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Introduction: Hey guys i'm Kiri a Rank 4 Masters Terran player coming here to share with you a build i created specifically for TvP.
![[image loading]](http://www.sc2mapster.com/thumbman/avatars/6/373/160x213/Reaper_1.jpg.-m0.png)
The Reaper - Highly mobile anti-infantry unit that does extra damage to buildings and light units... This unit is very capable in regards to harassment, obtaining map control, scouting an opponents base easily and being able to destroy light units in small numbers.
Present day use of the Reaper: At the moment reapers are still used for scouting early or perhaps taking a few workers away from an opponent but for the most part have been deemed "dead" or "no longer viable to do damage"....
What!?... For a while I actually believed the rumors and also felt as if the reaper was no longer going to be used because of the Nitro pack being moved to Tier 2... But i couldn't believe that a unit such as the reaper would be completely nullified just because you cant get the speed as fast as you did before... So I experimented and tested out build orders until I found a smooth transitional build that did not sacrifice economy and did not sacrifice tech.
Build Order:
10 - depot
12 - Barracks (tech lab after 2 marines)
13 - gas
16 - orbital
18 - factory @100% Tech lab
19 - gas
20 - reaper
21 - Bunker
21 - Barracks @100% swap onto Factory Tech lab
23 - Nitro Pack
6 minute - CC
Execution: You'll want to move out right when you have 4 reapers and make sure you threw down a CC as well. In order to pull this build off you'll need to take your reapers around the back or side of his base near the cliffs and rush towards the mineral line. Your first priority is taking out as many probes as possible before the protoss army meets up with you.
The protoss will most likely have 2 stalkers 3 zealots and a sentry or two so you definitely cant take him head on. After doing as much damage that you can you'll want to run your reapers in the opposite direction of the protoss and plan to fly out the base (so plan a trajectory before entering the base). After doing damage and getting out you'll most likely have only lost 1 reaper and taken out over half of his economy.
Follow up: From here on you just have to keep your lead.. You float your CC that you upgraded into an orbital to your natural, put a reactor on your factory and a starport up for medivacs and throw down 2 barracks to help you with your MMM. Put 2 bunkers up at your natural expansion in order to defend against possible all-ins that the protoss will try to do after your harassment, and if he does decide to do this you then run your reapers in and take out everything.
Adaptation: You'll want to send in a scouting scv to his natural to see if he's on one base, if so scan his main and try to look for any tech that may give you an idea of what he is doing. Cancel the fast expansion, throw down an e-bay, 3 barracks, and 3 bunkers while still sneaking into his base with the reapers. It's most likely a void ray all in or a Dt expand/drop. Remember no build is the end-all build that destroys everything. Every style has a weakness, learn to adapt to your scouting and counter accordingly.
Replay:
Yes i know that i may have made some macro mistakes at some point (sometimes i lose focus because of microing habits) but the overall build order and execution of the build is solid.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-230571.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-230572.jpg)
Here's a recent replay of me macroing better ^^
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-231259.jpg)
This toss did 3 gate pressure into expansion, to hold off early gate pressure keep the reapers at home then counter after he pulls away.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-231293.jpg)
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Will check Replay and post opinions....
Sounds viable...
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I've used this sort of thing and have had it used against me. Thanks for the actual write up. =D
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Looking forward to trying this one out...
It seems like any real heavy pressure build from protoss, 3/4 gate and the VR all in like you mentioned, would be crazy hard to hold off with this build though.
I feel like even with speed, reapers really aren't too good at killing anything other than workers until you have a lot more than four of them, so there isn't a ton of early game defense for terran in this build.
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Well scouting definitely comes into play when deciding whether or not to do this build mogwai.
If you look at the builds opening its basically a standard 1-1-1 until you actually deviate to make a 2nd rax and go for reapers. So if you scout something funny or see that he's not expanding you can easily transition into a seige/expand or 1-1-1 push that we've been seeing all over the place ^^
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hi im a bronze lague T i would not build reapers in pvt because stalkers kill them in 4 hits and reapers take longer to kill them. in pvt i make many marines and marauders because voidrays are very good. sometimes i build battlecruisers in lategame but only if my metagame was good enough.
sry for my bad english
hope i could help
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^
troll?
User was warned for this post
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On September 09 2011 02:45 yagsllab wrote:
hi im a bronze lague T i would not build reapers in pvt because stalkers kill them in 4 hits and reapers take longer to kill them. in pvt i make many marines and marauders because voidrays are very good. sometimes i build battlecruisers in lategame but only if my metagame was good enough.
sry for my bad english
hope i could help
yagsllab has spoken. Make marines and Marauders!
