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Who is this guy?
Hello everyone, i'm ZyM, a 16 years old Italian Grandmaster Zerg player. I've been lurking here on TL for a while I haven't been able to contribute to the community with anything worthwile until now.
A good building placement helps. Wow very useful guide..
Yeh yeh. Its not groundbreaking. But please, stay a while and listen. We are all familiar with the new zerg walls that prevent hellion from going directly into the main in ZvT, right? There's not much else to say about building placement in that match-up, you can hide tech, stop hellions and... well that's it. If you're extra careful you can place your tech in the same spot and protect everything with fewer spines, but there's a big problem here: marines are ranged.
This is why what i'll be showing you in just a second, lovely readers, works best in ZvP.
So? You're wasting my time.
We, poor Zerg players have the habit of losing our misplaced tech to warp prisms drops... Those Zealots and DTs +3 are hard to stop! How many times you lost a game because of your 10 corruptors popping out just as your greater spire was being sniped? Marines are ranged but DTs are not! Yay!
That is the main reason why I've come up with a way to hopefully slow down those frustrating warp prism shenanigans. Ladies and gentlemen, I present you a ZyM's Fortress! :D
![[image loading]](http://i43.tinypic.com/fn9y14.png)
You can do this in many different ways. You can use your spawning pool (this forces your fortress in your main) or you could put it anywhere else. You can also use minerals patches to close gaps, but remember to move away your drones when they're too low or else you'll leave your tech unprotected. Walls work too, just be careful not to leave any space free in between buildings if there's no anti-air nearby to avoid having zealots INSIDE your fortress. Geysers are also very good but are kinda tricky to use.
It's still possible for the protoss player to snipe your buildings by investing a lot more into it (protoss players generally prefer having those 10 supply in their deathball during the engagement, you know...)
You can use spores instead of an overseer if you like. You save 50 gas but you're more vulnerable to DTs.. your choice.
Generally speaking, don't build your fortress near cliffs since that makes it terribly vulnerable to big packs of blink stalkers jumping into your main.
This is hardly helpful
 That makes me a sad panda.
I'll add some replays and more pics as soon as I find them. If you have any question please ask.
Examples of aviable setups
Minerals:
![[image loading]](http://i43.tinypic.com/117eg3r.png)
Cheap:
![[image loading]](http://i42.tinypic.com/sdefyd.png)
Examples of bad setups
To be efficient, you have to use few, high HP, cheap buildings.
![[image loading]](http://i42.tinypic.com/mw7cph.png)
Replays
Buildings
Spawning Pool: Having 1000 hp the spawning pool is one of the hardest zerg buildings to kill. It's also very cheap BUT it takes a long time to build. Overall, it's a decent building to use if your playstyle doesn't involve zerglings in the later stages of the game.
Roach Warren: Cheap but risky. Best used when roaches are not part of your lategame composition.
Evolution Chambe: Best building ever. Cheap, fast to build, 750 HP
Hatchery: Using your macro hatch to block your spire is good. High HP and costs only minerals.
Everything else: You can use your infestation pit if you want...its just more expensive and risky. It depends a lot on how the game went.
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I came here expecting an awesome way to protect your spines in mid-game/late-game...
And all I got was a pack of zerg buildings with a trollface on it :/.
Not quite thread worthy IMO, but could be posted in the Tips and Tricks thread.
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Well no Roaches/Hydras/Infestors for you, enjoy my Voidrays
Greetings, Protoss.
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Slightly obvious yes, but i suppose you do see a lot of late game spire snipes via DT so this could be something that you use on occasion, especially if its late game and you already no he has DT's. Cheers 
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On November 30 2011 22:35 Ahelvin wrote:
I came here expecting an awesome way to protect your spines in mid-game/late-game...
And all I got was a pack of zerg buildings with a trollface on it :/.
Not quite thread worthy IMO, but could be posted in the Tips and Tricks thread.
I agree, but I will add more infos later so that it turns out a little bit more intresting and useful.
On November 30 2011 22:36 rEalGuapo wrote:
Well no Roaches/Hydras/Infestors for you, enjoy my Voidrays
Greetings, Protoss.
Well yeah, but voidrays kill buildings slower (they take time to charge) than dts and zealots and are much more visible on the map. And you can do that even when buildings are not stacked like that :/
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A lot of juicy targets surrounding your spire. I'm very happy if I'm able to snipe almost any of those structures.
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I think it could be a good idea to apply at mid/late game, i have just to keep it in mind during the game :D
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On November 30 2011 22:36 rEalGuapo wrote:
Well no Roaches/Hydras/Infestors for you, enjoy my Voidrays
Greetings, Protoss.
You think sending in a few voidrays to clean up clumped buildings is smart? Here's a hint, voidrays are pretty cost inefficient when hydra+infestor is on the field. If you're able to focus down that many tech structures with VRs...it means youre already in a position where you've won the game, so it doesnt matter anyway. Where is his army while you are focusing down the "fortress"? Is it killing your base? Is it dead? Does it stand by and let you do this while your ball fights elsewhere? No multi task from the zerg? I dunno, I don't think your criticism is enough to keep him and others from setting his buildings up in that way. Sounds like you think seeing this simcity is an automatic win via VRs..not following the logic
OP you should make it more like a proper guide where you include your favorite set ups that are successful in EU GM. Use pictures, be very detailed, etc. It isn't totally helpful to just tell people to have good simcity. On each map show multiple examples of exact building placements that are optimal in the majority of situations, then I think it might be somewhat helpful.
