EPTMicro for zerg - Page 6
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nastyyy
United States262 Posts
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On November 26 2011 18:56 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote: Those who are saying micro muta, corruptor, etc.... If you think of it that way then every race is micro intensive of course.... Thats like the basic of all races, just common sense, to be careful with muta, colossi, marines, everything basically. Everything requires micro, if you put it that way But that's exactly the way it is. In Brood War, the concept of Muta micro is quite famous, but there are players known specifically for their ling micro, for example - and lings are definitely not the kind of unit you would think is "made" for micro. Even in SC2 you definitely need both. There is a big difference between the player who will harass the Protoss with Mutas and not lose a single one to 2 Cannons or several Stalkers, and the player who will just shift-queue on the Cannons and leave it like that or simply fly away doing no damage. Likewise, there's a big difference between the player who does a ling runby and has 50% of his lings doing nothing because they can't reach the Cannon or do no damage because the other player used hold position on his Probes and the player who micros to maximize the damage being done by the lings. Also, during a drop when Marines move in between the mineral patches, a lot of Zerg players will just a-move lings to clear it up and like 20 lings will end up dying because only 1 can attack at the same time. Real micro is what you do with your basic units - the simple act of manoeuvring to save your wounded units and retain your army and/or maximize the damage being dealt. It's not about casting spells, especially not the way SC2 does it where you can pretty much spam spells at will. Storms, EMPs, Fungals and especially blinking Stalkers are the least micro-intensive features on any race, but they end up being done the most simply because you're required to do them in order to make use of these units. | ||
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StatixEx
United Kingdom779 Posts
So, i do understand that macr is important but this is the thing now. im at a point where more games, more experience will get it batter. I totally understand what is wrong with my play and how to improve it. the problem is the physical nature of doing this. If you couldnt google my rank, i could talk it up all day long this game and seem like a high level player so, to further change the direction of this topic which has been the single most best post EVER for me is there anything i can do with this set up. First of all ill explain how i play this game at the minute as it has radically changed since the conception of this post. 1. I group all melee units to 1 2. i group all ranged to 2 3. i group specials and spell casters to 3 4. queens are one hot hey as are all hatches 4,5 6 is for structures and 0 is for drones and "remember this" things so my macro i think pretty good, well its getting better the problem is the micro, so here is a typical battle for me, tell me what i should adapt im going in for the attack: 1. rally group 1 units and then 2 behind them(i have grop3 units in this pack as well just use 3 when i engage to split them) i send in 1, zerglings get in and give me padding while roaches get in there and start the spray, i then move up my ranged units with these and then use fungals and all other caper. from the pros i see them do it the other way round but im far too slow for this, my infestors which are the tide of the battle somtimes get sniped and i panic and it all goes to hell and i lose my set 3 army. Yes see macro isnt the problem cos back at home im injecting and spreading and hatching ALways on an attack to make the most of the gain if i get one. Suggest improvements to this play, i am on some games going fungal first then melee in but only when its clear my opponent is losing macro/micro against my 1a2a3 click attack style | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
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money4me247
United States4 Posts
On November 27 2011 23:26 StatixEx wrote: i appreciate the help but getting refered to as a beginner is getting to me a bit. ive been playing sc2 since 98 . . im 31 years old!!! See the problem is this, having owned the games and a pc for so long i know and love the game but last year (bit longer i know!) when sc2 came out i got it, agreed that this is as much as the same but a bit better than bw and then began to play. It was only by chance i typed into google opening strategy terran sc2, to be blasted with a million and 1 pages of tourneys and esport pages . . that was it then, i had to learn to play multiplayer as my single player is ok (way better now ofc!) So, i do understand that macr is important but this is the thing now. im at a point where more games, more experience will get it batter. I totally understand what is wrong with my play and how to improve it. the problem is the physical nature of doing this. If you couldnt google my rank, i could talk it up all day long this game and seem like a high level player so, to further change the direction of this topic which has been the single most best post EVER for me is there anything i can do with this set up. First of all ill explain how i play this game at the minute as it has radically changed since the conception of this post. 1. I group all melee units to 1 2. i group all ranged to 2 3. i group specials and spell casters to 3 4. queens are one hot hey as are all hatches 4,5 6 is for structures and 0 is for drones and "remember this" things so my macro i think pretty good, well its getting better the problem is the micro, so here is a typical battle for me, tell me what i should adapt im going in for the attack: 1. rally group 1 units and then 2 behind them(i have grop3 units in this pack as well just use 3 when i engage to split them) i send in 1, zerglings get in and give me padding while roaches get in there and start the spray, i then move up my ranged units with these and then use fungals and all other caper. from the pros i see them do it the other way round but im far too slow for this, my infestors which are the tide of the battle somtimes get sniped and i panic and it all goes to hell and i lose my set 3 army. Yes see macro isnt the problem cos back at home im injecting and spreading and hatching ALways on an attack to make the most of the gain if i get one. Suggest improvements to this play, i am on some games going fungal first then melee in but only when its clear my opponent is losing macro/micro against my 1a2a3 click attack style hey StatixEx, I dunno if you even play the game anymore as this is a really old post, but if you are still having trouble with your games I would really suggest you focus on 3 specific not interesting non-micro things. 