[D] What I Learned from Stephano vs MakaPrime - Page 2

On December 13 2011 12:48 Niteblade_ wrote:
Hopefully this post isn't to irrelevent, but if you check out the games from the Blizzard cup, in group A, MVP demolished Stephano when he used this build with a Blue flame hellion/marine timing attack. Completely destroyed it (don't have the video, but thats what the recaps say lol). Anyone who has viewed the game can perhaps comment more, but it might have entirely destroyed this build once people catch on XD

On December 14 2011 05:37 Moosegills wrote:
So your first thread gets closed for self promotion so then you make a second one without all your label b.s. on it. Interesting...

On December 13 2011 06:40 Lebzetu wrote:
The whole entire timing notes section is completely wrong, and I will explain why:
Timings, under any circumstances, should never be replicated. I am saying this because it is very very rare to find yourself in the exact situation of stephano whereas you cant copy his timings. There are so many branches and deviations of a build that it is just flat out impossible to memorize them all. You just reviewed his timings which is completely useless, as you will never ever find ourself in the EXACT same situation as he was in that game. The only timings anyone should ever use is like 15 hatch, because if you 15hatch then thats too early to have a deviation (but sometimes it is, a protoss can pylon block your hatchery for example) so even then, writing down timings is completely useless.

On December 15 2011 00:36 decaf wrote:
I don't want to sound rude, but everything you do seems to be aiming for the most attention you can get, helping people doesn't seem to be your main goal. It kinda starts annoying me and it really takes away from what you're saying, because what you say doesn't sound genuine at all. I don't want to discourage you from posting guides or anything but I think you got the wrong intention. To me it seems like you just hit GM on NA (which isn't a very hard thing to do) and now you want everyone to know about it and think you being GM backs up everything you say, while that's not true at all (especially not on NA, no diss intended). People including their names in the headlines and making huge introductions about themselves are just in for the attention and not because they really want to help people. I'm not sure if that really is the case but that's how you come across. Maybe you should take a step back and slow down and not float this forum with low quality analyses.
At least that's my opinion about it and hope you can get somethign out of my feedback. What you've written there could have been written about anything else. The main point in monk's thread about the brown vs losira(?) game is to point out the unique things only brown does. He pointed out a way of playing protoss defensively with ridiculous expand timings and gave reasons why Brown did certain things and how it was possible in the first place. What you got here is just a list of timings that really doesn't say much at all.

On December 15 2011 00:56 TangSC wrote:

The thread contains both timing and execution considerations that players looking to improve can apply to their games, as well as analysis of the important tools and stylistic choices that have given Stephano such success. If you actually took the time to read the thread instead of skimming over the timings and concluding in seconds that the information isn't useful, you'd certainly see that it is not a "low quality analysis", it is invaluable information that I have personally included in my play and reaped significant benefits. Further, this is not a GUIDE thread, it's a DISCUSSION thread - which means I include the relevant notes and things I took away from the game to help others learn and discuss. If you want to post criticism, I recommend actually reading the thread, watching the game, and making intelligent/helpful suggestions that others will benefit from rather than unprofessional/personal insults.
EDIT: You're the only one who has mentioned that I've been GM. If you don't think my threads are a credible source of information because reaching GM on NA "isn't a very hard thing to do" then that's your opinion. However to imply - after the countless hours I've put into creating and editing guides, answering questions, and streaming tutorials - that all I care about is attention is both incorrect and blatantly rude.

On December 15 2011 01:56 decaf wrote:

Sure is a rude statement to make, but considering one of your [G] or [D] has already been closed with a statement like: "cut the self-promotion, please" by a mod I don't think it's very far-fetched. I only mentioned you being GM because you do so in the titles when you release guides which I find extremely prepotent (but there's many people shamelessly slapping their names onto things which they supposedly "invented"). And for the record I did read the OP, but there's not very much to get out of it since it simply feels like there's missing something. You mention a lot of general things which don't really forward the discussion and then you leave everything unclear because you don't really draw any conclusions from it.
I simply don't find it very useful and to me it seems to be just an opportunity for you to get your name out in some way. That's just how I feel about it and maybe it's just me. Not trying to discourage you, in fact I hope you can get somethign out of my feedback.

On December 15 2011 06:57 IPA wrote:
Tang, you should have included Naniwa in the title of this thread. If so, millions of dullards would open "discussion" with pitchforks and fanboy hats. That would be my only tip for your next discussion/guide.

On December 15 2011 08:48 kcdc wrote:
People's problem with this thread is that it purports to be "lessons learned" from analyzing Stephano's ZvT style in a game against MakaPrime, but it's actually Tang writing about how Tang likes to play infestor+ling vs T.

For example, Stephano opens hatch first. About this, Tang writes:



So the lesson Tang learned from Stephano's hatch first opening was that hatch first makes no difference. That makes sense.

He then goes on to talk a little bit about general ZvT tips--things like "pull enough drones to defend without losing a lot," "spread creep," "be active with your zerglings," "spread overlords for vision," and "delay or deny expansions." These are the new ideas that Tang learned from Stephano that inspired the post? I don't play Zerg or Terran and I knew all that stuff. One suspects that these are just Tang's general tips, and he wanted to start a new thread where he could share them.

And those suspicions are immediately confirmed with Tang finishes his post with a list of general ZvT tips that weren't even featured in the replay he picked.

This thread isn't analysis of a pro game to glean some new, useful information. This is a general advice thread with only obvious advice. And given the poster's TL history, it feels like the goal of the post was self-promotion.

On December 15 2011 07:00 TangSC wrote:

Haha as soon as I run into naniwa on ladder and beat him with my 8minute overlord drop, you'll see a thread!