EPT[G] TvZ Mech Play Timing Push - Page 2
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zhengsta
United States126 Posts
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nonni
Denmark13 Posts
stil do you always go for the banshee-->battlecruisers late game or was it cuz of the heavy roach play from him? | ||
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TuxThePenguin
32 Posts
I would imagine you would need to incorporate atleast some ghosts into your build late game. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
On July 28 2011 02:55 Crytch wrote: 8.30 is way before early mutas. Early mutas will pop up at 10-11, but if you harras with hellions the zerg must defend and wont be able to tech that greedy to mutas. I also play mech in my TvZs and i win most of em. I never tried this build, but i have to say that you need to add ghosts if your pushs fail more or less early, cause zerg will answer with ifnestors or broodlords to your mechcomposition, and ghosts roflstomp both of em. GL/HF with mech against zerg, its pure ♥ to see 200 supply zergarmys go down while the mechplayer just loose 10 bf-hellions, 20 supply....cuuuute.  /edit: watched the english youtube video and think you easily won it with your first push if you microd your marines instead of let banelings run into them :D nice guide, will try it. Haha thanks. Yeah, I have given up on air vs BLs while keeping Tanks for the infestors... I just go Ghost with Thor/Hellion, maybe a few tanks, but not "needed" in a 200 vs 200 battle. Though I tend to open 2 rax so that I can use these later for ghosts, but maybe ill use this push and just add more rax later. | ||
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gillon
Sweden1578 Posts
On July 28 2011 04:08 Squigly wrote: This isnt pure mech, its more bio mech, cuz of you know, all the marines. Still not bad. User was warned for this post The timing push is kinda biomech, but the followup is pretty much pure mech. | ||
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Iberville
Canada207 Posts
Now a newbie question: what happens if your pushes end horribly, or he techs up to quick infestors and creates havoc, and winds up going broodlords? There aren't any Starports in this build so far. Thanks | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
On July 29 2011 05:00 iAmJeffReY wrote: Dude you're doing nothing but trolling, and adding in the last line of bs 'still great' 'thumbs up it works' c'mon dude. Oddly enough, I was watching a TvZ stream the day before you released this of a 1 base marine tank hellion timing push that was almost like this BO to the DOT, sans the FE. The level of players you used it against aren't slack at all either, which makes it even better. I'm always a fan of marine hellion timing pushes against any race...but to throw in an FE, and 2 fac for tanks as well? As decaf said.. I think any zerg that goes muta just auto losses once those 2 thors pop out and he can't deal with that push. Lol stop being a douchebag for no reason. Ive made two posts. First one saying how his push isnt actually mech, which has now been established as true. Secondly to say that id tried the build and it works quite well. Both informative posts. Whats your post saying, lets see. First off your a dick talking about me trolling, nice and informative. Secondly you say you like the build and state the fucking obvious of rush to muta loses. So does rush to brood. Cheers mate. We werent aware thors own mutas. Your comment is so fucking valuable, i suggest a medal. Also you talk a little about how you watched a stream and someone did a similar build. Awesome mate. Thank you. If they did the same build, and you put some effort into saying what went well and what didnt, might actually be helpful. But no. (A FE changes the build rather a lot )Thirdly, wait, your post is over. Great job. Super post. Anyways, ive had issues as stated by others with 2 base baneling busts. Do you happen to have any vids of you beating a 2 base bane bust? | ||
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Pam
France33 Posts
You should include the factory reactor expand build order too because I don't really know it. I will change this topic in a more teamliquid way (with a lot of spoilers) as soon as I have the time and the will, otherwise 10 supply 12 barrack 15 orbital command 16 marine Supply as soon as possible @100% supply, factory @80% factory, command center the follow up is detailed in the video I go with 5 - 8 helions, ~~ 10 marines and two tanks-two svc auto repair Mass speedling would own this, no? Until now, I didn't have problem against mass speedling It's critical to keep your first helions alive, because you'll need them for the push, and clear the map is the z is active with his lings, but 8 BFH is really strong I don't know the timing of a 2 base baneling bust, but I guess he needs to have control of the map to come with his baneling, so I guess it will be between his lings and my helions @Tokyla about