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In bronze, reapers are obviously underpowered.
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On September 09 2011 02:45 yagsllab wrote:
hi im a bronze lague T i would not build reapers in pvt because stalkers kill them in 4 hits and reapers take longer to kill them. in pvt i make many marines and marauders because voidrays are very good. sometimes i build battlecruisers in lategame but only if my metagame was good enough.
sry for my bad english
hope i could help
I think you misunderstood the goal of this build. The reapers should avoid a head on fight. If there is even one stalker, the four reapers should back off. It would be nice to snipe a sentry though. After the reaper harass, you damage his economy, know his tech, ad can bunker up at your natural and maintain your lead with mmm(and possibly ghost Viking) as long as he doesn't 3gate stargate, you will head into the midgame with a substantial lead, and excellent scouting information
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On September 09 2011 02:45 yagsllab wrote:
hi im a bronze lague T i would not build reapers in pvt because stalkers kill them in 4 hits and reapers take longer to kill them. in pvt i make many marines and marauders because voidrays are very good. sometimes i build battlecruisers in lategame but only if my metagame was good enough.
sry for my bad english
hope i could help
I think you misunderstood the goal of this build. The reapers should avoid a head on fight. If there is even one stalker, the four reapers should back off. It would be nice to snipe a sentry though. After the reaper harass, you damage his economy, know his tech, ad can bunker up at your natural and maintain your lead with mmm(and possibly ghost Viking) as long as he doesn't 3gate stargate, you will head into the midgame with a substantial lead, and excellent scouting information
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I think this work because the 1/1/1 is too strong.
And when you see the factory, you must respond to it, or you will die!
*true story from me.
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On September 09 2011 02:45 yagsllab wrote:
hi im a bronze lague T i would not build reapers in pvt because stalkers kill them in 4 hits and reapers take longer to kill them. in pvt i make many marines and marauders because voidrays are very good. sometimes i build battlecruisers in lategame but only if my metagame was good enough.
sry for my bad english
hope i could help
Don't waste your effort guys, this guy is an epic troll. However I do encourage you to check his post history for some lols.
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Nice build. I love it when I see a second barracks and no second gas against Terran. Anytime they tech, it is almost impossible to know what exactly is coming. And this build just adds to that.
However, in the replay vs Boyo, if he had activated Guardian Shield when his 4 Sentries + Stalker met the 4 Reapers, he wouldn't have lost all of his Sentries.
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Nice to see reapers having some more use than just scouting.
In those 2 replays posted (esp Tal Darim one) u killed ~ 18-20 probes, but were still behind on worker count after a few mins due to lack of macro. Really need to queue scvs better for a rank 4 masters......
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On September 09 2011 02:45 yagsllab wrote:
hi im a bronze lague T i would not build reapers in pvt because stalkers kill them in 4 hits and reapers take longer to kill them. in pvt i make many marines and marauders because voidrays are very good. sometimes i build battlecruisers in lategame but only if my metagame was good enough.
sry for my bad english
hope i could help
im cracking so hard best post ever hahahaha
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Just seems really gimmicky, you are relying your opponent to not leave a unit in there base/mineral line. Aside from that seems ok strat.
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On September 09 2011 02:45 yagsllab wrote:
hi im a bronze lague T i would not build reapers in pvt because stalkers kill them in 4 hits and reapers take longer to kill them. in pvt i make many marines and marauders because voidrays are very good. sometimes i build battlecruisers in lategame but only if my metagame was good enough.
sry for my bad english
hope i could help
This post made me laugh a bit. I also noticed his name backwards spells "ballsgay". I'm guessing this is just a random troll.
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On September 09 2011 08:07 ma70 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 02:45 yagsllab wrote:
hi im a bronze lague T i would not build reapers in pvt because stalkers kill them in 4 hits and reapers take longer to kill them. in pvt i make many marines and marauders because voidrays are very good. sometimes i build battlecruisers in lategame but only if my metagame was good enough.
sry for my bad english
hope i could help
This post made me laugh a bit. I also noticed his name backwards spells "ballsgay". I'm guessing this is just a random troll.
yeah i reported his posts, lets not make any more commotion about it guys
should be discussing the strat of this reaper guide!
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This build looks very creative. I'm going to check your replays right now 
Thank you for sharing
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How dead do you end up in case of a 4gate? Even 3 gate stalker pressure sounds really scary with this.
Sounds like a complete metagame build, protoss pretty much have to 1 gate fe or lose to 1/1/1 nowadays. As soon as it gets fixed I feel this will get rolled...