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On November 30 2011 22:40 Champ24 wrote:
A lot of juicy targets surrounding your spire. I'm very happy if I'm able to snipe almost any of those structures.
It's not like you can't do that when buildings aren't stacked. Rebuilding a roach warren is kinda different than rebuilding a greater spire.
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On November 30 2011 22:44 ZyM wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 22:40 Champ24 wrote:
A lot of juicy targets surrounding your spire. I'm very happy if I'm able to snipe almost any of those structures. It's not like you can't do that when buildings aren't stacked. Rebuilding a roach warren is kinda different than rebuilding a greater spire.
Agreed, but if I'm in a situation late game to be able to snipe your tech I'm likely already in a favorable position.
I guess legitimate replays would help, because I don't see this being worthwhile. I just see myself being in a more favorable position if I'm able to snipe your preferred tech path outside of broodlords because that fortress won't scare me away from suiciding zealots for your infestors, roaches, or hydras.
I think your better off having the spire at your nat surrounded by as many mineral patches as you can.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
Lol, I expected more after reading preface. I wouldn't put all my buildings in one base.
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Yeah the first pic is disappointing
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
I'm definitely gonna start putting evo chamber around my spine.
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I guess it's always worth the extra effort to think about building placements. Interesting post, but needs a bit more organization/effort for a real guide. I def took something away from this though, so thanks for the tips!
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On November 30 2011 23:27 T.O.P. wrote:
I'm definitely gonna start putting evo chamber around my spine.
rofl, agreed
It would probably be much better to make 3x greater spires than "mass buildings" in the late game
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I actually think this is a good post, as the DTs are always getting inside my tech and killing it.
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The only good thing about this post is the use of Overseers rather than spores.
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On December 01 2011 01:18 lknockoutl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 23:27 T.O.P. wrote:
I'm definitely gonna start putting evo chamber around my spine. rofl, agreed It would probably be much better to make 3x greater spires than "mass buildings" in the late game
You're not making anything. You're just using a building that you should have anyway.
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On December 01 2011 01:18 lknockoutl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 23:27 T.O.P. wrote:
I'm definitely gonna start putting evo chamber around my spine. rofl, agreed It would probably be much better to make 3x greater spires than "mass buildings" in the late game
You just have to use your buildings that you should do in any case to defend your greater spire (i think the most important tech in ZvP, without it you lost the game) it has sense, even on brood war we were doing it.
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What a great guide, I really appreciated it as the whole community.
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Dunno about the rest of these guys but I found this pretty helpful ^^ certainly something I've never thought much about, and whether it's supposedly common knowledge or not, I'm grateful that you posted it.
Losing that greater spire is one of the biggest bummers in zvp...
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god, it is annoying as fuck losing your unit buildings while having a great economic advantage. Now here come a couple minutes in which all you can do is make drones.
and so you lose
i often find myself in games in which i keep rebuilding spines in my main and the protoss keeps warping +3 attack zealots and killing them. It sucks that they don't scale with upgrades.
maybe i should consider having better building placements in general.
i mean, you are probably gonna have a couple evos anyway, so there is no reason for not putting them to protect more important buildings.
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i feel like these building placements would just be bad against void rays, especially the ones near the edge. Just my opinion.
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This is is a neat idea, thanks !
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I like the idea of using bigger buildings to surround your spines so they can't get focused down by warped-in zealots or DTs.
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I always wondered why Z players weren't using clamped buildings to defend their greater spires. If I played zerg, i'd definitely use this.
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On December 01 2011 02:05 ZyM wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 01:18 lknockoutl wrote:On November 30 2011 23:27 T.O.P. wrote:
I'm definitely gonna start putting evo chamber around my spine. rofl, agreed It would probably be much better to make 3x greater spires than "mass buildings" in the late game You're not making anything. You're just using a building that you should have anyway.
Are you trying to tell me that you are making an evo chamber, a roach warren, an hydras den and an infestors pit AFTER the spire? Or eventually you are assuming you will have a greater spire and going for a premeditated simcity?
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so this is like putting all your eggs in one basket? which could work for some, but if they kill all your tech it's insta-lose.
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It's a premeditated simcity, exactly. This is actually pretty clever. I love it when zergs try to cover their spire with overlords, as if that's gonna do anything. ZyM's fortress might just keep you from losing games to tech snipes and it doesn't cost you anything. I like the way you think, ZyM.
To people harping about void rays. At this point in the game, if there are voids in your base getting charged you're doing something terribly wrong. If they've gone voids you will have spores, queens, probably getting corruptors for the collosus switch and maybe hydras. I think this is a non-issue.
tldr: nothing to lose with this trick, much to gain.
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Don't know why so many people are hating on this idea - I personally find it helpful. I guess it would take some practice to adapt the sim city idea to different maps though.
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EPT
