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This is the Super Dave.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cEvsl.jpg)
Named after our team’s star bronze Zerg player (Dave; aka dukeFast), who is carried by our gold Terran (sypsixcahs) and our platinum Protoss (AtlasHugged).
We have a new strategy now: he carries us.
This is a 3v3 strat that works best with one representative from each race. I bet other matchups would work as well, but we have little experience to prove that. We set out to abuse 2 game mechanics and 1 underused unit.
- Larva
- Resource Transferring
- Ultralisks
We aren't fantastic players (or even good, some would say); but, we've managed to produce 10 Ultralisks @ 10:55 while holding off most early game pressure.
Unlike other races, the larva mechanic allows Zerg to produce effectively as many units as they can afford with only 1 production facility (assuming that unit is an Ultralisk…). This trait, when combined with the ability to flood 3 economies into a single player’s unit production cycle, yields some novel results.
This build is usable as is, and we have several examples below. However, we believe it can be made incredible, and as such are requesting the assistance of the Starcraft community. Can you make this build even better?
The Super Dave works like this:
Zerg
- Tech to ultra as fast as you can.
- Get early speed and roughly 20 zerglings to hold off any pressure.
- Expand or get a macro hatch
- Get double evo
- Get overseers
- Don't get supply capped when you should be building ultras.
Our best Zerg execution looked like this:
+ Show Spoiler +10 Extractor Trick
16 Hatch
16 Gas
16 Pool
19 Queen
19 Lair
*some zerglings
28 gas x 3
32 Queen
31 Infestation Pit
36 Hive
35 Double Evo -> upgrades at 100%
43 Ultra Cavern
43 Ultralisk x10
43 Chitinous Plating
MOAR ULTRALISKS
Protoss
- 3 gate expo into 6 gate or 4-gate
4-gate is actually an incredibly reasonable option if there isn't an easy natural for you to take. you don't actually need a good follow up, you just need a shit ton of units to keep the Zerg alive until 11:30. I've attempted this with blink stalkers, but results in simply not enough units.
- Get gas, lots of gas.
- When the Ultra Cavern goes down, stop spending money. the only exception to that is to
- Stay alive or
- Saturate 4 gas geysers
- When the Ultra Cavern is done, send ALL YOUR MONEY to the Zerg player
Terran
- Just like single player: Marine Medi(vac)
- Zerg needs all your gas, don't build any medivacs until the Ultras are out.
- When the Ultra Cavern goes down, stop spending money. The only exception to that is to
- stay alive or
- saturate 4 gas geysers
- When the Ultra Cavern is done, send ALL YOUR MONEY to the zerg player
Replays
Flagship
Our best performance
+ Show Spoiler +@10:55
10 Ultras
10 zerglings
1 zelot
6 stalkers
17 marines
Held off DT Harass
+ Show Spoiler +Ultra Cavern done at 9:10
6 ultras at 10:30
@11:37
41 zerglings
9 ultras
4 marines
8 stalkers
1 zealot
4 sentries
Early Zerg Pressure
+ Show Spoiler +@11:37
11 zerglings
8 ultras
1 zealot
9 stalkers
25 marines
Loss - proxy marines, 3 base banes
+ Show Spoiler +@11:35
11 ultras
5 marines...
Notes: must scout (duh). Need to protect Zerg player at all costs.
left alone - Close Game
+ Show Spoiler +@11:40
9 ultras
16 zerglings
9 stalkers
3 sentries
22 marines
Lol Mutas
Lost One Player
+ Show Spoiler +This replay is to demonstrate that the Super Dave can be successful even if one player is lost.
BM
Opposing team wouldn’t let us pause to fix a sound issue, BM ensues. Just for fun.
+ Show Spoiler +@11:40
6 ultras
24 zerglings
1 zelot
11 stalkers
7 sentries
39 marines!
Just Another Super Dave
+ Show Spoiler +11:24
7 ultras
32 zerglings
2 zelots
12 stalkers
1 sentry
23 marines
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/be1YB.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IP6my.jpg)
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AWESOME. THIS NEEDS TO BE IMPLEMENTED MORE.
Could also be used for carriers/battlecruisers right?
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I like everything about this ... but mainly the name!
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The most success I have had with this kind of money dumping was having one guy mass archons. Tried it with ultras once and died too early, but I'm sure it is deadly.
the cutest money dump I have had success with was giving a 6-raxing player 250 gas for stim and shields.
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@Chow, it is great for BC and Carrier but it will be roflstomped by any decent team unless using them to backstab off terrain.