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@Kenshi235 - Haha, yes i really need to queue workers when microing heavily. But remember that mules = 4 workers.... so basically if we're both on two base then add 8 more harvesters to the worker count plz.
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@Leargle - Of course for any race an all in from the opposing player is difficult to deal with, which is why scouting is still an important aspect of this build. If you scout something getting ready to come at anytime just transition into a heavy defence with 2 rax and a factory or skip the 2nd barracks and just go 1-1-1 with bunkers at your ramp.
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This looks like a lot of fun cannot wait to watch the replays
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Thanks for posting this up
Time to fire up a custom and give it a blast.
<edit> wow, ♥'in this
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The game on Tal'darim Alter made me soooo happy!!! Your build is timed out so well. Your reapers come out RIGHT as nitro packs finish. You get your stim, +1 attack, an expansion, and a starport and additonal barracks. And protoss cannot do anything about it because he's dealing with these speed reapers.
Then the drop at 9:46. Oh my sweet lord, stim finished right as you send your drop out. And you add 4 more barracks, why is this safe to do? Because he is dealing with your drop!
The only part of your build that I do not understand is the push at 14:39. You did some serious unit cutting to afford additional barracks, so you get that advantage at a later time. I do see that you get an expansion during this push, but I would much prefer a poke with all your forces but no commitment to a fight. As you accomplish the same goal and that is safely getting your expansion up, and I don't see why that attack should kill your opponent.
For real not enough players have as well timed builds as you. I kinda wish this was a little more upgrade intensive, but you definitely aroused me! (intellectually speaking of course)
edit: I am so swiping this build!
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Definitely TBone, timing attacks like this depend on precise timing and precision when executing (not saying you need to be a high masters to pull off this build). The reason i attacked the front is because i use the drops and the reapers to split the protoss army thin across his base and then i hit the front with a large army to overwhelm. Usually it works but i guess its just because he went for alot of zealots and it was a bad engagement. But it worked out fine because i knew i was far ahead of my opponent and had enough vikings to take out any amount of collosus he'd muster up. I like how you analyzed the replay and realized how smooth the transition was =]. gj!
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I also love how you don't have constant unit production during harassment or pushes and you spend your money on additional infrastructure. I find that it allows you to explode into the late game. And I also appreciate how you don't auto pilot on getting addons. I think the reactor is very over rated. Definitely made a fan of me and I'll be sure to check out your stream!
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On September 09 2011 03:47 scudst0rm wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 02:45 yagsllab wrote:
hi im a bronze lague T i would not build reapers in pvt because stalkers kill them in 4 hits and reapers take longer to kill them. in pvt i make many marines and marauders because voidrays are very good. sometimes i build battlecruisers in lategame but only if my metagame was good enough.
sry for my bad english
hope i could help
Don't waste your effort guys, this guy is an epic troll. However I do encourage you to check his post history for some lols.
LOL where do I find more of this guy. Shit is great.
One of my favs of his on:
"How did you choose your current race? "
On September 09 2011 00:23 yagsllab wrote:
when you click on multiplayer there are 4 buttons click the one you want to play and then you have youre race
sry for my bad english
hope i could help
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Funnily enough, reaper based builds like this would currently destroy a lot of oGs style protoss because they build a lot of sentries and not a lot of stalkers. ballsgay is a pretty obvious troll...
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I'm not bronze league, but I think that the scouting and pressure from a 2 rax is way more powerful, and it will draw all the units to the front, giving you just as good of intel.
The investment into reaper speed and a factory and reapers sinks a lot of time, delaying stim pushes and marauder pressure, which means you'll straight up die to a good deal of attacks, you'll be able to scout them some of the time, but you won't have the tools to react.
Good metagame vs abusive sentry builds (like 1 gate FE into 4 sentries with a single stalker into double forge colo)
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Exactly Plexa, i had a game where he only had 3 sentries and a zealot (with a stalker and zealot pushing out i believe) and after i destroyed most of his economy i took out the sentries/zealot in his base and then just left while he warped in stalkers =]
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Your build has some merit, I wonder on which maps where this reaper speed opening would be really strong on. Your replays looked promising by taking full advantage of protoss' FE also I enjoyed how you scouted protoss before you even made a reaper otherwise it would have be disastrous should protoss have chosen a tech build.
Your replays show a reaper opening against protoss FE, what about other builds that protoss does? Like what if protoss decides on DT, blink tech, 3 gate pressure into expand or 4gate.
Furthermore I remember seeing a daily relating to reapers against protoss where the Terran got 12 reapers and poked n harassed all parts of protoss' base thus pinning him inside his base. Maybe you can consider that an option and maybe take 2 expansions to follow up.
