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On October 26 2012 14:46 padfoota wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 06:26 iAmJeffReY wrote:On October 26 2012 03:36 Liszt wrote:
it's true. I've resorted to 111 and 2 rax all in everygame vs protoss because playing a macro game is basically suicide unless you outplay the shit out of the fucker and have godly micro to counteract his a move I love all you guys lol. Godly micro. You all are being so immature and silly, it doesn't require 'godly micro' just don't ball up and expect to win with a ball stutter stepping. Try doing a full arc concave and box splitting back in sections to draw zealots to charge into areas, and note where collsai are targetting etc. In short -- maybe you just don't have what it takes, and need to relearn how to micro properly. I know right? The terran whines are really funny to read as a terran yourself lol Hey guys, heres something to blow your mind with - TvP is the SIMPLEST MATCHUP out of the three. Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 08:35 Whatson wrote:
To me, TvZ is easier than TvP. I have a better grasp of the flow of a TvZ, partly because it was already my best matchup pre-patch, but mostly because I studied a lot of TvZ right after the patch. As long as you maintain a stable economy, maintain your macro, and know when to be aggressive, you have a good chance of winning. Flow in TvP? What flow? Either play greedy->defend his attack/sit back and macro->big engagement->correct control = win, incorrect control = lose, mediocre control = redo. Or, Aggressive opener -> did significant damage ->all in him/sit back and macro into timing attack and win or ->no significant damage -> really behind -> play greedy/defensive and pray hes dumb, or -> come out even, resort to previous flow. Wait....that is a flow........... Ok theres no flow in TvZ because its just Open greedy with harrass option -> harrass+macro -> harrass+macro -> harrass+macro -> harrass+macro -> harrass+macro -> harrass+macro -> either hes dead (or almost dead and there should be a window for you to go kill him) or you failed macro while harrassing and you are dead -> one player is slightly behind and has to do something brilliant to catch up For some reason my TvT is almost exactly like my TvZ.... God damn hellion banshee openers. yeah...
Lol i tried to read this and my head started to hurt. You almost sound schizophrenic. You jump from asking "what flow in TvP" to defining a flow in TvP, to commentating "Wait....that is a flow......"
And then posting some gibberish about TvZ theory being all harass and macro and then jumping to TvT for whatever reason, and then "god damn hellion banshee openers" ending with a "yeah..."
What exactly are you trying to say again?
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On October 26 2012 16:14 aviator116 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 14:46 padfoota wrote:On October 26 2012 06:26 iAmJeffReY wrote:On October 26 2012 03:36 Liszt wrote:
it's true. I've resorted to 111 and 2 rax all in everygame vs protoss because playing a macro game is basically suicide unless you outplay the shit out of the fucker and have godly micro to counteract his a move I love all you guys lol. Godly micro. You all are being so immature and silly, it doesn't require 'godly micro' just don't ball up and expect to win with a ball stutter stepping. Try doing a full arc concave and box splitting back in sections to draw zealots to charge into areas, and note where collsai are targetting etc. In short -- maybe you just don't have what it takes, and need to relearn how to micro properly. I know right? The terran whines are really funny to read as a terran yourself lol Hey guys, heres something to blow your mind with - TvP is the SIMPLEST MATCHUP out of the three. On October 26 2012 08:35 Whatson wrote:
To me, TvZ is easier than TvP. I have a better grasp of the flow of a TvZ, partly because it was already my best matchup pre-patch, but mostly because I studied a lot of TvZ right after the patch. As long as you maintain a stable economy, maintain your macro, and know when to be aggressive, you have a good chance of winning. Flow in TvP? What flow? Either play greedy->defend his attack/sit back and macro->big engagement->correct control = win, incorrect control = lose, mediocre control = redo. Or, Aggressive opener -> did significant damage ->all in him/sit back and macro into timing attack and win or ->no significant damage -> really behind -> play greedy/defensive and pray hes dumb, or -> come out even, resort to previous flow. Wait....that is a flow........... Ok theres no flow in TvZ because its just Open greedy with harrass option -> harrass+macro -> harrass+macro -> harrass+macro -> harrass+macro -> harrass+macro -> harrass+macro -> either hes dead (or almost dead and there should be a window for you to go kill him) or you failed macro while harrassing and you are dead -> one player is slightly behind and has to do something brilliant to catch up For some reason my TvT is almost exactly like my TvZ.... God damn hellion banshee openers. yeah... Lol i tried to read this and my head started to hurt. You almost sound schizophrenic. You jump from asking "what flow in TvP" to defining a flow in TvP, to commentating "Wait....that is a flow......" And then posting some gibberish about TvZ theory being all harass and macro and then jumping to TvT for whatever reason, and then "god damn hellion banshee openers" ending with a "yeah..." What exactly are you trying to say again?
Im drunk go away 
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hello! i have a quiestion. i just saw empire.kas did bio vs P, but he had a few tanks in the army. is that waste of food or is it good? for example target colosus if sieged?
