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On November 04 2011 07:36 NoisyNinja wrote:
Lift off and don't fly through the cannons.
Horrible advice, stop saying this. They follow your CC, and harass you more with cannons, as someone said --- think of the mining time you lose, and the chrono on probes they have. They KNOW no attack is coming for a LONG time if you float. He can expo, and cannon around both bases for hellion/banshee/reaper protection (as cheese is going to be your only way to come back). He can now do anything, and win.
I stop cannon rushes by keeping an scv on the probe. Find his pylon, and try to block the high ground so he can't lay more cannons if possible. Sometimes it's hard to get marauders out, but that is a great recourse. I usually always double rax vs toss early, at like 13/13 or 14/14 so cannon rushes fuck me if they're aggressive.
Don't say they're bad for cannon rushing...if you lose to it, it's obviously viable.
It comes down to scouting, and how you react.
Marauders do wonders. If I get a marauder out, you can almost ALWAYS snipe the pylon supplying power because of cannon range and marauder range. They rarely cannon so heavily you can't sneak around and snipe something from behind. The issue is the 2nd pylon on high ground furthering the cannons.
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On November 04 2011 00:33 Xenorawks wrote:
1. A probe throws down a pylon in your base, send 4 workers to attack it. Send 1 more worker to follow his probe.
Wrong. Only reason to kill pylon is if you need to break into or out from somewhere, or if you have killed the probe by his mistake or something. He can rebuild pylons faster then you can kill them and often you cant kill it b4 it gets up. If he is not cannon rushing, just building a pylon to try to get you to react then pulling scv to kill it put you behind.
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as soon as it gets unbearable fly away! ensure u dont waste any marines fighting the cannons. save them for your new base locale!
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On November 03 2011 23:51 Leaky wrote:
cut
I saw both of these games. That's what I would recommend you to do. As soon as you notice he is going to cannon rush you, cut scv production at 12 and get 2 more rax [you should have one rax already] and get 6 marine. Then lift everything, move your cc + raxes to another place, get your scv and marines, and run to his base. Works wonders.
I doubt he will have cannons, but if he has, I doubt he walled already the ramp with pylons+ cannons. He will simcity, so you can just keep pressuring ( there will be some spot that can't be reached by his cannons); While you are pressuring that rax and cc you floated should have already reached another base and you should have started again scv production and from rax you should get some marines to prevent the probe from using the cannons again against you.
Then tech to tanks and enjoy your win. Hope that helped 
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On November 04 2011 08:01 GrassEater wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 00:33 Xenorawks wrote:
1. A probe throws down a pylon in your base, send 4 workers to attack it. Send 1 more worker to follow his probe.
Wrong. Only reason to kill pylon is if you need to break into or out from somewhere, or if you have killed the probe by his mistake or something. He can rebuild pylons faster then you can kill them and often you cant kill it b4 it gets up. If he is not cannon rushing, just building a pylon to try to get you to react then pulling scv to kill it put you behind.
If you did see the replay, his probe threw the pylon in his base and went out to throw a cannon below. Therefore as long as you wall off immediately after his probes leaves your base, that 4 workers will force a cancel on the pylon denying vision while you make your marine. I did state below after that, wall off immediately after his worker left. Since his worker left, there is no reason to let that pylon live if his worker won't be able to get back in.
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I once cannon rushed a Terran and he ignored it until the cannon finished and then just floated to his natural, putting me pretty far behind since he barely lost anything (like 1 Refinery and a bit of mining time) while I wasted money for 3 Pylons, a Forge, and a Photon Cannon, putting me pretty far behind.
My usual counter to a cannon rush is proxy Gateways in his main while I hold with Zealots in my main for as long as he can. I imagine you could do a similar thing as Terran, where you hold with Marines and proxy a Barracks or two, or maybe even a Factory for Hellions.
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wow... the question is how can u not defend it. when everything goes wrong, fly away... he invested in cannons, you lost nothing :D
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On November 04 2011 10:16 ThisGS wrote:
wow... the question is how can u not defend it. when everything goes wrong, fly away... he invested in cannons, you lost nothing :D
No offense but that's probably the worst advice. As people have pointed out, flying away and trying to rebuild is the WORST thing you can do. Options are not limited to the following
1) bunker + repair + maurader
2) counterattack with scv + few marines
Floating away buys so much time for the protoss, it's not even funny. Please don't do it.
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I don't know how terran loses to cannon rushes, but I'll watch.
Game 1. Why would you EVER pull scv's to attack a pylon. Just right click 1-2 scv's on the probe, and the moment cannons go down, put 4 workers on each cannon. I'm guessing you've never ever been cannon rushed before because there's a reason it doesn't work against terran. You could've ignored EVERY SINGLE THING BUILT, even the high ground cannon, and just built a bunker between your CC and the cannons, made a marauder, and won. You could've micro'd the marine, killed the cannon on the high ground, fully walled and lol'd. Basically everything that you could've done wrong you did wrong @_@.