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Well CatNzHat stim timing pushes and 2 rax expands are so burned into a protoss players memory that they arent even really threats to them. All the months and hours they've spent playing Sc 2 has been spent holding off Marine/Marauder pressure. Sometimes its nice to mix it up a little wouldnt ya say? ^^ (Also this build lets you expand at 6 minutes which is relatively quick)
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being a zerg, i really like the idea of using reapers as counter attack measures vs a protoss attack. however, if you are already ahead (and he's all inning), your biggest concern should be surving the all-in, not getting more ahead.
Now what i think is the most unexplored part of reapers is using them defensively. they have a higher dps than marines and cost 1 supply, so when you put them in a bunker they melt zealots and even stalker like butter. I feel like just having a bunker or 2 full of reapers and bio (with reapers being the higher priority unit) would stop any 4 gate dead on its tracks and would be an instawin if you've already done damage
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I'm gonna learn this build tonight and try it tomorrow on the ladder. I'm diamond right now so I may not be able to do it as well as you, but I really like the idea. If I upload a replay of me playing it would you be able to take the time to check it out Kiri?
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Wow cool! I was trying to get a reaper build to work for ever a long time ago :D Glad people haven't completely given up on it!
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Sure TBone just add me on Sc 2 and send me a msg :D, i'll analyze your timings/transition on the stream
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Can't look at replays right now, can someone tell me what the timing is when you arrive at P base? As a side note can people start including their timings in their posts instead of food counts. There's an excellently precise way to evaluate the game, and people are still using the dated BW food count style.
P 1base plays hit between 7:10-7:30, so if you are arriving between 6-7m, you won't have time to react and the game will be over. Otherwise, 1st reaper can most likely confirm no expo at 5m if you hug outside routes. But no expo should be obvious already because of 1gas.
So I'm just trying to figure out how you survive any 1 base plays other than sentry contain.
1. VR + pylon
2. Elevator
3. Blink allin
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You hit at 6m and also you scout if the protoss is on one base or not with a scan, if he is then you build additional bunkers and just pump out units rather than production facilities
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This just adds to the possibility of builds terrans can do, completely demolishes any 1gate FE that tried to be safe against 2rax MM ( kills every sentry) . It's a nice build, and adds on the possibility of play terrans can do.
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I hit a Protoss going one base Void Ray Stalker all in (Gold KR) and luckily I messed up the build and ended up with a reactor rax instead of a CC and scared him off while my 4 Speed Reapers killed all his Probes and sniped a few Artosis Pylons.
I like this build, with the recent trend in 1 base all-ins by Protoss it can be a bit risky and scary early on, but Speed Reapers are fun as hell, thanks for the guide, bookmarked!
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No problem man! Reapers definitely need to be utilized more often ^^ (but actually it might be better so protoss dont get used to dealing with them)
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I looked at the 2 Replays and hmh.. i dont know...
You were back in Supply & Economy (!) in both games, but you played great after and
denied @ game 1 the 3rd of the P with great drops
n @ game 2 dunno, the P wasted colussos n you reacted rly nice with your viking / midivac play, gj !
I like Reapers, but i dont know bout this build..i feel like you only rly should do this against sentry fe ..
Seems weak, but fun ! ( @ game 2 you atked nice with your 4 reapers at the same time  )
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so the reaper will mainly do the damage early game ?
mid to late will only be used if the enemy decide to leave their base ?
i think this should be viable in other MU also
why would u think this only works in TvP
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Well Vertical in TvZ the queen is always in the main base and at 6 minutes the zerg usually already has speedlings. There is a small probability that you will actually pull off enough dmg to pay for the reapers (even with speed the reapers are still slower than speedlings). In TvT yes its still viable but there are so many other things to worry about in a mirror match up such as that, and reapers just cant really hold a tank push/banshee harass/hellion drop(usually 4 hellions beat 4 reapers with splash).
Which is why i chose TvP because of the small amount of units toss has early game and that the stalkers (although great at taking reapers damage) take a while to actually kill the reapers.
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Awww man, dont do this to me, I dont want to have even more awesome T builds pop up and ruin my switch to Z...
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On September 09 2011 23:36 Kiri wrote:
Well Vertical in TvZ the queen is always in the main base and at 6 minutes the zerg usually already has speedlings. There is a small probability that you will actually pull off enough dmg to pay for the reapers (even with speed the reapers are still slower than speedlings). In TvT yes its still viable but there are so many other things to worry about in a mirror match up such as that, and reapers just cant really hold a tank push/banshee harass/hellion drop(usually 4 hellions beat 4 reapers with splash).
