Well jecktor thats actually a very good tactic to use "if" the protoss is 1 base all ining you. You can delay his 3 gates or stargate so he cant attack and while you fast expand ^^. Gj

ForeverSleep

Canada920 Posts

September 15 2011 01:35 GMT

#82

still, say i play protoss...how do I defend this already? ^^

Bonesy

United States101 Posts

September 15 2011 01:47 GMT

#83

I want to start off first by saying that I appreciate the effort you put into this and in sharing with the TL community. It's an interesting build and it's nice that someone found a way to get reapers going in one of the matchups.

That being said, I feel that Jayrod was correct although overly harsh in his assesment. In the first two games you are well behind after the reaper harass. I was looking at what would be different if you just did a normal FE build and surely you would be closer in workers and supply but maybe a little behind in buildings. It seems that you get faster medivacs with your build which leads me to the next point. It's your drop play that won you those games. You are really good with drop harassment and that is killing them. Clearly, as you stated, your macro falls quite a bit while microing reapers so maybe a player with superior multitasking would make this build look better.

Also, some of the toss are making somewhat foolish mistakes which you are exploiting nicely I might add. No pylons near edge of base, no thermal lance, walking a colossus to his death, one pylon powering three buildings etc.

Now in the last two replays, you crushed him early as a result of your build so clearly it has merit. It just seems that if you fail to do the expected damage, you will be too far behind.

Kiri

United States84 Posts

September 15 2011 03:53 GMT

#84

Well Bonesy, what im offering to you is an early unpredictable very mobile harass possibility with a quick expansion. Of course if you invest money into units and fail completely without doing any sort of damage you'll be behind. Thats like saying "well i went for an early marine/marauder poke but got forcefield trapped on the ramp and lost all my units without killing anything". Obviously if you lose units for nothing you'll be slightly behind. But most of the damage is guaranteed (to some degree) as well as saying most protoss make 1-3 sentries during the early stages of the game, if you kill 2 sentries and a zealot you basically pay for the reapers so any probes you take out along with the harassment is an added bonus.

I know this build isn't perfect and i took out my comment on this being the new meta-game TvP. But how you transition from this harassment is up to you. An expansion doesnt even have to be made, you can instead make 3 barracks and do a timing push with the reapers hitting the main base while you push the front. Play with it and experiment, im just giving an option of a way to utilize the Nitro pack upgrade for reapers.

Jecktor

United States41 Posts

September 15 2011 07:43 GMT

#85

I have not had much chance to put this build into effect a lot (Im random making that a 1/9 chance for TvP) from what I can gather its does give a kind of psychological edge in game which is nice. I have done a few things different. I have been active with the first reaper to make sure they are not 4 gating. 1 scout reaper is not uncommon and if I keep scouting by the front they rarely think to put some defense by the mineral line. I should say I do this just before the nitro finishes to not reveal the factory tech.

I can't say I would make this my default build in ladder but I would definitely use in a set against a protoss player.

Kiri

United States84 Posts

September 15 2011 09:46 GMT

#86

Having a large assortment of builds is always a good thing, especially when facing the same opponent or playing in a tournament ^^

Marooned

Norway161 Posts

September 15 2011 18:16 GMT

#87

Did some testing in yabot to measure this build against my three go to mmmvg style builds.

The stats are all after 10 minutes in game. And the end goal is the same in all builds: 4 rax (2 with tech lab), reactored starport, +1 attack, stim, shields and conc. shells.

Here are what Ive discovered:

Kiri's reaper build:
43 workers
73 supply
255 min - 50 gas in bank
All upgrades and buildings completed, 3 medivacs out at 10 min mark, with 4th on the way.

Gasless expand:
50 workers
96 supply
With 115 min - 25 gas in bank at 10 min.
All upgrades and buildings are completed, and 2 medivacs just started.

Marauder expand (1 marauder with in and out of gas Thorzain style):
46 workers
86 supply
230 min - 70 gas in bank
All upgrades and buildings completed, 2 medivacs just about to complete.

Reactor 2 rax:
43 workers
81 supply
265 min - 64 gas in bank.
All upgrades and buildings completed, reactored starport halfway done.

This are just numbers ofc. but the results are after several tests with each builds where the most optimal end result I could accomplish are the ones above.

Marauder expand and gasless are defensive macro builds ofc, so I included reactor first 2 rax too, to ad a pressure build for comparison.

Hope this can be of use for someone out there

Kiri

United States84 Posts

September 15 2011 22:47 GMT

#88

=P, very cool Marooned

Crytch

Germany135 Posts

October 01 2011 14:57 GMT

#89

I played this build over...12-15 times and mostly i won.
But i made the experience, that you have to build a hellion after switch the second racks with your fac.
With that hellion you let the protoss player do some things:
-he maybe think you go cloak banshees and he will drop down a robo and observer
-he maybe think you go 1-1-1 and he will transition into smt zealot heavy build

but the most important thing your hellion do is: you can poke at his choke/expansion and get his attention. he will try to kill your hellion with his units so your 4 reapers can jump in his mainbase, kill a ton of workers and scout all he is doing.