after a round of injects, unless something pressing is happening, take the opportunity to spread your creep. TLO uses control groups for his tumors, but i hate that. I just click around. Note however: TLO's creep spread is CRAZY! About there being a "best" inject method- I humbly suspect this is it
First of all, this is the same thing as the backspace method, except you rebound backspace to space. I personally use W, I like it more, but whatever.
Anyway, here's an upgraded version:
After selecting queens and hitting V, hold down shift. Then you can just space-left click-space-left click-space-left click. If you're confident in your queens being present, it's basically instant.
The key, however, is to make sure you actually look at each base and make sure there's a queen there, with enough energy. The reason the OP got queens running around everywhere is probably because one of his queens just put down a tumor and was before 25 energy when he cycled through his bases without looking.
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I use an Hybrid method. The problem is often to remember to inject more than the inject method itself. That's why I bind my hacheries on 5-6-7 and 55-v-select Queen- click. It is one of the slowest method but you can constantly check when your larva will pop. Since you have all your hatch on different hotkey it is also easier to have different rally point in case of an attack.
My Backspace is rebind to spacebar. When I have more than 3 hatcheries, I still check my inject timing with 5 but I use Backspace like method.I use space to center on an hatchery,select a queen and inject - Repeat. A bit slower but you won't have queen running all over the place.
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This topic comes up at least once a week on the forums. The truth is that there is no "best" method, having good injects is more a matter of having good awareness of when you need to do them, and being well practised at the mechanical part of executing the keystrokes to do it smoothly without having to think too much about it.
That being said, different methods have their strengths and weaknesses.
The backspace method is easy to execute mechanically, but has its shortcomings in the mid-late game as you start expanding more and might not have queens at each base or have some queens low on energy. As you have discovered, the issue of wandering queens exists. Let's say that you have 5 hatches and 5 queens - if you're really on top of injects, you'll find that queens regen slightly less than 25 energy during a larvae inject period. Let's say queen 5 has 24 energy when you spam your injections - queen 5 cannot inject hatch 5, so queen 4 starts moving there instead. Then queen 4 is busy when you inject hatch 4, so queen 3 goes there instead. This worst case scenario can continue on until queen 5 has enough energy to inject, so it'll start moving elsewhere. Hitting stop after the inject cycle doesn't help, it just means that a lot of injects won't be executed at all.
Note that a lot of Korean pros use either individual hatchery hotkeys or have saved camera positions centered on individual hatcheries. They'll jump to the hatch, box the queen then tell it to inject. They do this very fluidly and with a good sense of timing.
As for you, experiment a bit but just choose one and really master it well. That's much more important than worrying too much about the details of how you do it.
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On February 25 2012 01:55 Natespank wrote:... I don't know what other people do, but I hated injecting normally so I experimented a bunch... sigh. Hate telling people my tricks. I guess somebody out there has probably already found the same method and posted it somewhere though... I call it "The Natespank Method," but I fear that somebody has already discovered it and I was just too lazy and proud to read the forums. Bind spacebar to center camera on base. bind all queens to a single hotkey, I use a mouse button. 1- select queens 2- since v and spacebar are adjacent, click v+spacebar simultaneously. This both brings up the inject function, and centers you on a hatchery with "one" button press. I was actually going to bind both keys to v but it wouldn't let me, but this is just as good. 3-quickly check the screen to make sure you have a queen there- then left click the center of screen. If you have no queen there, skip that hatch and remember to go back to train one for it! 4-repeat. You can hit 10 hatcheries in under 2-3 seconds if you know ahead of time that the queens are there for sure. Spend a few minutes on a queen inject map getting used to the keypresses so you can do them quickly and accurately. Occasionally you might send a queen across the map somehow- you'll learn to recognize a misclick eventually. When you do, just select the queen control group and press "s" to stop them. Ez Pz. Note: an inject takes slightly LESS time than it takes for a queen to get 25 energy, so that could be why your queens went x country with the backspace method: had you waited a second or two it would have been fine. It's an annoying timing. You'll never find a better use for spacebar as zerg. Benefit compared with some other methods: 1- you see every hatchery. This means that you wont send a queen across the map to inject and screw up your queens. 2- it's fast 3- minimal button presses, lending to speed... 4-You cycle through every single hatchery, reminding you whether they're all hotkeyed and have queens. Using a control group plus just the minimap for injects is actually faster, but leads to queens going cross country or hatches being missed. I forget how many seconds an inject takes, but I used to time it- I'd check the game timer so I'd know exactly when the next would come up. I think it's like 20 seconds or something. It's like timing items in Quake Live. Eventually you'll know by intuition when you need to inject, but I suggest timing to start with I also like to add in: after a round of injects, unless something pressing is happening, take the opportunity to spread your creep. TLO uses control groups for his tumors, but i hate that. I just click around. Note however: TLO's creep spread is CRAZY! About there being a "best" inject method- I humbly suspect this is it
Haha "The Natespank method" good joke there xD
I dont think theres a "best method" but I like binding the queens to hotkeys as most because u can used your binded queens for defending easily.