Which is why i chose TvP because of the small amount of units toss has early game and that the stalkers (although great at taking reapers damage) take a while to actually kill the reapers.
I had some thoughts about Reapers in TvT , isnt there a timing before the first tank comes? Could you delay the first tank somehow ? Would you do ennough dmg , so when the tank comes you are ahead?
If there is a timing-window this would be sick ! I mean, if the T doesnt go for a Marauder, he will surely have some problems with 4v4 Reaper - Marine i mean. ( I am not sure if this works with Nitro pack ) .
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Like it, will definetly try.
TvP isnt my best MU, so i always try to search new openings, but this looks.... not realy solid.
Dont missunderstood me, i love to use reaper, and i love to use reaper in TvP, but i think every early pressure of protoss will knock you out. Even with a bunker and 4 marines in it he will just rush in your base and overkill.
Your 4 reapers wont be able to help at all, so you try to coutnergo with your reapers, but he warp in 1 or 2 stalker and gg.
Or am i wrong?
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Tried it in ladder on Xelnaga and kinda failed with my reaper, just got 6 workers and some zealots or smt like that cause of a missclick, but a good opening imo.
As you said, you arent behind in tech and can transition in everything you want. Like it, will train it some more.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-230742.jpg)
/edit: Ah, and was supplyblocked at 3/4 reapers on 27..... -.-'
So i gone with 5 reapers :D
Should write down the exact buildorder, my feeling isnt that exact. :-/
/edit#2: Got another protoss, so i tried it again. Here is the replay. This time i wasnt that early supplyblocked, and my reapers lived lil bit longer. ^_^
Replay:
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-230747.jpg)
/another edit: In both games this nasty protossplayer stole my second gas before i was able to grab it, it didnt delayed that much, but kinda sucked -.-'
/edit #125463: My next laddergame was against a terran, and cause i was bored cause of TvT i tried your TvP build against this terran, and wonder, it worked. :D :D
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-230753.jpg)
Very funny build, love it ♥
Thx for sharing.
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Haha, very nice man gj. But remember to build the 2nd barracks near the factory, because you're swapping it onto the tech lab that you make from the factory
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This is very unreliable source, how do we know that your not coping these strategies from someone else? I have seen this before, I have tried it, and it doesn't work, you need to cite your sources dude, seriously, this opening is not solid whatsoever. Crytch failed twice on TvT, so this opening is only good for TvP build against terran????!
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There are no sources other than my own replays (unless someone perhaps did something similar i wouldn't know). I took hours and hours just refining and practicing this build on ladder and in customs with friends. If you've tried it and it doesn't work for you then maybe you're just doing it wrong?? There are alot of people that have done it with success. Gl and i hope you get better at the build so you can enjoy using reapers more often
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Your replay is one-sided, showing a reaper opening against protoss FE is not enough!! you need to provide multiple replays with other builds that protoss might have against terran. you have no idea what protoss might throw at you, like a 3 or 4 gate pressure into expand, DT and blink tech.
I've seen this one replay with reapers going against protoss, Terran got 12 reapers and demolished all life forms of protoss' base which got his panties in a bundle with no where to go. YOU SHOULD
TAKE 2 EXPANSIONS TO MAKE SURE!!!
NONETHELESS, YOU SUCK AT MAKING REPLAYS AND STRATEGY FORUMS, DON'T LISTEN
TO THIS JERK!!
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On September 10 2011 09:28 XstRAYerX84 wrote:
Your replay is one-sided, showing a reaper opening against protoss FE is not enough!! you need to provide multiple replays with other builds that protoss might have against terran. you have no idea what protoss might throw at you, like a 3 or 4 gate pressure into expand, DT and blink tech.
I've seen this one replay with reapers going against protoss, Terran got 12 reapers and demolished all life forms of protoss' base which got his panties in a bundle with no where to go. YOU SHOULD
TAKE 2 EXPANSIONS TO MAKE SURE!!!
NONETHELESS, YOU SUCK AT MAKING REPLAYS AND STRATEGY FORUMS, DON'T LISTEN
TO THIS JERK!!
Why are you attacking this guy for making a potential TvP strat? He has his reasonings, logic, build order, and even some replays to go with it.
If you don't like it, just don't use it but no need to go telling him he's a jerk.
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I would even go as far as to show the factory building to the scouting probe, make the toss think its a 1-1-1 or mech build. Otherwise, seeing the tech lab on the rax, the toss could go for a 3-gate pressure which would give you huge problems as you don't have the DPS against a mixed gateway army from busting you. Otherwise, its a decent build and really punishes toss who don't scout and have poor minimap awareness.
