EPTThe Terran Help Me Thread - Page 337
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. Also, please put some effort into your questions. | ||
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-niL
Canada1131 Posts
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Squisher16
United States9 Posts
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
On August 19 2012 05:34 -niL wrote: Hello, I took a break from starcraft for about bit over a month and I heard the meta for TvZ is hellion banshee. What is the build order (it can be very simple/general)? Like is it done on one base, done after 1rax FE, what is the goal of it, when do I hit with what amounts, what is the follow up, etc? It's after 1 rax fe, hellion banshee is to enable you to harass/scout without risk, it means you can tell exactly what he is doing and punish any excessively greedy play. You then just transition into whatever you like that you did a month ago, bio, marine/tank, mech, whatever. | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
On August 19 2012 06:29 Squisher16 wrote: hey terrans, i wanted to know how to perfectly engage a maxed toss army and how many ghosts i should have. i know the vikings and ghosts in front, but whenever i engage it seems like before i snipe or emp most of the templar my ghosts die to collosi fire sice they are in front. I can also never seem to snipe all of the tosses observers so my ghosts always die first. thnx ♥! I play bio just to let u guys know i also struggle with unit control in these situations (who doesn't!), but are you scanning the protoss army, when you're maxed you don't really need the extra minerals then and there so it's better to focus on scans, you can scan the protoss army to tell if his colossi are at the front, if they are with enough vikings you may be able to swoop in and snipe one. but if they're protected at the back, that lets you run in and snipe/emp whatever you want. i feel like the amount of ghosts is more a preference, for me the phrase too many ghosts tvp doesn't exist! | ||
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Kanaric
United States1 Post
This may have been covered, and I'm sure I'm missing something when I search, but I'm having touble with TvP and TvZ in the High-Gold & Low-Plat brackets. For this post, I'll attempt to tackle the TvP problem, as I seem to meet more toss on ladder than anything. I have two replays that can paint the picture of my problems perfectly. You can DL them here: Game 1: http://pvpchamps.com/sc2/TvPcontainfail.SC2Replay and Game 2: http://pvpchamps.com/sc2/TvP2loss.SC2Replay . The links are from my FTP, because I didn't feel like setting up an account elsewhere. If you're not comfortable with DLing from me, let me know, and I'll throw them up somewhere else. Self Analysis: Game 1: I start off with MVP's 3 rax TvP build, which is admittedly poorly executed by me. I plan to bring some early aggression before 8 minutes, and I usually feel like I'm doing everything correctly up until I get to my opponents ramp. At this point, I'm usually met with sentries FFing me to death, so this game, I decide to wait it out, hold off his expansion, and try to contain him until I can gain a significant econ advantage. This player is smart, and he sends warp prisims to distract me. I know that I should have left a few rines, or maybe a viking home to deflect this, and I will make sure to do that in the future. I feel like my biggest problem is my unit control, and lack of ghosts for this game. Sentries are really tough for me to deal with, as my micro is bad, and I usually get myself into a terrible position and die. I know that I need to use ghosts, but again, my unit control is bad so effectively using ghosts is a challenge. I dropped the ball and let my opponent turn the tables. Besides better unit control, using ghosts, and scouting for that warp prism, what should I be doing? Also, any tips for unit control would be much appreciated and welcome. Game2: I really screwed up the 3 rax build in this game, but I feel like that isn't the biggest problem. He went for some 4 gate all in rush, which I should have scouted better and prepared for. Anything else? Thanks in advance. Edit: I want to develop an early game aggressive playstyle, but I also want to know how to deal with late game situations, especially in max army scenarios. Any tips on anything related to my gameplay would be greatly appreciated. Edit: apparently the URL code isn't working for me... Links to games: Game1: http://pvpchamps.com/sc2/TvPcontainfail.SC2Replay Game2: http://pvpchamps.com/sc2/TvP2loss.SC2Replay | ||
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kuroshiroi
3149 Posts
In BW TvZ, Terran was normally on two base econ, constantly attacking and pressuring so I'm wondering why SC2 Terrans seem to love their thirds and maxed out armies. I usually just get macroed to death if I even try... | ||
