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On March 31 2012 01:23 Blackknight232 wrote:so recently tvt became my biggest fear due to the fact i don't know any good builds that would really get me back into the swing of it. I like mech(ish) plays and by mech(ish) i mean that i do fact and starport units. But most of the time my opp goes bio and really messes me up. any tips or pointers to help calm my nerves with this match up? and here's a replay of a recent game i did http://drop.sc/148191I'm Ryu by the way
Well to be frank your build made absolutely no sense and if your opponent was playing bio well at all he could easily have won around 9-12 minute mark. You should really go find and watch pros playing mech in TvT to observe the typical openings (i.e. banshee, 111 marine hellion variation, maybe reactor hellion, FE into double gas) and pay very close attention to the infrastructure they build, and typical timings. By that I mean, when are they building factories, and how many? Same for engineering bay, armory; starport timings will often vary.
Briefly skipping through your replay there are multiple problems with your macro and absence of direction in your build. General lack of SCV production is the most obvious. Another thing I want to note is your armorys are in the worst position possible in your main, it would be ridiculously easy to drop and kill those.
Please go watch streams, or a regular tournament thing like IPL, and watch how mech is played by players with good mechanics before winging it
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I'm just starting out with SC2, played SC very casually when it first came out, but never got very involved in multiplayer. Trying to change that with this game... did my placement matches, got placed in Bronze (as I expected), and am 1-1 since then. However, obviously the biggest area of improvement that I need (and really the only area that I feel I should be focusing on) is mechanics.
In order to improve my mechanics, I am looking for a very simple Terran build that can be used adequately against any opponent. This isn't designed to make me "unbeatable", but just something so I can focus on improving my mechanics, and perfecting this build so I can improve as a player. Once I've done this, then I'll look more into adjusting my strategy and tactics... But I feel getting too wrapped in the tactics and various complex builds is a waste of time for me if I have sub-par mechanics where I simply get outproduced by a good opponent (regardless of strategy).
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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On April 01 2012 01:46 Lennac wrote:
I'm just starting out with SC2, played SC very casually when it first came out, but never got very involved in multiplayer. Trying to change that with this game... did my placement matches, got placed in Bronze (as I expected), and am 1-1 since then. However, obviously the biggest area of improvement that I need (and really the only area that I feel I should be focusing on) is mechanics.
In order to improve my mechanics, I am looking for a very simple Terran build that can be used adequately against any opponent. This isn't designed to make me "unbeatable", but just something so I can focus on improving my mechanics, and perfecting this build so I can improve as a player. Once I've done this, then I'll look more into adjusting my strategy and tactics... But I feel getting too wrapped in the tactics and various complex builds is a waste of time for me if I have sub-par mechanics where I simply get outproduced by a good opponent (regardless of strategy).
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Try this. You can alter it a little bit, but try not to. This really helped me and it should probably help you too/
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On April 01 2012 02:26 PinheadXXXXXX wrote:Try this. You can alter it a little bit, but try not to. This really helped me and it should probably help you too/
Thanks, appreciate it.
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Ok, guys I need your help with TvT. It's by far my worst matchup at the moment (75% TvZ, 45% TvP, 15% TvT, no joke), I used to go mech but I really don't think it's good on most maps. I need a macro-oriented safe build, most people go cloak banshee on the ladder (that's at least the impression I got from my games) so is there any build I could use, preferably Marine/Tanks, but I'd also go Mech if you guys have an opening that doesn't get me stuck in my base (I used to 2 gas FE, off 1 rax into fast rax+starport). Maybe a hellion build into mech? Or mass marine opening that allows me to hold off early tank rushes.
I'm low master btw.
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Sweden9072 Posts
On April 01 2012 02:39 ChaosTerran wrote:
Ok, guys I need your help with TvT. It's by far my worst matchup at the moment (75% TvZ, 45% TvP, 15% TvT, no joke), I used to go mech but I really don't think it's good on most maps. I need a macro-oriented safe build, most people go cloak banshee on the ladder (that's at least the impression I got from my games) so is there any build I could use, preferably Marine/Tanks, but I'd also go Mech if you guys have an opening that doesn't get me stuck in my base (I used to 2 gas FE, off 1 rax into fast rax+starport). Maybe a hellion build into mech? Or mass marine opening that allows me to hold off early tank rushes.