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On September 10 2011 09:28 XstRAYerX84 wrote:
Your replay is one-sided, showing a reaper opening against protoss FE is not enough!! you need to provide multiple replays with other builds that protoss might have against terran. you have no idea what protoss might throw at you, like a 3 or 4 gate pressure into expand, DT and blink tech.
I've seen this one replay with reapers going against protoss, Terran got 12 reapers and demolished all life forms of protoss' base which got his panties in a bundle with no where to go. YOU SHOULD
TAKE 2 EXPANSIONS TO MAKE SURE!!!
NONETHELESS, YOU SUCK AT MAKING REPLAYS AND STRATEGY FORUMS, DON'T LISTEN
TO THIS JERK!!
CAptain Capslock is on the bridge... you know what parents tell to their kindergarden-kids? Whoever scream in a conversation is wrong, lying or both just to conceal that he has no arguments. You flame him for his Opening? Hes trying something new? I bet you tried it once, failed hard and now your angry and search the culprit but dont see that it was your fault cause you just sucks?
Crytch failed twice on TvT, so this opening is only good for TvP build against terran????!
I dont understand the sense of this?!
Yeah, i tried this TvP-Opening against a terran player, what is nosense, but i was bored of the TvT metagame as i wrote before, so why you fucking care how i play my TvT's? I dont said that this opening WORKS WELL against other Terrans, i just wanted to share this game with you (the liquidpedia-reader) cause i wondered myself cause i won with that funny shit.
And btw. why i failed? Twice? I tried it one time against Terran, and two times against Protoss and all my games i won. So why you said i or the opening failed?
If YOU cant handle with it gtfo and troll another thread, this isnt the right place for little kids without arguments which are capslocking and flaming around like lil fa***.
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Did another one in ladder, and i faced a protoss who opened/allined with a vr/3gate. Enjoy 
+ Show Spoiler +I think if this guy build his stargate proxy he won. Think i won cause i was able to snipe the pylon which powered his stargate and one of his gates.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-230870.jpg)
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On September 11 2011 02:45 Crytch wrote:Did another one in ladder, and i faced a protoss who opened/allined with a vr/3gate. Enjoy + Show Spoiler +I think if this guy build his stargate proxy he won. Think i won cause i was able to snipe the pylon which powered his stargate and one of his gates.
This guy just locked himself real hard on that all-in. He had no follow up plan. He was floating 700 minerals around the 10 min mark for a good couple of minutes. He could easily have expanded while still tried to do pressure, and he was up 27 harvesters to 14.
Nice defence though Seems like a very good build, but still it would die to void ray all-in, blink and 4 gate with sentrys would contain for a really long time. But build still seems good. Every build has weaknesses. GJ
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Hmh, dont think that sentry contain or 4 gate would hit hard. In that time you can go in with your reapers and harras his eco, and drop after with medivacs.
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Maybe When 4 gate hits you dont really have many units back home with this build though. I dont see how you can hold, and yeah, you can take out his eco, but that doesnt matter if he is all up in your face/base;p Now, I understand this build is not meant against a 4 gate at all, and with the general opener it seems pretty safe if you do some scouting and dont commit to the reapers. You can potentially have very early medivacs, so sentry contain wouldnt be good at all. I take that back ^^
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Btw guys if you're afraid of all ins and 1 base protoss plays you can throw down 3 barracks earlier before you push out (because thats the money you were saving for an expansion) and use them to make units to defend an all in. Before you go out with the reapers you have a scan ready to you should scan the natural to see if he has units in front and a nexus down alraedy. Thats what you want to see, If he has no units there and no nexus then throw down an e-bay (for dts), 2 barracks and a starport with a reactor on the factory. You should be able to hold 3-4 gates/void ray all ins and dts but all you have to do is cancel your cc and use that money towards defending your base.
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This is actually a really bad build. In each of your replays you put yourself behind be 15+ food, 30 food in the first one I watched. You got no advantage at all from the reapers... you dont execute the build even close to similar in each game other than the reapers. All you had to say to give TL the value of this "guide" was say reapers are pretty good with nitro packs if your opponent doesn't know theyre coming... and even then you'd need to come up with some replays that actually show this. Sorry for being harsh but I can't describe the disappointment I felt going from reading the prospect of a solid reaper opening and then seeing the replays you provide to display it.
