EPTThanks!
[Q] Good openings for 2v2 (Terran and Protoss)
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brunod89
Canada12 Posts
Thanks! | ||
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Mayoh
Denmark1 Post
4 gate + 3 racks with stim 3 gate robo + 1-1-1 | ||
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Saishuuheiki
United States188 Posts
Any build is going to depend on two important things: Races of opponents and are their bases shared or separate. That aside your strategies are mostly going to revolve around what the terran chooses to do. The protoss is probably going to either 4-gate and try to do a timing push around 6-7 mark, or 2-3 gate zealot into stalker rush with terran marine rushing. For 2v2 it's important to realize most builds have a time they reach their strongest point / timing at. You should try to match up these timings, preferably against a weak point in your opponents build timing. For example: the two main protoss openers are 2-3 gate rush or 4-gate warp timing. If you expect your opponent is 4-gating you should realize that if you both attack at the 5 minute mark, then you can crush this protoss as he won't have any units at this time. Even though you won't have too many units, your combined armies will likely be enough to overwhelm what he has. (Assuming separate bases) | ||
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MindBreaker
United States574 Posts
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Hoon
Brazil891 Posts
On October 25 2011 00:27 MindBreaker wrote: Is it really that common to rush in 2v2? I mean in the last 15 2v2 games i haven't been attacked before 8-9 min Most of the diamond/masters 2v2 teams I've seen play based on timing attacks which occur at around the 8~10 minutes mark. It's not really a rush, it's a timing push. Rushes would occur earlier than that. For 2v2 strats, I've been opening as safe as possible and transitioning to sky terran as my partner goes mass colossi. ^_^ So we would have a huge ball of colossi, vikings and banshees. Against Zerg, it's pretty cool to kill all their overlords. Our timing pushes would be based on the amount of overlordsd I kill. | ||
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RAPiDCasting
Korea (South)594 Posts
Even if you play defensively, you will still have to "rush" to defend against early attacks. f your opponent doesn't rush you, chances are you could've killed him with your own rush. | ||
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MindBreaker
United States574 Posts
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horsepire
147 Posts
The terran goes for gas first into reactored hellions. When you have enough gas, add on a second factory and a second reactor (barracks builds both, then swap), cut workers, stop mining gas, and crank out dem hellions. If you do it right you can have 13 by the seven minute mark, with 8 more every minute after that. The protoss goes for some kind of fast robo --> immortals play. I'm not sure exactly what build my brother uses when we play but he usually gets three immortals and several zealots by the seven minute mark, and then we push. The push is exceptionally strong because it hits before any mass air timing (mutas won't be out until 8-9 minutes at the very, very earliest, and more likely not until much later, around 11-12 minutes) and immortals and hellions compliment each other extremely well. Mass hellion will destroy almost any T1 or T2 composition cost effectively, and the ones it can't (tanks, mass marauder, mass roach, etc.) are hard countered by the immortals. Because of the mobility of hellions, and the sheer number you have out, you can do runbys almost on a whim, and kill entire mineral lines with ease. Once they lose workers, they have no chance of stopping the 8 hellions per minute that keep rallying in, even if they get air units. It's also remarkably resilient to early pressure. You can switch the barracks back to a reactor and make bunkers if they go for an early roach push, and protoss can forcefield the ramp with a sentry if need be to hold until he gets out immortals (then bye bye roaches). One game we played on Tyrador Keep, I had two hellions when our opponents left their base to do a marine-ling push. By the time they breached our rocks I had ten, and it was a massacre. The only thing I suspect this build might have trouble with is some kind of void ray play, but even then, you might be able to win with a base trade or something, or stall while you switch the rax over and mass marines. Anyway, it's a ton of fun to play, check it out. I might try to upload replays later if anyone's interested. | ||
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horsepire
147 Posts
EDIT: Pretty unstoppable if, you know, they don't just fucking kill you in the first six minutes.  | ||
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Pwnisher
Canada22 Posts