Game 2. Again, so many mistakes. You could've lowered the depot on the right to shoot the probe, cannon would've still been out of range. You could've pulled workers to attack the cannons, you would've killed them. You shouldn't be building an orbital if you are getting cannon rushed, put the money towards bunkers and marines. ONE bunker, completed behind your mineral line would've ended the game.
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Idk... Just seeing a Probe do fishy actions in your base means you shouldn't lose. Pull SCVs, make sure you have at least 1 following the Probe, pick it off if it ever gets near your other SCVs in a way you can flank/surround it, and deny the Pylon. If the Pylon finishes, killing the Cannons is a bigger priority. And I can't confirm what others have said about Cannons being weaker and taking more time to make, but from personal experience, Cannons die pretty easily, even to workers so I'm not shocked if it is true.
Once your Marine is out, if you stalled the Probe long enough, the Marine should easily ward off the Probe (or kill it), and you're basically safe from that point on. The big thing is to respond quickly. If a cannon actually finished in your base, you're screwed in that even with perfect defense, you WILL lose more than you should have. Marauder in a Bunker works I suppose... I advocate prevention over half-assed responses to minimize damage.
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lol this thread gave me so much ideas for PvT.
If this is true Terrans feel so safe that if I'll just do some stupid ultra early tactic they will have know idea what to do o.0
I smell opportunities! brb testing on ladder.
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After you defend a cannon rush, if he has little to no units, immediately take an expo and mass marines. Make sure to build an ebay +turrets, because a common followup to cannon rush is moarcheese, like voids or dt.
Then transition into NOT losing your entire base, and go fucking kill him.
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To everyone saying "fly away,"I I guess what you mean is autolose. Any decent toss can just make sure that you never land your CC by putting down a pylon or 2 in the mineral line you're flying to, and the game is over because you're incredibly behind. The correct response is to put a bunker 1 unit away from the mineral line or the nearest part of your. CC and put a marine in it. If any cannons are in range, repair and put tech lab on rax. Build a marauder and the cannon rush is over. Make a quick in base CC and even a quick 3rd and play standard for a free win.
It's possible that even after you effectively end his cannon rush with the marauder, he may try to overwhelm you with cannons. This is fine, just add another bunker 1 space away (so you can get a good repair arc on the back end if necessary) and continue pumping marauders and adding rax when possible. He can't advance forward or you can just kill the probe.
Doing this, he will be at minimum a minute on tech behind with the cost of his pylon and any cannons he throws up or cancels pushing him further back. Even if he commits, the only resources you lose are 1-2 salvaged bunkers and some repair time; everything else is progress toward your composition.
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Honestly don't bother. Let them continue the cannon rush, let them get closer to within your CC, and all the while just keep your econ going and get some barracks, and pump Marines. Don't suicide the Marines into the cannons. Once he's in range, lift everything off over to your natural and start pumping more Marines while your existing Marines go assault his base. Result is he just wasted god knows how many minerals, is behind in tech and econ, and you're solid. He'll probably react by dropping a hundred cannons in his base, which is all the better. You're now way ahead, and can tech/econ at your leisure while he struggles to catch up.
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On November 04 2011 01:54 SoKHo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 01:03 Mente wrote:
What has been said already in this thread is all viable information in regards to cannon rush defenses. Your best bet is to scout, scout and scout some more if you're sensing some level of danger. A bunker will delay the cannons massively until you get siege/marauders. I usually just bumrush for a factory as I know cannons won't be able to kill me that quickly if I have some scvs repairing the bunker and I'll get the tank out and hellions to take on the zealots that will inevitably come shortly there after.
The tank is most beneficial as you can quickly clear out all of the other cannons (ignoring the fact that with marauders you'll have to eventually push out of your bunker line which can be problematic depending on the cannon numbers
Cannon rushes are not nearly as effective as they were in sc bw as the unit pathing AI is much more advanced.
Did you even watch the replay?? Lol tanks? Scout? No one scouts at 9 in tvp. If a protoss builds a pylon in your base by your ramp, its OBVIOUSLY a cannon rush. you don't have to scout, then scout some more if its obvious. There is no way in hell he woulda survived till tanks. He should have sent a reaper to his base, built a bunker, and not try to erect that wall.
He asked how to defend cannon rushes. Watching the replay wouldn't change anything that I mentioned as the strategy is the same in every scenario. And guess what scouting at 12 when you're building the rax if you're paranoid of some kind of cheese is completely acceptable. There's no way in hell a cannon is going down on 9 supply.
Factory tech is awesome to counter cannon rushes as it brings you to higher tech and doesn't run the risk of unit loss like rax tech would.
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Cannonrushing is terrible vs Terran...
