[G] Terran Mechanics/Improvement Guide - Page 4

Yoshi Kirishima

United States10292 Posts

May 18 2012 06:09 GMT

#61

OMFG!!!

VIDEOS!

NEW CONTENT!

NEW POSSIBLE GUIDES!

:D :D :D :D

So is this your "main" thread? Perhaps this should be moved to strategy, and the other one in strategy closed, or just copy paste all the stuff here and switch it with that of the other thread...? xD

omg even video on TvP! This really is gold information. I can't believe this guide doesn't have 100k+ views already

Yoshi Kirishima

United States10292 Posts

May 23 2012 20:02 GMT

#62

I'm sorry if i missed it, but in your TvP Punishing Expo Builds

In the last game on Cloud Kingdom, you said that, after seeing him mining only 100 gas before stopping, it was important to put an Ebay down to block his natural.

I don't think you explained why that was exactly important? What does 100 gas only mean? It could be a zealot 4 gate, but then why would you want to block his natural? Or is it because 100 gas allows exactly for 1 stalker and warpgate research, meaning his expo will be earlier and thus greedier, and that's why you have the ebay there, to slow him down?

gfever

United States180 Posts

May 23 2012 23:41 GMT

#63

There is only one possibility that a 100 gas mined can only occur and that is a 1gate quicker expo. Even if it was a 4gate zealot pressure it won't do anything since all i need is get my marines behind my wall and repair and lol the whole way. Thats saying he breaks my first bunker. Only reasonable possibility is for a quick expo into only 1 stalker into a quicker 2nd gas with warp research. Other tech options would be too slow by this time.

Yoshi Kirishima

United States10292 Posts

May 23 2012 23:54 GMT

#64

thanks for clearing that up for me!

Yoshi Kirishima

United States10292 Posts

May 24 2012 20:54 GMT

#65

Hi again, I have a new question regarding TvZ Mech vs Infestors.

You did not seem to check his bases thoroughly with your Banshees to see if he was going mutas or infestors. Is it not necessary to do so?

You have your ebay starting at about 12:00. What if he gets mutas out by 11 minutes?

Basically, how did you decide to go straight for siege tanks and skip AA? Is it simply because if he tries to tech to mutas, you can easily push with 4 thors, hellions, banshees, and win, and you assume that he knew that and will go infestors?

Or maybe, if he gets mutas he is forced to defend vs the hellion/banshees, because if he tries to harass you, you will see it and have turrets up in time?

Thanks in advance!

gfever

United States180 Posts

May 25 2012 02:15 GMT

#66

I am about 20-30 secs late from where the ebay should be. Mutas can't be out by 11 mins since he made a batch of roaches early then made another batch of roaches to defend my hellion harass. My push was hoping to kill his 3rd b4 his mutas pop out. If he did go mutas my entire push would have been crushed and I would definately be behind. What I should have done was take 3 scvs with the army and make proxy turrets with my push. I sort of took a gamble to be honest. I normal have one thor with my army and a turret or 2 with my push but since that push put me in an offset I decided to make the push without thors. If it didn't work I would play very very defensive thru out the whole game.

IMBADYEP

United States16 Posts

June 03 2012 17:51 GMT

#67

What are your thoughts on these two TvP builds?

Grubby vs Thorzain

I like Thorzain's build particularly because I've been seeing protoss go collosus a lot as of late. The 1rax expand into 2reactor + 1 tech lab seems to be weaker to collosus as marines just melt against them. Probably the biggest downside of this build looks like you would be very vulnerable to proxy voidray/4gate all-ins.

Bomber vs MC

Bomber's build is just slightly different than what I've seen you do in your vods. Bomber chooses to get only 1 gas after his 3rax, and then gets his 2nd right after he starts stim. This allows him to get more bunkers up and seems to only put him slightly behind with his factory and +1 timings.

Sennin

Belgium50 Posts

June 05 2012 19:04 GMT

#68

I've found this guide on reddit (thank you Yoshi) and I see this thread is still semi active. I'm a "high" gold player (I say "high" since it really doesn't matter) and I wonder: are these builds (mech TvT one especially) more directed to higher leagues or do you think it's better to start using them using now in the lower leagues? TvP I feel comfortable now I practiced FilterSC's build/ benchmarks but I noticed that I should play other styles in TvZ and TvT.

I have learned a lot already, I'm playing with sound off now and recently I've had close to no supply block the entire way. So thank you very much :D

huehuehuehue

Estonia455 Posts

June 05 2012 19:23 GMT

#69

On June 06 2012 04:04 Sennin wrote:
I've found this guide on reddit (thank you Yoshi) and I see this thread is still semi active. I'm a "high" gold player (I say "high" since it really doesn't matter) and I wonder: are these builds (mech TvT one especially) more directed to higher leagues or do you think it's better to start using them using now in the lower leagues? TvP I feel comfortable now I practiced FilterSC's build/ benchmarks but I noticed that I should play other styles in TvZ and TvT.