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stichtom
Italy695 Posts
Hi, i am a mid master played from italy and i don't know why i lost this game. It is a TvP- I think i played well overall, but his storms were just too much for me. Do u have any tips? Thanks and sorry for my english | ||
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Wardi
England898 Posts
On August 19 2012 02:25 SC2John wrote: I might also add that a good technique is to place your SCVs IN FRONT of the bunker if you spot the pressure early enough. This negates FF on the back, and FF on the front of your bunker just helps you against zealots. You want to place them in front on hold position with auto-repair on. Yeah I think I am already doing a lot of these tips etc, it really just is being a little bit faster on that reaction time. | ||
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kuroshiroi
3149 Posts
On August 19 2012 08:10 Kanaric wrote: + Show Spoiler + Hey all, This may have been covered, and I'm sure I'm missing something when I search, but I'm having touble with TvP and TvZ in the High-Gold & Low-Plat brackets. For this post, I'll attempt to tackle the TvP problem, as I seem to meet more toss on ladder than anything. I have two replays that can paint the picture of my problems perfectly. You can DL them here: Game 1: http://pvpchamps.com/sc2/TvPcontainfail.SC2Replay and Game 2: http://pvpchamps.com/sc2/TvP2loss.SC2Replay . The links are from my FTP, because I didn't feel like setting up an account elsewhere. If you're not comfortable with DLing from me, let me know, and I'll throw them up somewhere else. Self Analysis: Game 1: I start off with MVP's 3 rax TvP build, which is admittedly poorly executed by me. I plan to bring some early aggression before 8 minutes, and I usually feel like I'm doing everything correctly up until I get to my opponents ramp. At this point, I'm usually met with sentries FFing me to death, so this game, I decide to wait it out, hold off his expansion, and try to contain him until I can gain a significant econ advantage. This player is smart, and he sends warp prisims to distract me. I know that I should have left a few rines, or maybe a viking home to deflect this, and I will make sure to do that in the future. I feel like my biggest problem is my unit control, and lack of ghosts for this game. Sentries are really tough for me to deal with, as my micro is bad, and I usually get myself into a terrible position and die. I know that I need to use ghosts, but again, my unit control is bad so effectively using ghosts is a challenge. I dropped the ball and let my opponent turn the tables. Besides better unit control, using ghosts, and scouting for that warp prism, what should I be doing? Also, any tips for unit control would be much appreciated and welcome. Game2: I really screwed up the 3 rax build in this game, but I feel like that isn't the biggest problem. He went for some 4 gate all in rush, which I should have scouted better and prepared for. Anything else? Thanks in advance. Edit: I want to develop an early game aggressive playstyle, but I also want to know how to deal with late game situations, especially in max army scenarios. Any tips on anything related to my gameplay would be greatly appreciated. Edit: apparently the URL code isn't working for me... Links to games: Game1: http://pvpchamps.com/sc2/TvPcontainfail.SC2Replay Game2: http://pvpchamps.com/sc2/TvP2loss.SC2Replay That build might be too outdated for even gold so maybe you should look into alternatives like 2 rax, 1 rax FE or 1/1/1 but whatever. Game 1: The main thing you need to do is improve your macro. For instance, you didn't hotkey any of your raxes/starports, you finished 2/2 at 25 minutes or something in the first game (which I guess is fine since your P opponent finished 1/1 around the same time) and you managed to get 200 energy on both orbitals at the same time. Oh, and you forgot combat shields, ouch. Make more stuff and get better upgrades and you would have had that game after 15 minutes. Game 2: SCVs need to repair bunkers, that's about it. Bunkers are imba  Better micro will come with more practice. Or put it another way, master your macro, then micro will follow. But seriously, that build looks awful, try to find something else that suits your playstyle. | ||
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DKR
United Kingdom622 Posts
The premise behind this build is essentially to build a large number of hellions to give map control for a safe double expo. In my eyes any ling production is shut down, creep is denied and Zerg will devote resources to defensive structures. If roaches are produced aggressively (cheese or simply as part of a timing) then Terran has the tech to produce seige mode tanks rapidly (working under the premise blue flame is taken). Mutas wont pop until 11minutes, by which point it is perfectly feasible that 3bases.will be up and a transition to third or simply marine tank will be well under way. 2base infestors will simply mean Terran has a huge economic lead... I'm struggling to find an issue, does anyone fancy theory crafting this with me? | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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DKR