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@Jayrod
In the build i stated that i may not have macro'd perfectly but the overall opening/transition itself is definitely solid. Idk if you understand this but... if the worker count is even then Terran is ahead. Also how is the protoss going to see them? You wall off to deny scouting and also they go out before an observer comes (unless he goes 1 gate robo, in which you can scout it with your scv and transition into something else. ALSO this build is a fast expansion build, you dont NEED to do damage in order to not be behind. You just need to do a little damage to pay for the reapers (4 reapers arent that much.. about 2 sentries and a zealot). It all depends on how you transition and go along with the game. I never said this is an automatic win build
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On September 11 2011 11:04 Jayrod wrote:
This is actually a really bad build. In each of your replays you put yourself behind be 15+ food, 30 food in the first one I watched. You got no advantage at all from the reapers... you dont execute the build even close to similar in each game other than the reapers. All you had to say to give TL the value of this "guide" was say reapers are pretty good with nitro packs if your opponent doesn't know theyre coming... and even then you'd need to come up with some replays that actually show this. Sorry for being harsh but I can't describe the disappointment I felt going from reading the prospect of a solid reaper opening and then seeing the replays you provide to display it.
Of course you get behind in food. You build reapers, they take a ton of time to build... And you dont need to do game-ending damage with your reapers. After testing this 7-8 games my observation is 1. it dies real hard to stalker zealot 4 gate (bad scouting on my part) 2. against fe builds it seems very strong. The real charm is that you get a reasonable fast expo and still a lot of tech. I have gone 3 rax, reactor starport as a direct follow up, and early drops. Most of the games I have done about 4-5 probes and a pylons worth of damage with the reapers(not exactly huge). But if you keep your reapers alive they are kind of stuck in their base for a while. This is the really nice part, giving you time to start to get production rolling.
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Kiri do you have any games of your trying to hold off a void ray counter? What seems to work better dropping the S-port or moving to all stim maines?
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Id say throwing down 3 barracks and getting stim/shield would be good. Remember this is just the stable fast expansion of the build (assuming that the protoss is playing standard). if you know your protoss is on one base (scouting with an scv) then you have to scan his base and try to see any tech that would allow you to know what hes doing. If you see that before you go out with the reapers he's still on one base then you'll want to stay on one base yourself and prepare for his all in. Also throw down an e-bay just because dt builds are quite popular as well.
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Wow I played you. You said "going cloak banshee" while doing it you jerk t.t
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Not sure, youre overmaking it by saying it will be the new metagame.. If this is gonna get popular, for toss players it only means they have to leave stalker or two at home all game long.. Annoying, but definetely not that big of the deal... also youre making techlab on rax for your factory, that can tell me outright youre not going for crazy 1-1-1 allin.(and even more will make me suspicious that reapers are coming - speed on them is obviously not gonna be my guess heh) So until it gets popular and known it will work pretty good, after that, not so much Nice write up matie!
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Just tried this build. It may just be my execution but... what do you do if the protoss hits with a 4gate just after your reapers move out? 2 marines and a couple of marauders in a bunker didn't hold against 4gate.
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YoshGo try this out, leave a stalker in your mineral line and then see how long it takes to kill 4 reapers and see how many probes they will take out.
leecx, remember i said you have to scout =/. Leave an scv at the protoss natural to check for expansions. If there are none then you're going to have to get ready for for an all in push. I also mentioned before you need to throw down bunkers and barracks at your wall off on the ramp. 4 gates are actually pretty easy to hold with bunkers and scvs to repair. If hes really doing a giant all in 4 gate and being heavily behind in econ you can just put the reapers into a bunker because the economic damage has already been done
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Had someone do this to me on ladder... Needless to say, obs saw it. I saw on the cliff, FF'd and lold. then went on to win the game.
Hope it works for you though ^_^
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As a Zerg player who's done Team Games with Kiri and Kiri went Mass Reaper It's also a good Strategy in Team Games To Snipe Enemy Players Buildings Drones Etc...
Most people just don't expect it.
Also Kiri is a Boss you guys should check out his stream.
As a Diamond Zerg i can never beat him because he is that much of a Boss.
I was just telling him to use this Build against Protoss (And I didn't even know he made a thread about it) Because i remember he used to do this kind of stuff in our Team Games...
Lol GG !
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Kiri me and a friend were talking have your tried sniping the pylons instead of the mineral line. Protoss will only have like 2-3 pylons and 4 reapers can two shot them. Your stop the protoss for almost 30-40 seconds and they have to spend around 400 minerals to rebuild their supply.
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On September 09 2011 02:45 yagsllab wrote:
hi im a bronze lague T i would not build reapers in pvt because stalkers kill them in 4 hits and reapers take longer to kill them. in pvt i make many marines and marauders because voidrays are very good. sometimes i build battlecruisers in lategame but only if my metagame was good enough.
sry for my bad english
hope i could help
Is it me or is yagsllab actually ballsgay backwards? lol...anyway love the build, I'm not terran but I'm happy that nitropacks are used...