The advantage of Ultras is that their AoE frontal attack and massive is brutual against tier 1 & 2 enemy units and that they block enemies from going into range of the quisher team member's tier 1 & 2 ranged units namely marine/stalkers.
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On August 16 2011 12:34 whoopingchow wrote:
AWESOME. THIS NEEDS TO BE IMPLEMENTED MORE.
Could also be used for carriers/battlecruisers right?
No this wouldn't work as well for BCs or Carriers, since youd need 6 stargates to build 6 at a time. With a zerg economy, and the afct that you can bank 17 larva per hatchery, i can see this build, if executed well, create 17 ultralisks at once off only 1 hatchery. i repeat: you only need one hatchery as opposed to 10 stargates or 10 starports or 10 robos or 10 factories.
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I wonder if the same thing can be done resource feeding to bcs/carriers
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Ultras are probably the best unit for this, but you're fast teching to hive and you could also get adrenal glands for cracklings. Quite a bit more larva intensive, but throwing down a 3rd queen/hatch might work. What resource is your real limiting factor in the build? If it's just gas then it sounds viable to me!
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On August 16 2011 14:18 tok wrote:
I wonder if the same thing can be done resource feeding to bcs/carriers
It wouldn't be as effective as you need multiple production buildings to get the units so fast, its zerg's larvae that makes this so powerful. 10 ultralisks at once, boom.
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The Super Dave, lol.
I've seen that tactic before in 2s with a protoss teammate, you do a standard 1base timing push except the protoss gets like 8 gates instead of 4, and after the initial push, the teammate doesnt build more units, they just feed the protoss resources to continue the push.
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There, you've ruined team games forever lol.
But some more specific questions, on the 3v3 maps that have u all at different bases, how do u def the zerg? especially since he's going hatch first.
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Iv one 2v2's after trolling my opponent by gas stealing him and putting gw's so he can't mine minerals ( and this is in diamond 2v2 ) so i say... meh its cool but honestly everything can win a team game imo...
Also, are ultras even cost efficient ? I know they are suply efficient but if i remember well they aren't even that good in a non maxed situation w/o queen suport.
Edit: Tested with a friend just for fun :D, the equivalent of 10 ultras worth of stalker archon ( 4 archons 20 stalkers ) actually kill 10 utrals w/o micro with 17 stalkers left, with micro from both all the stalker left and with micro from zerg 5 stalkers left. ( Yes the ultras have 1/1 and +2 armor up )
Edit: Some more test for fun and the equivalent of 1/1 + plate ultralisk res in 2/0 combat shield and stim rines also beats the ultras w.o any target firing, marauders also beat them by far even if you spend about 1/3 less res on them
So yeah... you might JUST might want to try another unit to dump money into... just sain.
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My friends and I probably do this better. The easiest way to do this is as tripple Z or 2 Z and a P. THe two zergs do a 10 pool for early pressure while the third person double or even triple expands and techs to mutas or stalkers and just rolls the opponent. Pretty damn easy.
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On August 16 2011 16:30 Aterons_toss wrote:
Iv one 2v2's after trolling my opponent by gas stealing him and putting gw's so he can't mine minerals ( and this is in diamond 2v2 ) so i say... meh its cool but honestly everything can win a team game imo...
Also, are ultras even cost efficient ? I know they are suply efficient but if i remember well they aren't even that good in a non maxed situation w/o queen suport.
you realize were talking about 12 minutes in the game? Then they are costeffective.
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On August 16 2011 16:41 Diderick wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 16:30 Aterons_toss wrote:
Iv one 2v2's after trolling my opponent by gas stealing him and putting gw's so he can't mine minerals ( and this is in diamond 2v2 ) so i say... meh its cool but honestly everything can win a team game imo...
Also, are ultras even cost efficient ? I know they are suply efficient but if i remember well they aren't even that good in a non maxed situation w/o queen suport. you realize were talking about 12 minutes in the game? Then they are costeffective.
No they are not read what i wrote above and also consider that they are the only unit + few other scraped units at 12 minutes in the game.
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I like this.
Team Games haven't been figured out nearly as much as 1on1s and this is a clear indicator for that (despite you not being all that serious about it).
With shared unit control and ressource trading there's so much that can be done in 2on2, I really wish there would be a more competitive scene around it.
Also of course, making the Bronze Zerg player in your team, who must've been feeling guilty for all your losses the superstar, by giving him a clear objective and sort of the main role in this strat is awesome. 