I have learned a lot already, I'm playing with sound off now and recently I've had close to no supply block the entire way. So thank you very much :D

Sure you can use these builds in the lower leagues. But there is an argument for cheesing/allining to learn the game, check out this blog by Artosis for example.

Sennin

Belgium50 Posts

June 05 2012 19:48 GMT

#70

On June 06 2012 04:23 huehuehuehue wrote:

Show nested quote +

Sure you can use these builds in the lower leagues. But there is an argument for cheesing/allining to learn the game, check out this blog by Artosis for example.

Yeah I've thought about that. Might be good to grind basic marine micro into me with just 3 rax scv all-in every time. I might look into that, but just having a long term plan to learn macro might be good.

Yoshi Kirishima

United States10292 Posts

June 07 2012 06:33 GMT

#71

I think basically, you should stick with macro, but heck if you get bored of SC2 like maybe in a long ladder session or such and want to cheese, go for it. Practicing all-in/cheese is good too

just have fun i'd say.

Also I agree, the builds work at any league. Will they be the best way to promote? Probably not, but it'll pay off in the long run. Every time you lose to something, figure out how to beat it next time, then you eventually have less and less "holes" in your play. Then you become a really solid player. It'll take a while to learn how to defend so many different kinds of cheese/all-in/1-base attacks with TvT 1 rax expand for example, and even longer once you get high leveled and have to really micro well, but eventually it should just click and then you can feel confident ^^

and it's even easier cus gfever basically covers almost all kinds of things you need to worry about in his TvT guide + TvT how to defend your 1 rax expand youtube video

Chaggi

Korea (South)1936 Posts

June 07 2012 06:45 GMT

#72

I've encountered this problem a lot (Diamond~ range) and not sure what the correct response is...

Generally I open with a super aggressive 5 rax build in TvP and depending on the amount of damage, it'll delay my and the Toss's tech by a decent amount

Now, if I'm switching over my Starport to a reactor, and I see the FIRST Collossi come out, and I'm on 2 base still, what should I start making? Medivacs or Vikings? I've seen both from pros and I'm not sure what the best one really is. I've also had success and lost with both too.

gfever

United States180 Posts

June 07 2012 07:25 GMT

#73

Srry imbadyep, I've watched way too much pro replays to watch another. I do 3 rax with 2 reactors and tech lab. And no it won't be weak aganist colo. Its actually very very good aganist colo. You can easily take a 3rd expo with even or less army. What I do is position my units ready to drop or flank and snipe expos if he ever wants to move out. By the time he is halfway across the map he has lost 2 expos if he wants to go for me. So this requires 3-4 angles of attack to keep the protoss in their base. If you however lose even 1 medivac is can be game over for you. This is a very razor thin tactic but it works if executed right. Their is no way protoss can get their 3rd at the same time you get yours. I don't even make any vikings till 14-15 mins aganist 3 colo but by that time I have 2 starports with reactors.

Bomber's build is about the same as mine but I get a 1+ attack timing i could possiblity do if I find that the protoss is too greedy. My medviacs r about 20-30 later from standard but i get 1+ attack which I think is more benefical. Aganist an expo build from the protoss you should only make 2 bunkers max + a wall. There is no other reason to make any more than 2.

@Sennin, I recommend you find a safe build to execute that you feel comfortable. Learn the timings by that strat. Only until you have the mechanics to handle more harder razor thin strats then can you switch. But the switch will be very very dramatic in gameplay and you WILL lose a lot of games. But you have to look thru the replay and plug those holes and don't forget "potential" holes as in he could've killed you with this one strat but he didn't do it this game. These strats are very very hard to pull off. Everything needs to be down to a T atleast for the first 10 mins. Losing 1 unit can cost you a game or missing a depot for a wall.

@Chaggi, its based on tempo play. Find a strat that can gain you a tempo advantage and keep it. i'lI update the guide explaining tempo cuz i think its a very important thing ppl don't understand enough. Your opening gives you a tempo advantage for sure but once colo r out the protoss gains the tempo advantage. Reason why I perfer allowing my opponent to gain the tempo advantage early game then later I claim the tempo and keep it thru out the entire game. Read my reply to IMBADYEP to understand a bit of medivac play. If you did 5 rax it depends if the protoss actually defended your attack with 2 or 3+ gates b4 starting robo. If its later then you can do the medivac b4 vikings but otherwise you are going to have to bunker repair and use the bunkers to cushion ur vikings.

chambertin

United States1704 Posts

June 13 2012 20:40 GMT

#74

Thank you so much for this again. I've been practicing using your builds for the past month and a half and I feel so much more confident.

