EPTOn November 23 2011 10:39 beamingrobot wrote:
http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/videos/79392-cwr3-liquidret-vs-liquidhero-game-2
http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/videos/79392-cwr3-liquidret-vs-liquidhero-game-2
Thanks
[G] The PvZ of Gods - Page 2
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
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ReTrY
United Kingdom79 Posts
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
On November 23 2011 23:39 Flonomenalz wrote: Ah, the dreaded VR into sentry drop... it's why I started spreading creep in my main, and just pre-emptively splitting my units once I see a VR or two killing OLs in the air space that leads to my main. Yea this is probably the best way to deal with it. This is why it's so crucial to distract him with a zealot attack or a void ray poke, otherwise if they have good minimap awareness they could react in time and completely shut you down. | ||
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
On November 23 2011 13:35 Xenorawks wrote: Observers don't forcefield, I believe the word you're looking for is sentries. Problem easily solved by placing a queen/spore at ramp to kill the warpprism. Another reason why zergs die to it is because they don't have vision of their entire base, so they only spot the warpprism at the ramp at the very last second if there happen to be a creep tumor there. If you took an extra tumor to cover the edge of your base where the prism could come you won't have this problem. Towards mid-game, nydus, hydras and mutas kill this too. If they put a spora at the ramp you just unload elsewhere, ff ramp and kill it with zealots. It hits too soon for mutas to be a real threat, if you use your second round of warpin on stalkers you will hae 8stalkers and 4-5 void rays, which is more than they can handle. If he does have them very fast just don't attack and play it out like you ordinarily would. Hydra doesn't beat this at all, and nobody has a nydus ready by the 9 min mark ^^ | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
Also, I find that if I fail to do enough damage with the pressure, it becomes very difficult to take my third. Roach/hydra and 3-base muta transitions both give me trouble. Any tips for defending the third? | ||
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s1eger
United States126 Posts
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stokes17
United States1411 Posts
On December 05 2011 03:06 kcdc wrote: rsvp, if you read this, why do you get a 2nd stargate as your pressure winds down? I use this as my primary strategy vs Z's that take a fast third, and it rocks, but I don't typically bother with a 2nd stargate unless they tried to defend their third with only lings and I'm worried about mutas hitting before I can get proper ground-to-air. Also, I find that if I fail to do enough damage with the pressure, it becomes very difficult to take my third. Roach/hydra and 3-base muta transitions both give me trouble. Any tips for defending the third? I'm Obviously not Col. RSVP..... but the only possible thing I can think of is to be prepared for a muta switch. Maybe the SG tech delays templar tech enough that just getting 2 SGs is the more efficient move? I suppose it also prepares you to burst out some VRs fairly quickly against Broodlord tech. I'd be interested in advice on holding a third too, especially vs 3 base muta transition (I assume you mean from roach which is what gives me trouble.) | ||
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covetousrat
2109 Posts
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
On December 05 2011 03:06 kcdc wrote: rsvp, if you read this, why do you get a 2nd stargate as your pressure winds down? I use this as my primary strategy vs Z's that take a fast third, and it rocks, but I don't typically bother with a 2nd stargate unless they tried to defend their third with only lings and I'm worried about mutas hitting before I can get proper ground-to-air. Also, I find that if I fail to do enough damage with the pressure, it becomes very difficult to take my third. Roach/hydra and 3-base muta transitions both give me trouble. Any tips for defending the third? I think it's because he wants to do a gateway/phoenix timing if he scouts mutas. You should note that he doesn't make 2star voids nonstop, it's probably just because he wants two stargates rdy when the situation calls for it. The key to defending hydra/roach pushes is fast storm, you really need it asap. Together with chargelots and your voids it shouldn't be too hard. Like vs mutas it's oddily safer to expand faster because 3base chargelots produce really fast. You can also opt for some cannons. You should scout him constantly with your phoenix, if you see mutas switch to phoenix production. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
Anyway I love the first option, like the second play but hate the third. Hero's sentry drop is awesome and can be quite hard to defend. Even if they do have units and a good split it is not really bad because you can just go 3rd + colo anyway, you simply can't really go wrong with it imo. I prefer 1 void into a few phoenix though. I like especially that you don't need to break down your own wall-in for this variant, becuse you warp in all units, makes it very good on maps like shakuras where i prefer the quick full wall-in. I've tried the hero style after 1 gate expo into stargate as well and can work too, it doesn't rely on having a forge at all and you'll be having plenty of sentries with energies with a 1 gate FE. In a way it can actually even be faster of 1 gate FE because of the faster tech and more energy on the sentries and the maps where i 1 gate FE are often those with close air distances (sh. temple & meta). Second play is pretty neat too because you are pretty much garanteed to do economic damage. They need AA and something to beat the zealots and if they rely on spores only you can use the voids to aid in the fight. Worst case scenario you simply retreat the zealots (roaches won't have speed) and you can get into midgame reasonably well, you'll need a third that is relatively easy to defend though. For this reason I tend to prefer option 1 on maps like shakuras (bit smaller and easy to do warp prism play) while I prefer option 2 on more open maps like tal darim. Also I also like voidray + gateway attack on the third after a 1 gate FE, if they have proper defenses you can simply retreat as well. Third play I don't like at all, first of all it puts hardly any pressure quickly on the third and immortals are pretty damn slow to push with. Proper roach/ling play can stop that immortal aggression quite well, you;ll only have a few immortals and they'll have a much better economy. I also dislike relying on observers for scouting in PvZ, they are just so slow and with the queens/spores around it can be hard to spot that spire. Observers are better for checking army movement imo and simply relying on pressure or air units at first to reveal what's up. Straight up robo play into third is also just so incredibly hard to play against muta styles I just don't like it. Ofcourse muta CAN be handled with proper blink stalker play but it's insanely hard and imo you need to outplay the zerg. Even more annoying that playing blink stalker against muta is usually a game of tedious long waiting simply hoping for the Z to screw up. Imo stargate is the only way to reliably go into 3 base play, anything else is gimmicky imo. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
Third play I don't like at all, first of all it puts hardly any pressure quickly on the third and immortals are pretty damn slow to push with. Proper roach/ling play can stop that immortal aggression quite well, you;ll only have a few immortals and they'll have a much better economy. I also dislike relying on observers for scouting in PvZ, they are just so slow and with the queens/spores around it can be hard to spot that spire. Observers are better for checking army movement imo and simply relying on pressure or air units at first to reveal what's up. Straight up robo play into third is also just so incredibly hard to play against muta styles I just don't like it. Ofcourse muta CAN be handled with proper blink stalker play but it's insanely hard and imo you need to outplay the zerg. Even more annoying that playing blink stalker against muta is usually a game of tedious long waiting simply hoping for the Z to screw up. Imo stargate is the only way to reliably go into 3 base play, anything else is gimmicky imo. You're pretty even in econ actually vs roachstyles, no real need to pressure a lot. I have to agree: stargate is a lot better in the current metagame. Muta are just so insanely strong vs non-blind stargate that your only chance is an archon/ht/mothership/carrier ball which means 1hour games TT | ||
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charliexjustice
United States42 Posts
I love passive styles of play, but cannot find a replay of that specific style listed here. Thanks! | ||
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
Old but still the best. Check the muta thread linked in the op for reps vs muta. | ||
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