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On August 16 2011 15:16 Fugue wrote:
Ultras are probably the best unit for this, but you're fast teching to hive and you could also get adrenal glands for cracklings. Quite a bit more larva intensive, but throwing down a 3rd queen/hatch might work. What resource is your real limiting factor in the build? If it's just gas then it sounds viable to me!
Gas is the limiting factor for sure. To comp, we all get gas, but are thrifty with it: Zerg uses it for tech, marines for a couple medivacs and Protoss gets stalkers, but then starts saving at 9 mins. At 9 mins we usually have 10-12 geysers being mined, so we can save it fast. If there is early pressure then Z usually gets cracklings to help hold it for a bit. If we can't expand then Zerg macro hatches for larva, but we can't mine quite as much gas, but it usually means we have a shared choke, so we can save our gas more.
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On August 16 2011 16:30 Aterons_toss wrote:
Iv one 2v2's after trolling my opponent by gas stealing him and putting gw's so he can't mine minerals ( and this is in diamond 2v2 ) so i say... meh its cool but honestly everything can win a team game imo...
Also, are ultras even cost efficient ? I know they are suply efficient but if i remember well they aren't even that good in a non maxed situation w/o queen suport.
Edit: Tested with a friend just for fun :D, the equivalent of 10 ultras worth of stalker archon ( 4 archons 20 stalkers ) actually kill 10 utrals w/o micro with 17 stalkers left, with micro from both all the stalker left and with micro from zerg 5 stalkers left. ( Yes the ultras have 1/1 and +2 armor up )
Edit: Some more test for fun and the equivalent of 1/1 + plate ultralisk res in 2/0 combat shield and stim rines also beats the ultras w.o any target firing, marauders also beat them by far even if you spend about 1/3 less res on them
So yeah... you might JUST might want to try another unit to dump money into... just sain.
Sometimes we lose the first push (if the enemy has everything ready like you mention), but by the time the first push dies off, we have the second wave of Ultras coming (12 more!), and teams can't keep up. Two interesting things here: 1) the SuperDave is really hard to scout the WTF build order, so most teams won't be able to be ready for it. You are right though, sometimes teams can build an anti-SuperDave. 2) Lucky for the SuperDave though, we can just change the strat, because it isn't an all-in and we all have macro'ed, and semi tech'ed.
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On August 16 2011 16:30 Aterons_toss wrote:
Iv one 2v2's after trolling my opponent by gas stealing him and putting gw's so he can't mine minerals ( and this is in diamond 2v2 ) so i say... meh its cool but honestly everything can win a team game imo...
Also, are ultras even cost efficient ? I know they are suply efficient but if i remember well they aren't even that good in a non maxed situation w/o queen suport.
Edit: Tested with a friend just for fun :D, the equivalent of 10 ultras worth of stalker archon ( 4 archons 20 stalkers ) actually kill 10 utrals w/o micro with 17 stalkers left, with micro from both all the stalker left and with micro from zerg 5 stalkers left. ( Yes the ultras have 1/1 and +2 armor up )
Edit: Some more test for fun and the equivalent of 1/1 + plate ultralisk res in 2/0 combat shield and stim rines also beats the ultras w.o any target firing, marauders also beat them by far even if you spend about 1/3 less res on them
So yeah... you might JUST might want to try another unit to dump money into... just sain.
Omg... Did you know that cost equivalent Vikings beat broodlords with 100% Vikings remaining?!
Point being you shouldn't be trying to compare a unit to it's counters for cost, no shit it will lose. Mm beats ultras, duh. Archon+stalker is a bullshit test because it's a unit composition designed to beat the single unit... A more fair test would be ultra hydra vs stalker archon, for example.
Edit: the late game units are more designed for supply efficiency over cost efficiency. Yes marines beat bc, ultra, carrier, anything for cost, but for supply they are hilariously inefficient.
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Awesome! did you make any optimizations?
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One thing you might consider is a baneling nest for the zerg. If you get caught off-guard before the Ultras hit the field, you can still do a resource transfer to turn the 20+ zerglings into a force capable of scaring off a bunch of T1 units. Also, speedbane+ultra is a very powerful low micro composition.
If you want to stick with pure Ultra, I'd work on optimizing the armor upgrade timings. +1 before lair, +2 ASAP, and chitinous plating before you start morphing ultras would give your zerg player +4 armor on the ultras by the time you got to a battlefield. With medivacs supporting, it'd be scary.