I have a quick question though: Do you still recommend playing on mute for an extended period?

I don't see why your opinion would have changed but I'm a bit scared T_T...
I'm also a tad curious as to what others think... ???

Best guide on TL. Peace.

Yoshi Kirishima

United States10292 Posts

June 18 2012 18:00 GMT

#75

Starting on June 21, 2012, I'll begin streaming on weekdays from around 1pm to 10pm EST.
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/gfever

OMG YES! SO MUCH! Hope you get back into high masters or even GM on KR :D

gfever

United States180 Posts

June 18 2012 22:12 GMT

#76

@chambertin, I still would play on mute until you feel you arn't missing depots often and are looking at the minimap more frequently. If your under high masters you should keep your mute, until you hit high master/GM you can start playing with sound. But even at high masters I recommend keeping it, for practice purposes.

@Yoshi, ya I am getting my new computer on wednesday and hopefully no parts are dead and I manage to put it together without problems I can stream a day earlier. Gunna start playing again. Season 6 I started to play on and off so I'm have to sharpen back my skills.

chambertin

United States1704 Posts

June 20 2012 11:47 GMT

#77

On June 19 2012 03:00 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:

Show nested quote +

OMG YES! SO MUCH! Hope you get back into high masters or even GM on KR :D

Seconded ...

I hope you can get up some reps of TvT Mech vs Mech. Do you still go dropship style in that instance?

simian_sc

United States91 Posts

June 20 2012 14:04 GMT

#78

Thanks for this guide, gfever! It is always nice to get different perspectives from high level players. Personally I am Gold Terran and struggling to get my mechanics down. I am pretty decent with my micro. My problem is my macro slips a lot when I get into an engagement simply because I forget. My question is, what would you do to remedy a problem like this?

Also, how did you practice early on, to get to masters? I am trying to get down a good practice regimen but am finding it difficult and wonder if I am getting the most out of my practice sessions. Currently I am just trying to get one solid build down (Bomber's gasless 1 rax FE into 3 rax bio), so I will practice that in a custom game about 5 games before I ladder just to make sure I am hitting all my benchmarks. And every night I try to play around on Dargleins Micro Trainer a bit to make sure I'm improving my micro. Does this sound like a decent practice regimen? How can I change it to better improve mechanics?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks, Simian

gfever

United States180 Posts

June 20 2012 14:52 GMT

#79

@simian_sc, b4 I played starcraft I played AOE at age 10, I learned to macro at a very young age since AOE is such a macro centric game. I learned at a very early age that the more workers you had generally meant I'd have a larger army. So even if my micro wasn't even there at all, I just make more buildings and make more stuff and esentically "1 A" my way in AOE. I picked up AOM after 5 years of AOE and that was the first time I learned about build orders and strategy and micro. When SC2 came out I already understand a lot of basic concepts of macro/micro and just transitioned that into SC2. I was also more mature so I took this fresh game from a new perspective and actually spend my time wisely and worked on good habits. I broke down my game many times. Reworked my hotkeys numerous times to get it to a comfortable position. AOE/AOM was not a very APM extensive game. I used multitask trainer until I could scout and macro without losing the scout once, I played aganist 2 insane computers until I could beat them. First thing I realized I needed to do was learn and perfect the A move. Watched a ton of gsl and streams and tried to learn as much as I could in a short amount of time. I did 111 banshee opening into expo in all MUs since it was the only one I knew that can counter many of the strats that were current in the early days of sc2. I got into masters with just that strategy. Then I started to mix in 2 rax 1 gas expo in tvp, 2 rax gasless expo tvz, 1 rax fe into 3 more raxs in tvt. Sooner or later I wanted to find the perfect strat that I can use in ladder and can be my strongest greediest build possible for each MU and that is when I started testing a lot. I only did testing in each MU one at a time. So I started testing in TvZ first with mech, then transtioned my TvT to mech aswell. TvP kinda kept the same but I went towards more harder counter flanks and expo deny positional play. During this entire time of testing I tried to push myself to do more effective actions. All in all you need to spend a lot of time training to get to the point I currently am. Tho I do take on and off seasons here and there now since I've kinda explored everything possible and I am kinda waiting for the metagame to catch up to me. And so far its kinda happening, on the KR server terrans are finally doing hellion banshee openings but again they arn't doing it effectively enough.

simian_sc

United States91 Posts

June 20 2012 16:29 GMT

#80

OK gotcha. So basically what I am getting is, you messed with and practiced everything you could get your hands on as much as possible until you knew that stuff blind. And the rest fell into place and became more evident once you got the macro side of things down?

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