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On November 11 2011 19:46 Mente wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 01:54 SoKHo wrote:On November 04 2011 01:03 Mente wrote:
What has been said already in this thread is all viable information in regards to cannon rush defenses. Your best bet is to scout, scout and scout some more if you're sensing some level of danger. A bunker will delay the cannons massively until you get siege/marauders. I usually just bumrush for a factory as I know cannons won't be able to kill me that quickly if I have some scvs repairing the bunker and I'll get the tank out and hellions to take on the zealots that will inevitably come shortly there after.
The tank is most beneficial as you can quickly clear out all of the other cannons (ignoring the fact that with marauders you'll have to eventually push out of your bunker line which can be problematic depending on the cannon numbers
Cannon rushes are not nearly as effective as they were in sc bw as the unit pathing AI is much more advanced.
Did you even watch the replay?? Lol tanks? Scout? No one scouts at 9 in tvp. If a protoss builds a pylon in your base by your ramp, its OBVIOUSLY a cannon rush. you don't have to scout, then scout some more if its obvious. There is no way in hell he woulda survived till tanks. He should have sent a reaper to his base, built a bunker, and not try to erect that wall. He asked how to defend cannon rushes. Watching the replay wouldn't change anything that I mentioned as the strategy is the same in every scenario. And guess what scouting at 12 when you're building the rax if you're paranoid of some kind of cheese is completely acceptable. There's no way in hell a cannon is going down on 9 supply. Factory tech is awesome to counter cannon rushes as it brings you to higher tech and doesn't run the risk of unit loss like rax tech would.
He's saying you're an idiot because:
1- you bumped an old topic for nothing but defending your stupidity.
2- You won't even finish the factory in time with a tech lab when the cannons are already done. Watching the replay would give you that time line you don't have.
He's saying cannon rushes come well before a siege tank will ever be out.
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I'll give the same advice I give to Protosses who lose to Cannons: stop the rush if you can scout it early, kill the Probe if able, and if the Cannons go up, stall as long as possible and start producing your T1.5 antiarmor unit. Protoss has the advantage of being able to micro Stalkers to only take Shield damage and Chrono Boost, and Terran has the advantage of cheaper units, higher damage, lift-off if you screw up, and MULEs. Seriously, pump Marauders until you have 4-5, use your first few to stop the spread of Cannons, then use the larger ball to quickly snipe the Cannons and then push out to regain map control. If you feel like being cute, then get an early Reaper and use it to harass and/or snipe his Probe. That's way more risky, though.
EDIT: Ack, didn't realize it was an older topic. My apologies.
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On November 11 2011 19:51 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2011 19:46 Mente wrote:On November 04 2011 01:54 SoKHo wrote:On November 04 2011 01:03 Mente wrote:
What has been said already in this thread is all viable information in regards to cannon rush defenses. Your best bet is to scout, scout and scout some more if you're sensing some level of danger. A bunker will delay the cannons massively until you get siege/marauders. I usually just bumrush for a factory as I know cannons won't be able to kill me that quickly if I have some scvs repairing the bunker and I'll get the tank out and hellions to take on the zealots that will inevitably come shortly there after.
The tank is most beneficial as you can quickly clear out all of the other cannons (ignoring the fact that with marauders you'll have to eventually push out of your bunker line which can be problematic depending on the cannon numbers
Cannon rushes are not nearly as effective as they were in sc bw as the unit pathing AI is much more advanced.
Did you even watch the replay?? Lol tanks? Scout? No one scouts at 9 in tvp. If a protoss builds a pylon in your base by your ramp, its OBVIOUSLY a cannon rush. you don't have to scout, then scout some more if its obvious. There is no way in hell he woulda survived till tanks. He should have sent a reaper to his base, built a bunker, and not try to erect that wall. He asked how to defend cannon rushes. Watching the replay wouldn't change anything that I mentioned as the strategy is the same in every scenario. And guess what scouting at 12 when you're building the rax if you're paranoid of some kind of cheese is completely acceptable. There's no way in hell a cannon is going down on 9 supply. Factory tech is awesome to counter cannon rushes as it brings you to higher tech and doesn't run the risk of unit loss like rax tech would. He's saying you're an idiot because: 1- you bumped an old topic for nothing but defending your stupidity. 2- You won't even finish the factory in time with a tech lab when the cannons are already done. Watching the replay would give you that time line you don't have. He's saying cannon rushes come well before a siege tank will ever be out.
1 - Nothing wrong with bumping an old topic to add my .02 cents. That's the point of a forum.
2 - Clearly you're either bad or have never played this game before. Tanks can come out really fast. Fast enough to delay cannons if you're not an absolute moron. I stand by my position.
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Flying away is a perfectly good strategy, protoss cannot stop you landing because your SCV will kill any probe/pylon easily.
Toss is far behind economically as he has cut probes to cannon rush you and has no gateway. Hell I remember on some small maps I would just rush the guy back with my SCV and 1-2 marines, easy win.
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EPT