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I use the layered cameras from Darkgrid. Basically save each camera location on a hatch then select all your queens and que up inject with shift then tap each camera hotkey and click the hatcheries to inject. I have my cameras on Alt+Q, Alt+W, Alt+A, Alt+D. Once you get the hang of it you can inject as fast as the backspace but you can easily skip a queenless hatch.
Darkgrid: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257590
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I do backspace method for early to mid game. Select all queens, tap spacebar, hold shift+press V, click hatch in center of screen, spacebar, click, spacebar, click. Once I get 6 hatches I move over to a different kind of injecting.
I tap spacebar (rehotkeyed backspace), dragbox queen, inject. Imagine spacebar with thumb, drag box queen, v+click hatch (always in center of screen). Its really quick and easy.
Also, I suggest always put your macro hatches next to your high energy queens. This way you can double inject (lowers energy on your queen and its a crap ton of larva).
Now the backspace dragbox queen technique is good but with macro hatches you have to be aware you will have a lot of hatches without queens next to them.
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Watching Stephano's stream, i believe (99% sure) he simply scroll using the minimap to reach the location, box the queen and inject; probably one of the most inefficient in terms of actions required, but he is fast and used to it, so that doesn't even matter. This should give you an idea that there is no best method.
Personally i hotkey Hatch+Queen for my main, natural, 3rd on F1 F2 F3 respectively.
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Really it's less about the method for doing it and more about doing it on time. This is something I pride myself in, and it's actually something that is very annoying with in game mechanics. If you are on top of your injects, then you will know it because your queen will be at 23-24 energy when it comes time to do another inject. This is so frustrating, because you have to sit around for another second to start the cycle over.
Also, I find it is more important to even delay your natural's cycle until you can sync it up with your main. It becomes expontentially harder to continuosly be checking injects when all your hatcheries are off cycle, so get them synced up!
I've gotten used to a couple methods of injecting. One of the quick ways (if you're precise) is to use the minimap. Honestly, you should just group all your queens into one group. While this provides less control for defense, it makes the task of injecting very simple. I've gotten used to using my Mouse 4 side key (rebound to backspace key) to cycle through, so all it comes down to is pushing 5 (my queen hotkey) and then pushing mouse 4 + v + left click, very fast and fluid.
You need to just pick a style and get fast at it, but most importantly work on your natural sense of when injects are needed. The in game notifcation helps amazingly for this.