I'm low master btw.
1 rax CC into 3 rax and double gas and combat shields
And that one build MKP does on his stream, like 12 rax, 13 gas, 19 fact, CC, tech lab on rax, swap factory onto tech lab when the fact is done, build tank and then reactor on rax and add 2 more rax and gas so you can afford seige, +1 and tech lab for rax.
Very solid openings against everything and transitions to marine/tank good.
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On April 01 2012 02:39 ChaosTerran wrote:
Ok, guys I need your help with TvT. It's by far my worst matchup at the moment (75% TvZ, 45% TvP, 15% TvT, no joke), I used to go mech but I really don't think it's good on most maps. I need a macro-oriented safe build, most people go cloak banshee on the ladder (that's at least the impression I got from my games) so is there any build I could use, preferably Marine/Tanks, but I'd also go Mech if you guys have an opening that doesn't get me stuck in my base (I used to 2 gas FE, off 1 rax into fast rax+starport). Maybe a hellion build into mech? Or mass marine opening that allows me to hold off early tank rushes.
I'm low master btw.
I've been doing a build i saw avilo do on his stream to great success
It'S main focus is on countering the oponnents build and getting an advantadge into the midgame or at least be even :
Start out with standard 12 rax and 13 refinery
then get a techlab after your first marine. (if he 2 raxes get a bunker and abandon ship here)
Now depending on your scout: build two marauders and concussive shells if you saw a techlab. Get a reaper if you saw another marine in production.
If you saw neither get the a single maruder for safety.
This way you'll catch the reaper at the cliff and kill it easily or you get scouting intel trough your own reaper.
Now get your second cc in base when mins allow and directly after get a factory on the techlab take your second refinery and build a reactor on the barracks(produce marines constantly once completed).
Once the factory completes build your starport and get a siegetank.
Depending on your scouting (expo or not and scanning) get siegemode first if he goes for some kind of bio allin or fe.
Get two vikings and switch the starport on the techlab and get 1-2 ravens if you suspect banshees. safe all scans once your 2nd orbital completes, until you have the raven out.
You have to watch out for marine hellion drops, if you suspect one, don't transfer your scvs into your nat until you fended him off.
If you hold off banshees or a one base play here, you're obviously in great shape
Take your gases in the natural immediatly and switch the starport on the reactor from your rax. Research siegemode if you haven't already. Build another reactor on the rax and build two more factories.
Fit in blueflame and your armory whenever you like.
Your goal is 3 factories (1 reactor ,2 techlabs) and a reactored starport.
now just play standard mech and get a 3rd, max out on mech and go for the kill.
You have to play very carefully though and prepare with sensor towers and missile turrets for drops. Stop any elevator and siege infront of your base shenanigans and you're good to go.
Your army should consist of mostly tanks and hellions, maybe some thors if he pulls off some weird banshee play to catch you offguard. Get ~6 vikings against bio to stop drops, against mech get as many as needed(read: more then your opponent). The 1 or 2 ravens from the beginning can help greatly against bio play (marauder shots blocked by pdd).
Only thing to watch out for in lategame is getting out of position or gettiong caught offguard by some kind of mass air play. In that case throw down 3 more starports and cover every square centimeter of the map in missile turrets.
You'll probably get smashed the first few times, but once you get the timings right, you'll stomp face
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On April 01 2012 02:39 ChaosTerran wrote:
Ok, guys I need your help with TvT. It's by far my worst matchup at the moment (75% TvZ, 45% TvP, 15% TvT, no joke), I used to go mech but I really don't think it's good on most maps. I need a macro-oriented safe build, most people go cloak banshee on the ladder (that's at least the impression I got from my games) so is there any build I could use, preferably Marine/Tanks, but I'd also go Mech if you guys have an opening that doesn't get me stuck in my base (I used to 2 gas FE, off 1 rax into fast rax+starport). Maybe a hellion build into mech? Or mass marine opening that allows me to hold off early tank rushes.
I'm low master btw.
Just start hellion production before tanks and you're not stuck in your base at all and you get total map control.