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they are very good early game for 111allin,
and for 111 expand where they can help to defend any sort of funky sentry timing pushes toss like to do before 9-10 min mark.
as time goes on their efficacy becomes weaker with a stronger toss deathball so terrans would stop building them after like 3-4 tanks built and go straight back into pure mmmvg.
When you do push toss with medivacs at 10-11 min you might as well bring along those tanks since you already have them.
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but then, my push has less maraduers and marines. what about the second push, you have 3-4 tanks whit your army?
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In TvZ, I've been trying to mix in ghosts with my mostly bio heavy army (few tanks for defense) as I seem to lose mostly to really really heavy infestor compositions
But I'm ALWAYS so mineral starved and ghosts costs so much minerals. Are ghosts even viable with bio off of 3-4 bases?
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For a 1 rax FE, when is the best time to transfer workers from your main to the natural? It seems like sending a chunk of SCVs as soon as the expo finishes can throw off the timings of a tight build order.
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On October 27 2012 01:34 MysteryHours wrote:
For a 1 rax FE, when is the best time to transfer workers from your main to the natural? It seems like sending a chunk of SCVs as soon as the expo finishes can throw off the timings of a tight build order.
Personally (and bear in mind I'm gold league) I transfer in TvP because I meet early GW pressure fairly often, but just re-rally CCs in TvT and TvZ, in which I rarely need to pull for repairs before I have had time to saturate.
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On October 26 2012 22:30 mizU wrote:
In TvZ, I've been trying to mix in ghosts with my mostly bio heavy army (few tanks for defense) as I seem to lose mostly to really really heavy infestor compositions
But I'm ALWAYS so mineral starved and ghosts costs so much minerals. Are ghosts even viable with bio off of 3-4 bases?
Yes, I mix them in mainly for nuke harasses when the game gets to that point, because by then they have 3-4 spines per base, and they buy enough time that marine drops are now worthless. Abuse the fact you have cloak, and two shot infestors. Set up for them to come into you as normal like with a marine tank army, pre spread and ready, and just cloak ahead and snipe as much as you can. Kill the infestors, and life is a lot easier.
You already have the tech lab raxes, so it's not a huge transition.
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infestors are still the best casters since they are more multi-purpose than other casters. miss the days when ghost scan snipe almost everything
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On October 27 2012 09:03 JonIrenicus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 06:36 iAmJeffReY wrote:On October 26 2012 22:30 mizU wrote:
In TvZ, I've been trying to mix in ghosts with my mostly bio heavy army (few tanks for defense) as I seem to lose mostly to really really heavy infestor compositions
But I'm ALWAYS so mineral starved and ghosts costs so much minerals. Are ghosts even viable with bio off of 3-4 bases? Yes, I mix them in mainly for nuke harasses when the game gets to that point, because by then they have 3-4 spines per base, and they buy enough time that marine drops are now worthless. Abuse the fact you have cloak, and two shot infestors. Set up for them to come into you as normal like with a marine tank army, pre spread and ready, and just cloak ahead and snipe as much as you can. Kill the infestors, and life is a lot easier. You already have the tech lab raxes, so it's not a huge transition. so ghosts are still useful nowadays? 
For nuke harass and some sniping situations, yes. EMP on infestors is pointless.
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For TvT, how do I know what build I should go in the beginning and counter their builds? It's getting kinda boring playing TvT and TvZ with Marine-Tank, and playing TvP with just MMM. Sometimes when the opponent goes Mech, I pretty much instantly lose with Marine-Tank. I've tried playing Bio a few times against Mech, but it seems near impossible to win against it due to the massive range and splash of the tanks.
Also in TvZ, is it even possible to defeat a Zerg who has both Ultras and Broodlords, and Corruptors in their army composition? I got completely wrecked... This was on Antiga Shipyard too and instead of taking the 3rd base, he took 2 hidden bases, letting him stay up a base on me. I'll try to find the replay but the jist of it is that he pushed with his broodlords and corruptors, forcing me to unseige. Then he just ran in with his Ultras and chomp and Broodling everything away.
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TvT its possbile to fight mech with pure bio.
However you must pick your engagements properly and flank their army like zerg (try scanning to scout their army movement/sieging and then stimming only when they unsiege).
Do plenty of drop harass with 3-5 medivacs (which will usually force them to bring back their entire army).
When he is building up his mech army, get more expos (if he is on 3 bases, have 4-5 bases). You need that econ to have any chance against the inevitable death mech push.
Make sure you have mostly marauders in your army, marines will just melt to tanks and hellions.
in tvz if you let zerg get such a powerful composition with plenty of bases without doing any constant harass or early game pushes whatsoever, you might as well just gg without fighting. always scout everywhere to make certain the amt of bases he has, and when you scouted the hive, make certain which tech he is going for and preempt accordingly.
