EPTAsk for advice -> Gets good Advice -> Denies
Listen to the better player, play better, macro better, make better decision instead of denying about how bad you played -_-
[H] How to beat mass archon? - Page 3
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TolEranceNA
Canada434 Posts
Ask for advice -> Gets good Advice -> Denies Listen to the better player, play better, macro better, make better decision instead of denying about how bad you played -_- | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
Honestly Belial, most of your 'help' threads seem to simply be excuses to whine about Protoss being imbalanced. Not really... I have a question about something I've never seen before, that is all. So you know, roaches are more efficient against zealots than banelings are both in gas and larva cost. I'm not sure what you saw to prompt a baneling nest, but I rewatched the reply and you knew he had DTs and 3 zealots and a phoenix before your baneling nest finished. I think you should have cancelled it and focused on making roaches. Lings are good for things other than morphing into banelings. That makes sense, I'll keep that in mind. I think banes are good in general against protoss, and so I figured they would be even better against a heavy zealot composition. They did do well, but I learn now that roaches would've done fine too, and handled the archons better. I think you should try to figure out what the minimum amount of spines you need to hold an attack that you reinforce. For zero units, 3 spines is needed for 3 gate pressure. I decided upon ~5 to deal with possible blink. I think I should've made the 3, and waited until I got concrete evidence of what he was doing to make more (and, if they are better still than units, as it would likely be late enough I'll have 50 drones anyways). I'll be conscious of this next time. I don't disagree with the 3 spine bit, but I think it is more effective to put down 1 spine and a roach warren then make roaches if an attack comes. If you made a 12-16 lings you could have easily delayed the opponent's expansion. If you make spines only, then your opponent can easily take his bases (in this game it was two bases). You have more economy with this route because your spines are drones and your units are delaying the opponent's economy or haven't been built yet. Instead of spending money on those spines in this game, you could have spent it on lings and drones, or lings and roaches if the attack came. Either way you'd be ahead but you can't make that decision with your style. Interesting. Next time I think I'm ahead, like I did in this game, I'll resort to units instead of spines. Regardless of what's better, I'm so ahead right, why not? And I'll need to deny his third. My thinking was "im ahead, it doesn't matter how many spines I put to hold off his aggressive/all-in build". I think now on I'll change it to "I'm ahead, so I'll make units instead of spines" Thanks, that's useful. What I meant by this is that if you know what your composition is going to be before you get into the game, then you are limiting yourself. There is no 'staple' composition in ZvP because Protoss can throw a lot of different things against you. If you can't get out of this mindset, then your 'staple' composition is drones, overlords and lings for scouting and backstabbing. Interesting. I think you are right. I just think you're really hung up on this Morrow style because it was on a Day[9] and you're not thinking very clearly about when it is and isn't effective. I didn't know it was on day9, I'll check it out. I haven't watched day9 in over a year, and I knew morrow started to like ling/bane around when I made a guide about it (shortly before infestor buff) and made it my own style. I didn't go banelingrain because I saw someone else do it, I did it because I saw problems with roach/hydra/corruptor in ZvP and I think hydras are never worth making besides for all-ins or in ZvZ in short distance, wide open maps like dual sight (i think only dual sight actually). This is all irrelevant though. Complaining about the good advice your given won't make your bad play any more viable... Did I complain about the advice? I had reasons for my play, and despite how terrible everyone thinks I am, I do everything for a reason and do quite well for myself. I explain the reasoning for my questionable moves, and respond to what people say. Thanks for the contribution though. You clearly started this thread in a tilting mood with the way you shot down suggestions from monk, someone who has a lot of experience with replay analysis, which show's that you're not ready to approach the game with the right attitude. I didn't shoot down his responses, I appreciate his input. Some of the things he said, like seeing if he had stalkers or not, wasn't clear in the game because I stole his gas, and his third unit was a stalker anyways. Maybe he didn't see that, or maybe I'm wrong and there's something I'm missing that he didn't make clear in his post. I wasn't in a tilted mood, I simply didn't understand what I ran across, and every decision I made had a reason for it. I think some of the decisions I am being criticized for weren't necessarily wrong in and of themselves, I think I overreacted too many times in this game. I should have been actively upgrading, but 3 evo chambers was too much. I should've made pure drones and no units and relied solely on spines instead of units in the early game, but not in the mid-game, and not with so many spines. I should have scouted the stargates earlier (perhaps earlier overlord speed, I generally am very good about that), and even if I didn't, I should have made spores, just not so many. I could have made corruptors, as I did, but I should've made enough not to get my roaches all lifted up, not so many that I 1-shot all his phoenixes. You can justify your compositions and choices, but if you choose to believe that you're making the right decisions (no warren before 50, more spines for defense) then you should be prepared to acknowledge that people may not be able to help you in the way you want. Sure. I could always be doing things wrong, and am glad to focus my opinions/strategies/responses if they are questionable. Making spines instead of units may be controversial, but I was definitely wrong in my execution, and the responses I've gotten have made it clear to me even after I couldn't figure it out when I went over the replay again. While people may say I'm just wrong on the spines part, they have taught me that making spines isn't always the answer as I may have approached it. I'm sorry if people who have watched the replay and offered advice feel shut down. That's not it at all. I appreciate the input, no matter the level of player or calibre of poster. I'm simply explaining my position, so that it may be more clear what I was trying to do in the game, and perhaps failed the execution of. I don't mean to be disrespectful at all. I'm well aware most people dislike me or think I'm a bad player, and I never said I was good. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
General themes across your help topics are that you overreact or react wrongly to what you see, or you simply try to implement a bad plan. Also it seems you almost always consider yourself to be much more ahead in your games than you actually are, especially economically. Your play has a general whiff of desperation, rather than solid macro play that Zerg excels at in this matchup. I'm not saying this to randomly criticise, it just feels like you need to fundamentally rethink how you approach ZvP, and also you need to be able to make better reads on your own replays. | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
I was also genuinely confused at the composition, and I should make roaches instead of banes to deal with zealots, and infestors asap to deal with archons. I think my attack at this third was dumb too, and this will just further reinforce the idea you should never attack as zerg until you have 75 drones (barring obvious vulnerabilities or solid timing all-ins). I think I was just really, unaware of how to deal with the composition I came across, and the level of play I did was poor in the game, but I was 'ahead' so it wasn't the biggest deal, but the problem was the wrong choices in 'im ahead anyways' kind of things. Like I should've made a super fast lair 'because im ahead anyways so it doesnt matter im cutting drones' instead of just purely droning like normal. I didn't take advantage of certain ... advantages, I suppose. I think my approach to zvp is pretty good, I was just quite confused on this game when I came across something id never seen before. | ||
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