United Kingdom622 Posts
On August 19 2012 09:35 monkybone wrote: Mutas might very well pop before 11 minutes. 2 base muta rushes can be expected even before 9 minutes. Yes but who's afraid of that? If its scouted then the large hellion numbers can get in and do the damage while the Zerg has few units to stop them; getting turrets up behind this with Thor/marine would leave T with a huge advantage | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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DKR
United Kingdom622 Posts
On August 19 2012 09:42 monkybone wrote: That's a lot of words, turrets, thors, marines. But the matter of fact is that you went for a double factory opening planning to produce hellions and siege tanks. At what point does the armory go down? The engi bay? How many marines are you going to produce, and how? What scouting pattern ensures you to have turrets up in order to defend early mutas? Zerg will obviously block hellion harass going for such early mutas. I wasn't referring to a specific build order, more the generalized theme of using a swell of hellions to defend a double expo. With regards to the Thor marine turret tank situation, I was suggesting the 2fact hellion as a basis for however the individual chooses to play I.e tanks early if you see roaches else delay their production, thors if you're going mech and marines if you plan to go Bio. As I said, rather than suggesting a Bo, I was questioning whether there was a place for double fact plays in the current metagame. | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
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NewDawn
Canada120 Posts
What should I do? | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On August 19 2012 08:19 kuroshiroi wrote: What's my motivation to get a three base economy in TvZ? Are higher level zergs somehow better at protecting their third than my plat opponents? In BW TvZ, Terran was normally on two base econ, constantly attacking and pressuring so I'm wondering why SC2 Terrans seem to love their thirds and maxed out armies. I usually just get macroed to death if I even try... The 3-base economy in SC2 for terrans represents the ability to freely produce at a huge rate without having to build any more workers. In fact, for all races, this is kind of the case; that being said, SC2 strategy is completely based around 3rd bases now. Probably the most important aspect of this 3-base economy is the 5th and 6th gases, which allow a terran player to continually build medivacs/vikings + tanks/thors from 2-3 factories while still continuing to get upgrades, dumping all the remaining gas and minerals into marine/marauder. That being said, around 14:00 is when terran is starting to complete all of it's core upgrades and approach that maxout moment on 3 bases, but before zerg can reach that BL tech, which is the only really good thing to deal with maxed out marine/tank pushes. Most modern terran plays revolve around constant 3-base aggression, much like for a while ZvP was based around the 11:00 roach maxout play. It's a timing window based on terran getting a lot of stuff really fast while zerg has to survive until tier 3. Obviously, the faster you reach this moment in the game, the more time you're potentially giving yourself to do damage while the zerg player is still stuck on lair tech. Therefore, we're seeing faster and faster CC's, as it allows terrans to better keep up with the zerg economy as well as reach this maxout moment a little faster and a little more comfortably. On August 19 2012 11:12 ThePianoDentist wrote: can anybody explain why in TvZ ghosts are so rarely seen anymore, yeah I know about the snipe nerf, but are they really no longer viable at top level, its just i see so many tvz's where the terran uses vikings to deal with broodlords, then the opponent just tech switches into ultras and wins, or a fungal just takes down almost every viking pretty much winning the game Day9 did a recent daily and said something along the lines of "Although ghosts are still good even with the snipe nerf, SC2 is increasingly becoming less and less a game about straight up engagements and more about positioning and economy." That being said, it's much easier to dump money into making a mobile force of MMM/T that can be split up and attack multiple points than to dump into an earlier ghost transition and try to only engage the zerg head-on. In addition, the maps are becoming increasingly varied with more counterattack paths, making straight-up engagements more difficult to force. I think ghosts still have a place in the lategame, particularly when dealing with a BL/infestor super army as well as doing some nuke harass, but they're place in the midgame has kind of been phased out in favour of more immediately useful units. Personally, I don't really use ghosts. I prefer a lategame switch to thor/hellion/viking and try to engage well. In addition, I try to throw in a handful of battlecruisers for extra DPS and skew the zerg army ever so slightly to favour more corruptors. The switch to thors and BC in the lategame work well against both ultras and BLords, so they are solid units, albeit softer counters than snipe originally was. | ||