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I'm a medium master player and i switch my hatcheries from backspace to the spacebar and put all my queens on 5. I also use grid so its just a quick spacebar v spacebar v spacebar v. To me its the quickest and most effective
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+ Show Spoiler +On February 25 2012 01:55 Natespank wrote:... I don't know what other people do, but I hated injecting normally so I experimented a bunch... sigh. Hate telling people my tricks. I guess somebody out there has probably already found the same method and posted it somewhere though... I call it "The Natespank Method," but I fear that somebody has already discovered it and I was just too lazy and proud to read the forums. Bind spacebar to center camera on base. bind all queens to a single hotkey, I use a mouse button. 1- select queens 2- since v and spacebar are adjacent, click v+spacebar simultaneously. This both brings up the inject function, and centers you on a hatchery with "one" button press. I was actually going to bind both keys to v but it wouldn't let me, but this is just as good. 3-quickly check the screen to make sure you have a queen there- then left click the center of screen. If you have no queen there, skip that hatch and remember to go back to train one for it! 4-repeat. You can hit 10 hatcheries in under 2-3 seconds if you know ahead of time that the queens are there for sure. Spend a few minutes on a queen inject map getting used to the keypresses so you can do them quickly and accurately. Occasionally you might send a queen across the map somehow- you'll learn to recognize a misclick eventually. When you do, just select the queen control group and press "s" to stop them. Ez Pz. Note: an inject takes slightly LESS time than it takes for a queen to get 25 energy, so that could be why your queens went x country with the backspace method: had you waited a second or two it would have been fine. It's an annoying timing. You'll never find a better use for spacebar as zerg. Benefit compared with some other methods: 1- you see every hatchery. This means that you wont send a queen across the map to inject and screw up your queens. 2- it's fast 3- minimal button presses, lending to speed... 4-You cycle through every single hatchery, reminding you whether they're all hotkeyed and have queens. Using a control group plus just the minimap for injects is actually faster, but leads to queens going cross country or hatches being missed. I forget how many seconds an inject takes, but I used to time it- I'd check the game timer so I'd know exactly when the next would come up. I think it's like 20 seconds or something. It's like timing items in Quake Live. Eventually you'll know by intuition when you need to inject, but I suggest timing to start with I also like to add in: after a round of injects, unless something pressing is happening, take the opportunity to spread your creep. TLO uses control groups for his tumors, but i hate that. I just click around. Note however: TLO's creep spread is CRAZY! About there being a "best" inject method- I humbly suspect this is it
This is essentially what I do. The only problems that I really come across is when I've got a macro hatch I don't have a queen for, or a newly created hatch halfway across the map. I'm getting to the point where I can determine which base I'm at pretty easily. Not as fast as most of the pros I'm sure, but not at all slow.
I also use the tilde key (`) for all my queens, having rebound 0 to that. Old school WoW trick I used for taunting  . This also makes it easy for me to use those queens for defense when necessary. Again, not super fast or super efficient, but it works pretty well for me, and my play has gotten better in general.
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Backspace method is currently seen as the best method atm. My backspace method isn't the best so I tend to do a mix between that and minimap. (My injects often hurt my games.) Just keep practicing it as when you finally get it down you're injects will be very fast. Its very frustrating when queens start walking away (I'm dealing with this right now) but just pay attention. If one starts to walk grab it and micro it back.
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Queens walking off happens sometimes, but if you pay attention you'll see it coming. When you notice it, select the queen group and just hit s. My queens never get more than an inch or two from the hatches that way.
God... why am I on this forum? I have math to study... O.o
Anyway, the causes of wandering queens are thus:
1- having a queen inject a hatchery she's not next to. When using backspace, skip the hatches that are vacant.
2- having a queen who IS adjacent lack the energy for an inject- then a nearby queen will hike over.
3- misclicking.
All 3 you can learn to spot, and stop the wandering before it becomes a problem.
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I also use the tilde key (`) for all my queens, having rebound 0 to that. Old school WoW trick I used for taunting . This also makes it easy for me to use those queens for defense when necessary. Again, not super fast or super efficient, but it works pretty well for me, and my play has gotten better in general.
I did exactly that for a bit except that with my keyboard I accidentally press tilde sometimes when reaching for 1; but yeah, control group 0 bound to a reachable key ftw!
Using a mouse button, mouse 3 or whatever, just keeps it from my other hotkeys. Don't want thos queens rushing into battle now...
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Search function OP. This was discussed at length during beta, then AGAIN when key-binds became customizable.