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On October 27 2012 13:37 geokilla wrote:
For TvT, how do I know what build I should go in the beginning and counter their builds? It's getting kinda boring playing TvT and TvZ with Marine-Tank, and playing TvP with just MMM. Sometimes when the opponent goes Mech, I pretty much instantly lose with Marine-Tank. I've tried playing Bio a few times against Mech, but it seems near impossible to win against it due to the massive range and splash of the tanks.
Also in TvZ, is it even possible to defeat a Zerg who has both Ultras and Broodlords, and Corruptors in their army composition? I got completely wrecked... This was on Antiga Shipyard too and instead of taking the 3rd base, he took 2 hidden bases, letting him stay up a base on me. I'll try to find the replay but the jist of it is that he pushed with his broodlords and corruptors, forcing me to unseige. Then he just ran in with his Ultras and chomp and Broodling everything away.
TvT: You have got a big advantage with marine-tank vs. mech in the early game. Since your army is much stronger in the earlygame, you can set up powerful contains and you can expand more aggressively while he has to wait for the correct number of tanks and leapfrog towards his expandtion. Against mech you have to focus more on tanks instead of marines. Get your 2nd factory sooner and have your marines in the back. If he pushes into you his hellions will all die to your tanks, while your marines will still be alive and able to wreck his tanks if unsieged.
TvZ: Map control is everything in TvZ. Drops aren´t only used for drop haras, but also for scouting the map. If you start a dropship or two every 5 minutes you will always know on how many bases he is. You also have to abuse your push timings to clear the creep and force him to build units early, which reduces the strength of his first t3 ball. You also have to scan for his tech choice and make the correct counter either marrauder or vikings in time, so that you can kill his first t3 army fast. If you don´t trade constantly with a zerg and allow him to take bases easily, then you don´t have a chance of winning. You get the most effective trades when you are fighting off creep, that´s why it is so important to abuse your push timings in the early game to clear the creep. You basically have to of them if you are going for marine-tank. The first one is when you have 1-1 and tanks with stim. With this push you can´t kill a base, but you can clear the creep and force bad trades for him if he decides to push into while your tanks are sieged off creep. Your 2nd timing is your 2-2 with +1 mech and combat shield around 14 minutes. With this timing you can almost always kill the 4th if you have stopped the creep successful. After that you can use small troops of units favorable marrauders to kill his additional bases. If you managed to control your side of the map sucessful, which means that the zerg doesn´t have any vision in your half of the map, then the lategame get´s more easy.
To understand the importance of map control, just watch a replay where you got completely crushed and look how much he is seeing and how early he can see your attacks.
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For TvT, how do I know what build I should go in the beginning and counter their builds? It's getting kinda boring playing TvT and TvZ with Marine-Tank, and playing TvP with just MMM. Sometimes when the opponent goes Mech, I pretty much instantly lose with Marine-Tank. I've tried playing Bio a few times against Mech, but it seems near impossible to win against it due to the massive range and splash of the tanks.
Bio gives you the best chance against mech unless you mech as well. Marine tank does not stand a chance, more often than not, against mech. Hellions block you too well, and they have more tanks than your tanks + they have air control.
For bio to work against mech, you have to abuse mobility, drop everywhere, and keep pressuring them and box split your army so you aren't clumped. I'll find a replay of bio vs mech for you
http://drop.sc/265015 vs a 1000pt terran going mech on antiga.
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On October 27 2012 13:37 geokilla wrote:
For TvT, how do I know what build I should go in the beginning and counter their builds? It's getting kinda boring playing TvT and TvZ with Marine-Tank, and playing TvP with just MMM. Sometimes when the opponent goes Mech, I pretty much instantly lose with Marine-Tank. I've tried playing Bio a few times against Mech, but it seems near impossible to win against it due to the massive range and splash of the tanks.
Also in TvZ, is it even possible to defeat a Zerg who has both Ultras and Broodlords, and Corruptors in their army composition? I got completely wrecked... This was on Antiga Shipyard too and instead of taking the 3rd base, he took 2 hidden bases, letting him stay up a base on me. I'll try to find the replay but the jist of it is that he pushed with his broodlords and corruptors, forcing me to unseige. Then he just ran in with his Ultras and chomp and Broodling everything away.
In TvT Bio usually loses to marine tank, but can beat mech with decent engagements,you need to have good micro and good flanking as well as constant map control.
Marine tank can beat mech if you contain them before they get their third up, which usually means completely denying an aggressive opener or using an aggressive build to contain them. If they get 3 bases up though, you shouldn't win vs mech.
TvZ it sounds like you didn't push or harass at all. Zerg shouldn't be able to get ultras + BL corruptors, because that means they had really low supply in actual T1 units. BLs and ultras take a while to get out, so it seems like you kind of just turtled then lost.
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How do you guys hold a reaper+hellion+medivac attack with a 1rax CC and reactor Hellion? is it even possible?
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EPT