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I can't do shit against Protoss or Zerg it seems everytime I move out my army just gets overrun this its fucking game over or they just come and roll over me idk, my money is always low its not macro i dont know wtf it is. Can someone give me some broad advice on the match ups cause im just lost.
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Could anyone advise me a good mech opener in TvZ? I use a blueflame hellion (2fact) opening but ofcourse when the zerg goes for a big roach push I instalose and it's also quite gimmicky.
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On April 01 2012 06:22 RmoteCntrld wrote:
I can't do shit against Protoss or Zerg it seems everytime I move out my army just gets overrun this its fucking game over or they just come and roll over me idk, my money is always low its not macro i dont know wtf it is. Can someone give me some broad advice on the match ups cause im just lost.
well, I can only offer what others say all the time: Be aggressive or die. You will never beat a protoss if you don't trade units or kill probes/tech, he'll roll over you everytime. Against zerg you can kinda play passive mech, but even then you've to watch out for hive tech rushes and be aggressive to force him to make units.
It would be helpful if you could mention your league.
On April 01 2012 06:22 RmoteCntrld wrote:
Could anyone advise me a good mech opener in TvZ? I use a blueflame hellion (2fact) opening but ofcourse when the zerg goes for a big roach push I instalose and it's also quite gimmicky.
I would advice you to look into those threads:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=308972
(try flying your rax into his base aftter you got the 3 factories with addons down, to scout and react accordingly to a roach push)
or
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=321507
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On April 01 2012 07:00 OmegaKnetus wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 06:22 RmoteCntrld wrote:
I can't do shit against Protoss or Zerg it seems everytime I move out my army just gets overrun this its fucking game over or they just come and roll over me idk, my money is always low its not macro i dont know wtf it is. Can someone give me some broad advice on the match ups cause im just lost. well, I can only offer what others say all the time: Be aggressive or die. You will never beat a protoss if you don't trade units or kill probes/tech, he'll roll over you everytime. Against zerg you can kinda play passive mech, but even then you've to watch out for hive tech rushes and be aggressive to force him to make units. It would be helpful if you could mention your league.
Diamond
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On April 01 2012 07:03 RmoteCntrld wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2012 07:00 OmegaKnetus wrote:On April 01 2012 06:22 RmoteCntrld wrote:
I can't do shit against Protoss or Zerg it seems everytime I move out my army just gets overrun this its fucking game over or they just come and roll over me idk, my money is always low its not macro i dont know wtf it is. Can someone give me some broad advice on the match ups cause im just lost. well, I can only offer what others say all the time: Be aggressive or die. You will never beat a protoss if you don't trade units or kill probes/tech, he'll roll over you everytime. Against zerg you can kinda play passive mech, but even then you've to watch out for hive tech rushes and be aggressive to force him to make units. It would be helpful if you could mention your league. Diamond
Yeah, you know I kind of have the same problems, I keep my money low most of the time, but It just isn't enough. I have to do cutesy 2 pronged drops, and all that jazz, while p and z just defend and max out.
I've had the most success with well executed timings. For exaple Demuslim'S hellion marine timing in tvz and then following up with a big attack.
IF you look at other non korean terrans, they strongly rely on timings too.
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Lately I'm just using hellions a fuckload. Having a lot more fun and winning more. They're useful in every matchup if you play with different builds. In particular, opening marauder into a marauder hellion midgame is solid against Protoss - just remember ghosts. Blue flame hellions are useful all game long against Zerg. And I mech every TvT anyway.
Try it.
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Can someone recommend me some recent vods of korean mech in tvt?
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Hi everyone,
I'm a platinum Terran, that feels like that I need a lot of work with army compositions, and engaging the enemy properly and attacking properly. I seem to do okay in TvP - Marines/Marauders don't really need a lot of set up time, and I find the positioning intuitive.