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netherDrake
Singapore1831 Posts
Cloud Kingdom, I open gas first cloak banshee (he scouts me gas first) and he attempts to counter it by going viking and a raven into expand. I lose my first banshee but not after getting 6/7 worker kills, putting me slightly ahead early on. Both of us then build up our armies. I do a push out and I see that I can't break him, and decide to take my third. I take my third earlier than his and continue macroing before I push out to his 4th. My goal here was to contain/pressure him and then take two expansions. After a few trades, I do manage to get both expansions with around 10-12 scvs on each. There are a few trades here and there and I believe I was slightly ahead till he sieged up one of my expansions. However, I'm not able to defend both expansions at the same time and that made it very hard for me to take back control of the game. Eventually, he takes his bases and his income starts shooting ahead of me. I do a desperation attack and try to enter his main but he is too well defended and I tap out. I do realise I did not get +3 armor this game which was a big mistake, and I'd like for comments on my overall TvT play and what I should have done or done better. Here's the download link: http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=1898 I'm around the mid-high master level on korea. Thanks for any help! | ||
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Wardi
England898 Posts
On August 19 2012 11:32 NewDawn wrote: In TvT, how do I stop a 1/1/1 late Expo when I do 1Rax FE with a bio-centric mid-game transition. As soon as I scanned at 6:20~ I saw the 1/1/1 and immediately got a Tech on my Factory and tried to get tanks, and skipped medivacs for vikings. I feel that the 1/1/1 completely wrecks me when I 1Rax FE. What should I do? A replay might help to identify exactly what unit composition your opponent went for and how early his push was. There are multiple types including very early 6.30 siege pushes as well as later pushes after getting cloak banshees. The first thing I can say is be prepared. The less damage you take the more economy you have to hold this off - so get them turrets up to defend the cloak banshees and you will be in a great position. Remember to save scans for when you engage his army, so you don't get destroyed by the two banshees that are cloaked and you cannot kill. Be aware of your macro as well - do not let it slip while dealing with his harassment otherwise you are going to be in a lot of trouble. Always make sure to get Combat Shields first - this extra health on your marines allows for a much better defence of builds such as this as they can tank extra shots from tanks, banshees and make your own marines so much better than his own. Be patient and buy yourself time - if possible be active on the map with your marines and attempt to force him to siege before he gets to your base. When he does siege up assess how bad the situation is - do you really need to engage him right now? The longer you wait the better it gets for you as more upgrades and units start to become available from your economy. When you think you have enough engage from as many sides as possible - the high ground of your main, drop units round the back and from your natural (usually once stim has finished). This works well for the later pushes involving Banshees. Don't be afraid to pull workers as well - remember you have the economy advantage here and the extra orbital to reproduce SCVs and that extra buffering could help make the difference. For earlier pushes with very early tanks and fewer marines I feel it is better to pull SCVs and engage ASAP. Because he has committed to tanks so early (skipped banshees) it means he is at his weakest when he only has 1-2 tanks and if you wait for stim there are just going to be way too many tanks to deal with. These are a few tips, again if you can post the replay I can give you a bit better specific advice for the type of 1/1/1 you faced. | ||
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Sianos
580 Posts
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