Basically the gameplan is proxy.. cheesy, but at the top level it works, and even if scouted it can be hard to stop anyways. Place a pylon, and then build the proxy 2 rax on one side of the pylon, and the 2 gateways (or 3 if you feel up for it) against the barraks. Even better if you can manage to build the barracks against the wall as well. This build pattern only provides ONE side that the scv can build on and be attacked by a probe, while almost completely defending the pylon from being sniped as well. Just stream marines and zealots into the enemy base as soon as they are spawning, and throw down a bunker or two as you push them back to contain and have a fallback point. A very effective strategy in all matchups, and vs all matchups. GLGL! | ||
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RubiksCube
Germany259 Posts
On October 25 2011 01:02 horsepire wrote: My brother and I play 2v2s T/P and just started using a new strat the other day that we've had huge success with. We're 9-0 with it so far in diamond, and have reached the top of our division. We've played several high diamonds and a few masters level teams on the way, and none of the games have been particularly close. The terran goes for gas first into reactored hellions. When you have enough gas, add on a second factory and a second reactor (barracks builds both, then swap), cut workers, stop mining gas, and crank out dem hellions. If you do it right you can have 13 by the seven minute mark, with 8 more every minute after that. The protoss goes for some kind of fast robo --> immortals play. I'm not sure exactly what build my brother uses when we play but he usually gets three immortals and several zealots by the seven minute mark, and then we push. The push is exceptionally strong because it hits before any mass air timing (mutas won't be out until 8-9 minutes at the very, very earliest, and more likely not until much later, around 11-12 minutes) and immortals and hellions compliment each other extremely well. Mass hellion will destroy almost any T1 or T2 composition cost effectively, and the ones it can't (tanks, mass marauder, mass roach, etc.) are hard countered by the immortals. Because of the mobility of hellions, and the sheer number you have out, you can do runbys almost on a whim, and kill entire mineral lines with ease. Once they lose workers, they have no chance of stopping the 8 hellions per minute that keep rallying in, even if they get air units. It's also remarkably resilient to early pressure. You can switch the barracks back to a reactor and make bunkers if they go for an early roach push, and protoss can forcefield the ramp with a sentry if need be to hold until he gets out immortals (then bye bye roaches). One game we played on Tyrador Keep, I had two hellions when our opponents left their base to do a marine-ling push. By the time they breached our rocks I had ten, and it was a massacre. The only thing I suspect this build might have trouble with is some kind of void ray play, but even then, you might be able to win with a base trade or something, or stall while you switch the rax over and mass marines. Anyway, it's a ton of fun to play, check it out. I might try to upload replays later if anyone's interested. Early Immortal Push is pretty awesome in 2v2. I used to do that with my roommate, I'd just mass marines with stim while he went for zealot/immortal. It can transition nicely into collossi + mass bio with medivacs. | ||
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RubiksCube
Germany259 Posts
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scorch-
United States816 Posts
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brunod89
Canada12 Posts
I will definitely try some of your suggestions! Please keep them coming if there are more! | ||
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RoboBob
United States798 Posts
These are the openings I've had the most success with in team games: TvZ: Reactor Hellion, Proxy 6 Rax, 5 Rax Reaper TvP: 3 Rax Stim, 1-1-1 Cloakshees, Proxy 2 Rax with Marauders TvT: 3 Rax Stim, 1-1-1 Cloakshees, 1-1-1 Hellion Drop | ||
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Crysack
Australia94 Posts
On October 25 2011 00:27 MindBreaker wrote: Is it really that common to rush in 2v2? I mean in the last 15 2v2 games i haven't been attacked before 8-9 min I disagree with the idea that 2v2 is all about rushing. I open anything from 3gate, 3gate robo, 2gate robo to 1gate expand - depending on what I see. 4gate strikes me as a huge waste - even in 2v2. Most of my 2v2 games go to macro games and I have multiple masters teams to show for it, so ake of that what you will. | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
Proxy 10/11/11 gate + Proxy 11/11 rax. Very early: 12/12/12 gate cb zealots + 6 rax Early: 4 gate + 3 rax stim/2 fac BFH vs zerg. Middle: 5 gate blink stalker + 3 rax stim +1 / 1-1-1 | ||
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Zariel
Australia1312 Posts
1) Shared base or separate? 2) Wall off capability 3) Scouting - to determine aggression level of opponent Now, as a T+P scenario, the possibilities are endless as you can see in what you could do. If the wall off chance is low (eg: opponent is Z+P, shared base), then a 2 gate, cb zealot with a terran going 2-3 rax marine, hit at 4:30 mark would be the best. Army count should be 5 zealots, handful of marines rocking up the enemy doorstep. However, if a wall-off chance is high (T+T, separate base), then a super rush could be easily thwarted off and you must consider a 7 min push (eg: 4 gate, + 2rax, tank-marine), you must also gauge the defensiveness of your opponent as well. | ||