1.) drone counting. 16 drones on your minerals + 6 in gas. So you would want to ctrl+click a drone & see exactly 2 lines of drones + 4 more drones as one drone is in the extractor. this lets you know if you have enough drones. while really annoying to do, it SUPER important (more important than microing) as it lets you know what kind of economy you have. 2.) you want to have a safe macro-style "game plan/BO" to get 3 base fully saturated as soon as possible & know what kind of attacks can disrupt you. make sure to be prepared for the attack without making units until you know it is coming. You do this by ovie scouting at the correct timings & having spotter lings. 3.) gas timings for even distribution of gas & minerals throughout the game -> but under 500 total resources throughout the game. Note the key to getting a good econ is to delay your gas until you actual need it! Besides 100 gas for speed, usually there is nothing else you need that requires gas in the early game (except ZvZ -> banelings). Don't bother taking your 3rd & 4th gas until after you get lair because that gas will just be sitting in your bank not doing anything. Instead get more minerals & make more drones. Watch your replays & just look at your drone count, drone saturation, & resources compared to your opponents. As zerg your drone count should be higher than your opponents throughout the game and your resources should be under 500 throughout the game until you get maxed. your gas and money should get roughly even. If you see either one spike, that means you either took gas too early or too late. Basically, I went from platium to masters by focusing mainly on macro stuff like this & understanding build order timings. Tell you the truth, I usually don't even flank with my army and I hardly ever harrass. The most important thing that is micro related is knowing when you can attack & when you should WAIT. If you only attack when you have MORE stuff in an open area, it is really hard to lose. This just requires you to have better econ & be comfortable defending against attacks & harrass. This is a lot of words & I hope it helps, but from my personal experience, micro is very neglible for sc2 improvement. it's all about the drones/econ, gas timings, (not getting supply blocked or missing injects), and having an economically greedy but safe opening that you can defend against the different types of harrass/timing attacks. I am actually now just starting to try to improve my micro because I am finally playing against opponents as greedy as I am, so our armies are equal. =S | ||
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
Its very helpful to be almost OCD about your drone counts and saturation, as that alone is helping me make the same transition you've made (plat to masters). I'm already finding that just doing these poorly (I still suck) is enough to make games vs top8 diamonds winnable as usually I can over-run them due to their own macro deficiencies after holding a particularly strong attack. | ||
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money4me247
United States4 Posts
On November 29 2011 18:59 KimJongChill wrote: How would you guys recommend engaging a protoss? I played a game on metalopolis, and had a roach/ling/infestor composition, and as soon as I attack, my army is split in half and my infestors are out of range. Should I be leading with the roaches and lings, how should I be using my infestors better? It depends on his composition but if you are going against an immortal, sentry, stalker push. I would suggest that you spread out your roaches so they are not clumped but in more of a line. Meet him as soon as he moves out & try to bait forcefields and retreat without getting any units caught. Continue to do this all the way back to your base while making more troops. Your goal is to have him waste as many forcefields as possible and you want to wait until you have your biggest army to deal with it. Your lings can either counter if he didnt cannon up or run around to flank him. When you do finally commit, you want to attack in a very open space where he cannot use a few forcefields to block you. Try to attack with at least 2 different angles with your roaches. Just run your roaches as close to his army as possible instead of a-moving as only the front line roaches will be in range and the rest of the roaches will get split off. If his FFs aren't perfect the lings can slip through. Infestors can always lob ITs over FFs which helps a lot. once the FFs go down try to WALK (not a-move) the out of range units around the FFs to attack. That is why it is important to have him waste FFs and attack in an open area, so that there will be gaps that you can sneak through. If you fumbled it & only a small amount of your units are in range. pull everything make and try again. If you are attacking into him, I would suggest trying to distract him with a small ling attack somewhere else so he probably won't FF your main force in time and then push everything right up against his army. fungal then spam ITs. | ||
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obipam
United States15 Posts
 For those of us using the backspace method - I think a good way to tell if we need to inject while microing is to have our hatcheries selected. If any of the hatcheries have a lot of larvae, inject, spend the larvae, then back to micro. I just mention this since I think checking the Queen energy isn't as good - if we slip up even slightly with queen injecting, checking her energy will have us checking the base too often. | ||
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Gumbi
Ireland463 Posts
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NiteWatch
Indonesia58 Posts
 jk jkI guess in tvz the zergs i lose to always put their ultras in front and ling/bling infestor in the back of them. Its extremely hard to hold dat cuz the ultras tank so much damage and fungals trap a lot of my bio. I guess infestors require a lot of micro due to them being spellcasters. Oh and flanks help immensely in spreading out dps of terran units and reducing splash, making them less costeffective cuz they kill zerg units so slowly | ||
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OzkanTheFlip
United States246 Posts
On October 23 2011 17:56 Xapti wrote: Blizzard made zerg trash in SC2 by giving them virtually no micro potential. On the bright side, that means you don't need to practice your micro. The one thing you can do is burrow roach micro, but it's not too difficult IMO. User was warned for this post says true negative statement, gets warned same old tl.net User was warned for this post | ||
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MichaelDonovan
United States1453 Posts
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