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This is amazing.
have you tried this in 2v2's or is this strictly a 3v3 thing?
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Heh, I'm loving it. I'll try to dave it up, but I don't know whether this will be effective at a bit higher level.
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On August 19 2011 11:14 hipsterdontlie wrote:
This is amazing.
have you tried this in 2v2's or is this strictly a 3v3 thing?
So far only 3's but due to recent success with this strategy we've been trying to adjust/tweak the strategy for 4's. More updates to come I guess, this is so hilarious I wish I could read the enemy chat when those Ultras pop up.
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At a glance of the thread, i thought this was another troll thread, however, i was proven wrong again. And this time, i found something extremely fun to try out in team games. Have you guys tried this with broodlord? I am sure broodlord works better in most situations if you have the ground AA/vikings to assist it. But keep up the good work, would love to see more replays from you guys.
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On August 30 2011 13:56 TolEranceNA wrote:
At a glance of the thread, i thought this was another troll thread, however, i was proven wrong again. And this time, i found something extremely fun to try out in team games. Have you guys tried this with broodlord? I am sure broodlord works better in most situations if you have the ground AA/vikings to assist it. But keep up the good work, would love to see more replays from you guys.
Broodlords is not as fast, and would add more build time... plus they move slow, so you won't be able to attack as fast. Basically, if you did broodlords instead then you would be in the enemy base 1-2 minutes after Ultras would be.
AND, it doesn't look as cool as a dozen Ultras at 11 minutes 
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Just played another one this morning. Even though our silly Terran didn't start playing for 1 minute, we still beat our best time:
http://drop.sc/31263
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I'm not very experienced in team games, but is it true that a Protoss can make the gas geysers for their teammates so that the SCV build time / Drone is not lost ? If so, why not add this to the build.
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On August 16 2011 11:18 AtlasHugged wrote: Terran- Just like single player: Marine Medi(vac)
- Zerg needs all your gas, don't build any medivacs until the Ultras are out.
- When the Ultra Cavern goes down, stop spending money. The only exception to that is to
- stay alive or
- saturate 4 gas geysers
- When the Ultra Cavern is done, send ALL YOUR MONEY to the zerg player
So... don't build medivacs?
Don't build medivacs before ultras... And dont spend your money after ultras... Haha. Where do the medivacs come in?
Anyway, this sounds like fun. Ultras are super powerful, the only problem is gettin the resources for them, and with this strat you alleviated that problem. I feel like it would lose to any competent early timing attack though
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On September 03 2011 04:50 Talco wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 11:18 AtlasHugged wrote: Terran- Just like single player: Marine Medi(vac)
- Zerg needs all your gas, don't build any medivacs until the Ultras are out.
- When the Ultra Cavern goes down, stop spending money. The only exception to that is to
- stay alive or
- saturate 4 gas geysers
- When the Ultra Cavern is done, send ALL YOUR MONEY to the zerg player
So... don't build medivacs? Don't build medivacs before ultras... And dont spend your money after ultras... Haha. Where do the medivacs come in? Anyway, this sounds like fun. Ultras are super powerful, the only problem is gettin the resources for them, and with this strat you alleviated that problem. I feel like it would lose to any competent early timing attack though
Sooo, medivacs come in after the first 8-10 ultras start being constructed. they are optional, but if the fight is going to be long, they are very useful.
It loses to a double or triple 4 gate, but most everything else can be held off. it's either so fast that the marines and defensive 4 gate can hold it, or too late and the ultras are out.
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On August 16 2011 16:46 Aterons_toss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 16:41 Diderick wrote:On August 16 2011 16:30 Aterons_toss wrote:
Iv one 2v2's after trolling my opponent by gas stealing him and putting gw's so he can't mine minerals ( and this is in diamond 2v2 ) so i say... meh its cool but honestly everything can win a team game imo...
Also, are ultras even cost efficient ? I know they are suply efficient but if i remember well they aren't even that good in a non maxed situation w/o queen suport. you realize were talking about 12 minutes in the game? Then they are costeffective. No they are not read what i wrote above and also consider that they are the only unit + few other scraped units at 12 minutes in the game.
Did you factor in a 4gate / 6gate, a couple Medivacs for the Ultras, and some MM with Lings? Or did you do 10 Ultras vs whatever?
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EPT