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alpenrahm
Germany629 Posts
as the posters before me said; 2v2 is heavily depending on what you are facing. we usually differ between: shared base maps and split base ones teams that have zergs in them and teams that dont. since you are the terran in your team it is your job to do the second scout. this means you will have to get a good idea of what they are trying to accomplish right when your buddy leaves with his probe. you can do it with a reaper, a hellion a scan or a simple early rax timing but getting the information is key! because no matter what, your team has to rely on bunkers/tanks for defence and getting the timing right on those decides if the game goes on or if you just lose. third scout = obs for toss. the better you scout the safer you are. also if possible, try to deny scouting information by blocking your ramp early. as a TP team your forte is the midgame. only try to kill your opponents in the early if you have an actual plan and a strong followup. try to complement armies with your mate, eg: you can skip some marines on shared bases when your buddy has 3 gates or more and go for faster tanks. or skip a starport when you already have an obs out for highground spotting. also tank sentry stalker kills every t1 -t1.5 army, regardless of unit counts if microed properly. TP teams cannot win battles against any other combo if you dont have perfect positioning. So you need to always have vision infront of your army and over all counterattack paths so you can siege up before! engagements. have fixed roles in what units to make. like "im going bio" ----> toss gets robo "im going 111" ----> toss needs gateways those can be alot more detailed but little does well for now ^^ as a general tip, abuse forcefields! those things are über strong in 2v2. | ||
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quillian
United States318 Posts
As always, should break it down by if there is a zerg or not: vs non zerg (PT, TT, PP) : If there is a shared base wall off, 2 gate stalker rush + 2 rax marauder. This rush will destroy their first pylons and supply depots and usually win the game. If they are more conservative and build by their mineral line, tank/viking + blink/colossus timing push. vs zerg teams ZZ TZ - Fast hellion + stargate. 1 base phoenix in 2's can always kill a queen, 2-3 drones, and a few overlords. this will cripple zerg econ. If they counter all in with roach ling/mm, just get 2 void rays and LOL as hellions roast marines. If it goes longer, Archon ftw! vs PZ - toughest matchup by far. Hellions are crap vs protoss, and you have no other great options vs speedlings early game, so you have to turtle =( Phoenix/voidray is also less effective vs protoss than terran. You will usually face speedling/stalker or (occasionally) a roach/4gate all in. If they don't just all in, this matchup is ALL about map control. A fast banshee with cloak can keep them occupied while protoss techs to colossus. Go Terran air + protoss ground for a mobile, high impact army. hope this helps, feel free to PM me for details on specific builds. + Show Spoiler + once you have 8-10 2-2 carriers you push out with all your zealots and carriers and all his forces!! lol | ||
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Battousai13
United States638 Posts
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familyguy123
92 Posts
IF on fairly close positons or a two player fortress map (ruins tarsonis,tyrador), i'd tank/robo push. the P's unit composition consists of immortal/sentry/stalker, the T's is marine/tank. the purpose of the P is to spot for tanks, protect tanks, & control pathways for the opposing army. immortals are good to stop blink stalkers & stimrauders, from sniping tanks. the FF's are good for stopping runbys or flanks with lings. the stalkers are good for zoning, walking around to figure out where their army is, and for chasing runbys if they do go through. this works pretty well against any race. with tanks, you should be able to snipe expansions or just control the front of their base. i'd also situationally recommend stalker/banshee. that's apparently where the PT metagame sits now, i'm not exactly sure how to qualify which situations its viable. certainly not against 2P or TP, but my partner and i have wiped the floor with zerg players since they lack a good answer to either blink or banshee. in 1v1 what makes neither viable all-in is the fact one can just counterattack if you want to get to the critical mass of unanswerable banshees, which is not as big of a problem in 2v2 due to shared defense. make sure you have 2 sentries + 2 bunker + wall to prevent counter-attack all-in or runbys. | ||
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Thatbronzeleagueguy
United Kingdom1 Post
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