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lol...
im kinda high
but shittttttttt.........
EDIT:
on topic thoughhh
like how do you stop VR heavy comps from trip toss?
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Yeahhhhh!!!
I really like what you did, especially the way you star Bronze player is carried by the two others!
Thought out well (only works with ultra...) and a middle game plan to survive that is very nice!
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I'm thinking medivacs healing the ultras would make it even better.
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Cute... People like you guys piss me and my 2's partner off just because everything to it is an anti-timing, you cannot scout transfered money really. I see this strategy working much better with the zerg in question spending all his money on macro hatches and getting a fast spire and then getting 50 mutalisk instantly instead of ultralisk. I guess it completely depends, as I see going against terrans mutalisk not make sense, but going against protoss or zerg it seems way more viable to go mutalisk :|
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On August 16 2011 15:16 Fugue wrote:
Ultras are probably the best unit for this, but you're fast teching to hive and you could also get adrenal glands for cracklings. Quite a bit more larva intensive, but throwing down a 3rd queen/hatch might work. What resource is your real limiting factor in the build? If it's just gas then it sounds viable to me!
Gas is the limiting factor for sure. To comp, we all get gas, but are thrifty with it: Zerg uses it for tech, marines for a couple medivacs and Protoss gets stalkers, but then starts saving at 9 mins. At 9 mins we usually have 10-12 geysers being mined, so we can save it fast. If there is early pressure then Z usually gets cracklings to help hold it for a bit. If we can't expand then Zerg macro hatches for larva, but we can't mine quite as much gas, but it usually means we have a shared choke, so we can save our gas more.
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On August 16 2011 16:30 Aterons_toss wrote:
Iv one 2v2's after trolling my opponent by gas stealing him and putting gw's so he can't mine minerals ( and this is in diamond 2v2 ) so i say... meh its cool but honestly everything can win a team game imo...
Also, are ultras even cost efficient ? I know they are suply efficient but if i remember well they aren't even that good in a non maxed situation w/o queen suport.
Edit: Tested with a friend just for fun :D, the equivalent of 10 ultras worth of stalker archon ( 4 archons 20 stalkers ) actually kill 10 utrals w/o micro with 17 stalkers left, with micro from both all the stalker left and with micro from zerg 5 stalkers left. ( Yes the ultras have 1/1 and +2 armor up )
Edit: Some more test for fun and the equivalent of 1/1 + plate ultralisk res in 2/0 combat shield and stim rines also beats the ultras w.o any target firing, marauders also beat them by far even if you spend about 1/3 less res on them
So yeah... you might JUST might want to try another unit to dump money into... just sain.
Sometimes we lose the first push (if the enemy has everything ready like you mention), but by the time the first push dies off, we have the second wave of Ultras coming (12 more!), and teams can't keep up. Two interesting things here: 1) the SuperDave is really hard to scout the WTF build order, so most teams won't be able to be ready for it. You are right though, sometimes teams can build an anti-SuperDave. 2) Lucky for the SuperDave though, we can just change the strat, because it isn't an all-in and we all have macro'ed, and semi tech'ed.
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On August 16 2011 16:30 Aterons_toss wrote:
Iv one 2v2's after trolling my opponent by gas stealing him and putting gw's so he can't mine minerals ( and this is in diamond 2v2 ) so i say... meh its cool but honestly everything can win a team game imo...
Also, are ultras even cost efficient ? I know they are suply efficient but if i remember well they aren't even that good in a non maxed situation w/o queen suport.
Edit: Tested with a friend just for fun :D, the equivalent of 10 ultras worth of stalker archon ( 4 archons 20 stalkers ) actually kill 10 utrals w/o micro with 17 stalkers left, with micro from both all the stalker left and with micro from zerg 5 stalkers left. ( Yes the ultras have 1/1 and +2 armor up )
Edit: Some more test for fun and the equivalent of 1/1 + plate ultralisk res in 2/0 combat shield and stim rines also beats the ultras w.o any target firing, marauders also beat them by far even if you spend about 1/3 less res on them
So yeah... you might JUST might want to try another unit to dump money into... just sain.
Omg... Did you know that cost equivalent Vikings beat broodlords with 100% Vikings remaining?!
Point being you shouldn't be trying to compare a unit to it's counters for cost, no shit it will lose. Mm beats ultras, duh. Archon+stalker is a bullshit test because it's a unit composition designed to beat the single unit... A more fair test would be ultra hydra vs stalker archon, for example.