However, in both TvT and TvZ, I struggle a bit. For this short post, I was hoping I could get some insight on how to engage in TvZ. I attached a replay where I truly feel like I'm ahead all game, and throw away my army several times into losing.
http://drop.sc/149527
No, my macro isn't perfect, and it balloons over 1000 minerals several times, but my zerg opponent is around the same level of macro (imperfect). I watched the replay and I had a very strong economy, and was at 55+ workers while he was at 38 drones, but I couldn't ever make that game-ending push, because he killed my army so efficiently. I wasn't even BMing at the end of the replay. It was basically exasperated indecision, knowing that I was ahead for so long, but didn't know what to do. I think I gave up even before that point, and I could've held his last push if I hadn't already lost it mentally.
Thanks for any advice!
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On April 01 2012 09:09 Cracked wrote:Hi everyone, I'm a platinum Terran, that feels like that I need a lot of work with army compositions, and engaging the enemy properly and attacking properly. I seem to do okay in TvP - Marines/Marauders don't really need a lot of set up time, and I find the positioning intuitive. However, in both TvT and TvZ, I struggle a bit. For this short post, I was hoping I could get some insight on how to engage in TvZ. I attached a replay where I truly feel like I'm ahead all game, and throw away my army several times into losing. http://drop.sc/149527No, my macro isn't perfect, and it balloons over 1000 minerals several times, but my zerg opponent is around the same level of macro (imperfect). I watched the replay and I had a very strong economy, and was at 55+ workers while he was at 38 drones, but I couldn't ever make that game-ending push, because he killed my army so efficiently. I wasn't even BMing at the end of the replay. It was basically exasperated indecision, knowing that I was ahead for so long, but didn't know what to do. I think I gave up even before that point, and I could've held his last push if I hadn't already lost it mentally. Thanks for any advice!
Well for one, you need to work on when you drop your mules. I noticed at around the 8:30 mark, you had more than 4 mules stored up and in your main, you almost never dropped any energy.
Second, you need to macro while pushing. You're production slipped while you were attacking around the 10:30-11:00 mark. While pushing across the map, you should have also placed down more rax and a starport. You did after your push, but that loss of production hurt you.
You also have alota tanks stacked up but you aren't making any more units, a third, or more production.
You didn't transfer over works until the game was almost over, and never really powered rax with your mineral surplus.
You almost never muled which really, really hurts you.
And finally, in both of your pushes, you got caught unsieged.
When you see infestors, make ghosts. When you see ultras, power rax with tech labs for marauders.
PM me if you need clarification / more help.
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Hey Guys
Im a Platinum Toss switching to Terran for Season 7 to try something different. Are there any beginner builds that you guys could recommend for me for each match up? I watch GSL and MLG and IEM etc and know that reactor Hellions are the way to go in TvZ.
Also, what maps should I veto as a Terran with the latest map pool. I was thinking Tal'Darim and Day Break, but would like some advice from a seasoned Terran player.
Cheers
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I'm in Platinum, but should be in Gold. Since I'm not experienced, it's hard for me to micro while macroing, so things like Hellion harass really hurt my macro. But every time I face a Zerg, they seem to just drone and expand since they're under no threats, and then 25 mutas show up at my base. I try to scout the Spire with scans, but I always seem to miss it. The game I just played, he was at 180 supply when I was at 125. Banelings/zerglings pretty much rolled my whole Marine/Tank army and he still had a ton of mutas to spare.
My macro was obviously worse than his, but I still feel like I have no answer to Zergs who play passive and all of a sudden appear with 20 mutas. Is there a reliable way to scout the Spire, and how do I harass to stop him from droning with poor micro?
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On April 01 2012 06:22 RmoteCntrld wrote:
I can't do shit against Protoss or Zerg it seems everytime I move out my army just gets overrun this its fucking game over or they just come and roll over me idk, my money is always low its not macro i dont know wtf it is. Can someone give me some broad advice on the match ups cause im just lost.
Can't say much until you post a replay. Even when you say you keep your money low, doesn't mean that macro isn't the problem. Your money could be low because you don't make enough workers, or are just not efficient with your build (investing in tech, upgrades, production, etc during wonky times).
If you want a solid macro build vs protoss, try to think in this mindset: always stay 1 base ahead of protoss. I'll elaborate more later.
With zerg, do a lot of fake pushes, but don't engage. Just make sure the zerg sees your army move around, kill creep tumors, and turn back. Make sure he's not investing in drones so you can kill him later as your advantages start piling up.
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EPT