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Well jecktor thats actually a very good tactic to use "if" the protoss is 1 base all ining you. You can delay his 3 gates or stargate so he cant attack and while you fast expand ^^. Gj
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still, say i play protoss...how do I defend this already? ^^
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I want to start off first by saying that I appreciate the effort you put into this and in sharing with the TL community. It's an interesting build and it's nice that someone found a way to get reapers going in one of the matchups.
That being said, I feel that Jayrod was correct although overly harsh in his assesment. In the first two games you are well behind after the reaper harass. I was looking at what would be different if you just did a normal FE build and surely you would be closer in workers and supply but maybe a little behind in buildings. It seems that you get faster medivacs with your build which leads me to the next point. It's your drop play that won you those games. You are really good with drop harassment and that is killing them. Clearly, as you stated, your macro falls quite a bit while microing reapers so maybe a player with superior multitasking would make this build look better.
Also, some of the toss are making somewhat foolish mistakes which you are exploiting nicely I might add. No pylons near edge of base, no thermal lance, walking a colossus to his death, one pylon powering three buildings etc.
Now in the last two replays, you crushed him early as a result of your build so clearly it has merit. It just seems that if you fail to do the expected damage, you will be too far behind.
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Well Bonesy, what im offering to you is an early unpredictable very mobile harass possibility with a quick expansion. Of course if you invest money into units and fail completely without doing any sort of damage you'll be behind. Thats like saying "well i went for an early marine/marauder poke but got forcefield trapped on the ramp and lost all my units without killing anything". Obviously if you lose units for nothing you'll be slightly behind. But most of the damage is guaranteed (to some degree) as well as saying most protoss make 1-3 sentries during the early stages of the game, if you kill 2 sentries and a zealot you basically pay for the reapers so any probes you take out along with the harassment is an added bonus.
I know this build isn't perfect and i took out my comment on this being the new meta-game TvP. But how you transition from this harassment is up to you. An expansion doesnt even have to be made, you can instead make 3 barracks and do a timing push with the reapers hitting the main base while you push the front. Play with it and experiment, im just giving an option of a way to utilize the Nitro pack upgrade for reapers.
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I have not had much chance to put this build into effect a lot (Im random making that a 1/9 chance for TvP) from what I can gather its does give a kind of psychological edge in game which is nice. I have done a few things different. I have been active with the first reaper to make sure they are not 4 gating. 1 scout reaper is not uncommon and if I keep scouting by the front they rarely think to put some defense by the mineral line. I should say I do this just before the nitro finishes to not reveal the factory tech.
I can't say I would make this my default build in ladder but I would definitely use in a set against a protoss player.
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Having a large assortment of builds is always a good thing, especially when facing the same opponent or playing in a tournament ^^
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Did some testing in yabot to measure this build against my three go to mmmvg style builds.
The stats are all after 10 minutes in game. And the end goal is the same in all builds: 4 rax (2 with tech lab), reactored starport, +1 attack, stim, shields and conc. shells.
Here are what Ive discovered:
Kiri's reaper build:
43 workers
73 supply
255 min - 50 gas in bank
All upgrades and buildings completed, 3 medivacs out at 10 min mark, with 4th on the way.
Gasless expand:
50 workers
96 supply
With 115 min - 25 gas in bank at 10 min.
All upgrades and buildings are completed, and 2 medivacs just started.
Marauder expand (1 marauder with in and out of gas Thorzain style):
46 workers
86 supply
230 min - 70 gas in bank
All upgrades and buildings completed, 2 medivacs just about to complete.
Reactor 2 rax:
43 workers
81 supply
265 min - 64 gas in bank.
All upgrades and buildings completed, reactored starport halfway done.
This are just numbers ofc. but the results are after several tests with each builds where the most optimal end result I could accomplish are the ones above.
Marauder expand and gasless are defensive macro builds ofc, so I included reactor first 2 rax too, to ad a pressure build for comparison.
Hope this can be of use for someone out there
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I played this build over...12-15 times and mostly i won.
But i made the experience, that you have to build a hellion after switch the second racks with your fac.
With that hellion you let the protoss player do some things:
-he maybe think you go cloak banshees and he will drop down a robo and observer
-he maybe think you go 1-1-1 and he will transition into smt zealot heavy build
but the most important thing your hellion do is: you can poke at his choke/expansion and get his attention. he will try to kill your hellion with his units so your 4 reapers can jump in his mainbase, kill a ton of workers and scout all he is doing.
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EPT