Edit: the late game units are more designed for supply efficiency over cost efficiency. Yes marines beat bc, ultra, carrier, anything for cost, but for supply they are hilariously inefficient.
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Awesome! did you make any optimizations?
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One thing you might consider is a baneling nest for the zerg. If you get caught off-guard before the Ultras hit the field, you can still do a resource transfer to turn the 20+ zerglings into a force capable of scaring off a bunch of T1 units. Also, speedbane+ultra is a very powerful low micro composition.
If you want to stick with pure Ultra, I'd work on optimizing the armor upgrade timings. +1 before lair, +2 ASAP, and chitinous plating before you start morphing ultras would give your zerg player +4 armor on the ultras by the time you got to a battlefield. With medivacs supporting, it'd be scary.
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This is amazing.
have you tried this in 2v2's or is this strictly a 3v3 thing?
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Heh, I'm loving it. I'll try to dave it up, but I don't know whether this will be effective at a bit higher level.
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On August 19 2011 11:14 hipsterdontlie wrote:
This is amazing.
have you tried this in 2v2's or is this strictly a 3v3 thing?
So far only 3's but due to recent success with this strategy we've been trying to adjust/tweak the strategy for 4's. More updates to come I guess, this is so hilarious I wish I could read the enemy chat when those Ultras pop up.
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At a glance of the thread, i thought this was another troll thread, however, i was proven wrong again. And this time, i found something extremely fun to try out in team games. Have you guys tried this with broodlord? I am sure broodlord works better in most situations if you have the ground AA/vikings to assist it. But keep up the good work, would love to see more replays from you guys.
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On August 30 2011 13:56 TolEranceNA wrote:
At a glance of the thread, i thought this was another troll thread, however, i was proven wrong again. And this time, i found something extremely fun to try out in team games. Have you guys tried this with broodlord? I am sure broodlord works better in most situations if you have the ground AA/vikings to assist it. But keep up the good work, would love to see more replays from you guys.
Broodlords is not as fast, and would add more build time... plus they move slow, so you won't be able to attack as fast. Basically, if you did broodlords instead then you would be in the enemy base 1-2 minutes after Ultras would be.
AND, it doesn't look as cool as a dozen Ultras at 11 minutes
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Just played another one this morning. Even though our silly Terran didn't start playing for 1 minute, we still beat our best time:
http://drop.sc/31263
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I'm not very experienced in team games, but is it true that a Protoss can make the gas geysers for their teammates so that the SCV build time / Drone is not lost ? If so, why not add this to the build.
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On August 16 2011 11:18 AtlasHugged wrote: Terran- Just like single player: Marine Medi(vac)
- Zerg needs all your gas, don't build any medivacs until the Ultras are out.
- When the Ultra Cavern goes down, stop spending money. The only exception to that is to
- stay alive or
- saturate 4 gas geysers
- When the Ultra Cavern is done, send ALL YOUR MONEY to the zerg player
So... don't build medivacs?
Don't build medivacs before ultras... And dont spend your money after ultras... Haha. Where do the medivacs come in?
Anyway, this sounds like fun. Ultras are super powerful, the only problem is gettin the resources for them, and with this strat you alleviated that problem. I feel like it would lose to any competent early timing attack though
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On September 03 2011 04:50 Talco wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 11:18 AtlasHugged wrote: Terran- Just like single player: Marine Medi(vac)
- Zerg needs all your gas, don't build any medivacs until the Ultras are out.
- When the Ultra Cavern goes down, stop spending money. The only exception to that is to
- stay alive or
- saturate 4 gas geysers
- When the Ultra Cavern is done, send ALL YOUR MONEY to the zerg player
So... don't build medivacs? Don't build medivacs before ultras... And dont spend your money after ultras... Haha. Where do the medivacs come in? Anyway, this sounds like fun. Ultras are super powerful, the only problem is gettin the resources for them, and with this strat you alleviated that problem. I feel like it would lose to any competent early timing attack though
Sooo, medivacs come in after the first 8-10 ultras start being constructed. they are optional, but if the fight is going to be long, they are very useful.
It loses to a double or triple 4 gate, but most everything else can be held off. it's either so fast that the marines and defensive 4 gate can hold it, or too late and the ultras are out.
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On August 16 2011 16:46 Aterons_toss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 16:41 Diderick wrote:On August 16 2011 16:30 Aterons_toss wrote:
Iv one 2v2's after trolling my opponent by gas stealing him and putting gw's so he can't mine minerals ( and this is in diamond 2v2 ) so i say... meh its cool but honestly everything can win a team game imo...