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I think as the game progresses, people will see benefits of having more control groups available for army (multi-prong stuff) and, as a result, will move away from having each hatch or each queen on a separate control group. The backspace method works well in this scenario, just always being aware of wandering queens, which is easily solved / avoided.
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I used to play Zerg. Now that I play Terran, I use the "backspace" method (rebound on spacebar) for both mules and supply depots.
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I have all of my queens set to the same hotkey. I also have all of my bases camera locations saved to F2, F3, F4, etc. I'll use my camera and check on bases a lot, so when I see a hatch not injected, or see the notification that larva have been birthed on the left, I select my queen hotkey and just check my bases and inject what is necessary. According to SC2Gears, my average inject gap is 6-10 seconds this way. This might not work for everyone, but it works for me. Experiment and see what works for you.
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I have all queens on the same hotkey and inject by clicking a hatchery's location on the minimap. This has the benefit of not needing to move the camera away from the action.
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I bound base camera to mouse button 4(side mouse button). Now I can just MB4 V, MB4 V, etc,
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I don't always play zerg but when I do I use hatches on 1Hotkey 1 hotkey for queens and camera jumps rebound f1-f5 for base areas. The remaining 3 jump keys set to middle map areas when Injecting and engaging
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I've tried all the purposed methods. The trick that worked for me is binding all queens to one hotkey. All hatches to one hotkey. And use the camera saving (f1,f2,f3,f4) to swap between bases. This allows you to spam between your bases and constantly be aware of where you are macro wise. It'll develop habits for jumping quickly to marine drops and such as well. Sure this isnt the fastest method, but it's only maybe a second slower. But it is the most reliable (no queen confusion walking across the map). It also allows you to expand far away when you need to without worrying that u wont have screw up your queens. When you want to build drones from just one particular base you can jump to that base select it and make the drones. This saves you from having drones walking to secret expansions or armies popping out of secret expansions. You don't have to worry about lining up your injects with all your hatches. You go directly to the bases that need it or constantly cycle through camera to check your larva injects.
The best tip you need to know is that you don't need to inject all your bases late game. You just need to inject well off of 4-5 hatches to support a huge army. But injecting 4-5 bases doesn't entail 5 actual bases. Two of those can be macro hatches. So really it's f1,f2,f3 (3bases) that you have to scan through saving you a lot of time.
Practice it. You'll like screen hotkeys when you finally use it.
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I think most people tend to favor binding queens on 1 hotkey and using the backspace method for whatever key they bind it to. I like having my space bar binded to a camera hotkey, so I don't use it. If you're not using "w" or "e", i see nothing wrong with putting queens on "w" and the base camera hotkey on "e". it's closer to your fingers, and you get another hotkey essentially (since not many people actually use 890 on their default locations, you rebind one of these to "w")
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I don't know how most Zerg choose to do their injects, but myself personally I bind my main to 3, natural to 4, third to six and every other hatch I leave unbound. I bind all my hatches together to 5 and lay my macro hatch either right near my main or natural. Personally, I always find my injects end and start in a order. I bind all my queens to 7 and spread them accordingly to each hatch, from there it's just a matter of selecting my hatches and hitting 7+V onto each hatch. Works well for me and I am usually always on top of my injects.
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Learn to do it with the mini-map so you never have to change screens... a sc1 player that has not switched did this method, and afterwards I adopted it when I was still playing zerg.
And by that I mean hotkey all your queens to one key, and learn how to click on the hatcheries on the minimap in rapid-order , the queens never run around, move, etc, and if you're accurate, you always hit.
This saves you a lot of time and lets you focus on more important things (presumably creep spread/following mutalisks, etc)
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I changed my backspace to "q", and made control group 0 on the ` key, so all I do is press ` then v -> shift, then spam q click like a madman. Works like a charm
Of course, you could probably do it another way, I just find it easy for me. If you don't want to lose queens later on, you could go ` r, which would burrow your queens - nobody's going to scan for a queen, or possibly even think to. I hate losing queens myself :L
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EPT