Also, are ultras even cost efficient ? I know they are suply efficient but if i remember well they aren't even that good in a non maxed situation w/o queen suport. you realize were talking about 12 minutes in the game? Then they are costeffective. No they are not read what i wrote above and also consider that they are the only unit + few other scraped units at 12 minutes in the game.
Did you factor in a 4gate / 6gate, a couple Medivacs for the Ultras, and some MM with Lings? Or did you do 10 Ultras vs whatever?
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try this:
1p
2z
-p cannon rushes and then goes pure probes + feed, possibly take another nexus. Chronoboost probes, build assims for the zerg allies and share control.
-both z make early enough pools to help the cannon rush, then one techs his way up to ultras while the other builds a roach warren, the $$$ from the protoss should pay for everything
It works great cuz a cannon + ling rush will always either kill an enemy or cause him to lose some economy - the problem is that usually the toss tries to tech up to warpgates and dies before he can manage it. Doing it this way, your team as a whole ends up spending practically nothing on buildings and is still able to pump out 7 roaches per inject and eventually a load of ultras.
The zerg who doesn't go roaches can choose between nonstop speedlings -> ultras or droning up a bit, I'd probably recommend lings to keep up pressure but making an additional hat and a few drones might be decent too.
Could replace one of the zergs with a terran, who doesn't need feed. Then the remaining zerg player gets all the feed from toss so he can afford pure roach -> ultra without wasting larva on drones.
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On August 17 2011 03:17 Penatronic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 16:30 Aterons_toss wrote:
Iv one 2v2's after trolling my opponent by gas stealing him and putting gw's so he can't mine minerals ( and this is in diamond 2v2 ) so i say... meh its cool but honestly everything can win a team game imo...
Also, are ultras even cost efficient ? I know they are suply efficient but if i remember well they aren't even that good in a non maxed situation w/o queen suport.
Edit: Tested with a friend just for fun :D, the equivalent of 10 ultras worth of stalker archon ( 4 archons 20 stalkers ) actually kill 10 utrals w/o micro with 17 stalkers left, with micro from both all the stalker left and with micro from zerg 5 stalkers left. ( Yes the ultras have 1/1 and +2 armor up )
Edit: Some more test for fun and the equivalent of 1/1 + plate ultralisk res in 2/0 combat shield and stim rines also beats the ultras w.o any target firing, marauders also beat them by far even if you spend about 1/3 less res on them
So yeah... you might JUST might want to try another unit to dump money into... just sain. Omg... Did you know that cost equivalent Vikings beat broodlords with 100% Vikings remaining?! Point being you shouldn't be trying to compare a unit to it's counters for cost, no shit it will lose. Mm beats ultras, duh. Archon+stalker is a bullshit test because it's a unit composition designed to beat the single unit... A more fair test would be ultra hydra vs stalker archon, for example. Edit: the late game units are more designed for supply efficiency over cost efficiency. Yes marines beat bc, ultra, carrier, anything for cost, but for supply they are hilariously inefficient.
Stalkers are countered by ultras.
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On September 03 2011 14:29 Keilah wrote:
try this:
1p
2z
-p cannon rushes and then goes pure probes + feed, possibly take another nexus. Chronoboost probes, build assims for the zerg allies and share control.
-both z make early enough pools to help the cannon rush, then one techs his way up to ultras while the other builds a roach warren, the $$$ from the protoss should pay for everything
It works great cuz a cannon + ling rush will always either kill an enemy or cause him to lose some economy - the problem is that usually the toss tries to tech up to warpgates and dies before he can manage it. Doing it this way, your team as a whole ends up spending practically nothing on buildings and is still able to pump out 7 roaches per inject and eventually a load of ultras.
The zerg who doesn't go roaches can choose between nonstop speedlings -> ultras or droning up a bit, I'd probably recommend lings to keep up pressure but making an additional hat and a few drones might be decent too.
Could replace one of the zergs with a terran, who doesn't need feed. Then the remaining zerg player gets all the feed from toss so he can afford pure roach -> ultra without wasting larva on drones.
you need marines for shooting air units on the attack. if no marines then you'll ultras will slowly die to any air.
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We Funday Monday'd it. We cut all Zelot and Speedling production to make it perfect for Team Monobattles. Wish us luck
http://drop.sc/39140
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I really miss the SuperDave!
User was warned for this post
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EPT