baneling landmines Going burrow as soon as possible is quite an investment at this stage of the game, plus it's really tempting to use a scan near the ennemy's base to kill tumors, so I don't think that's a reliable option. As for lings and muta countering BFH + thors, I guess it would be doable if the zerg overmacro the terran hard, which is not the case before and after the push @zhengsta map control I guess Another part of the strength of this build, it's how much it looks standard As long as the z doesn't scout the 2 factory, it looks like a marine tank timing push, which arranges me @TuxThePenguin It's situational In theory, the t has more option and range than the zerg, so he has many options to deal with neural parasite Until now, I used sieged tanks + banshee to focus fire the infestors, and helions too if there is no lings (splash damage !§) Ghost helps a lot, I don't have much experience with them though I have a replay where I use them but it's not really to take into consideration because I won the game with hunter seeker missile I'll upload the replay nevertheless + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-223595.jpg) @Iberville It's really rare that this pushes fails, if it does we're on a equal foot on econ, so I'll have to harass and expand while upgrading and grinding to the 200/200 The starport can be added right after the push, to go drop with helions, plus it helps a lot with thors in battle With reactor, it's definitely being a step ahead on the late game, vikings against broodlords-corruptors with the support of | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
Dude you're doing nothing but trolling, and adding in the last line of bs 'still great' 'thumbs up it works' c'mon dude. Oddly enough, I was watching a TvZ stream the day before you released this of a 1 base marine tank hellion timing push that was almost like this BO to the DOT, sans the FE. The level of players you used it against aren't slack at all either, which makes it even better. I'm always a fan of marine hellion timing pushes against any race...but to throw in an FE, and 2 fac for tanks as well? As decaf said.. I think any zerg that goes muta just auto losses once those 2 thors pop out and he can't deal with that push. Stop hating? He didn't hate so you shouldn't either. Also, Pam has a good point about the Hellions. Many times I get greedy, still thinking that at certain points in the game it is worth it to potentially sacrifice some Hellions to kill drones, but you have to remember when not to sacrifice them. For example, right when you're about to push. You're going to push to do damage anyways, so there's little point trying to kill drones before the push, which will just let any speedlings rape ur thor and/or tank lol. | ||
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mattenno
United States26 Posts
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Pam
France33 Posts
Because there is a reactor on the barracks and you should be able to put turrets in time, then you have thors edit for lann: The third replay (against xaM) shows what I do against roaches Skip the blue flames, go with 4 tanks, rally helions you just need more svc to repair | ||
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Lann555
Netherlands5173 Posts
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Exstasy
United Kingdom393 Posts
It would suit my style more this way although I love the structure and shape of your build, Thanks for your contribution. | ||
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ElFuego
United States45 Posts
On July 29 2011 01:39 Squigly wrote: Ha i got warned for this. Must be some power drunk mod XD Ive tried this build out and it actually works wonders. Thumbs up. User was temp banned for this post. #1 Why in the world would someone be banned for this? #2 Love this build, I've been starting to go mech against protoss but haven't had any success with my mech build orders vs. zerg (always ends up being just bio mech). I REALLY like the double upgrade aspect and I feel that's part of what makes this build so strong since thors with + armor are uber hard to kill (as if they weren't already). I've only seen the youtube video as I'm at work but my the only real flaw I saw in the vid was the lack of harassment. Now I know there was a lot of back and forth in this game so there wasn't much time but I just get the inkling that building a drop ship or two and doing a BF Helion drop would have worked wonders. Thoughts? P.S. I'm only Diamond but looking to get to masters and def need more refined build orders than my own, like this one so thanks. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
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Zaixer
Sweden82 Posts
I think you said that you always build mostly thors even if the opponent go roach heavy, is that so you dont get destroyed by a muta tech switch? | ||
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Pam
France33 Posts
Well, the recent games (MMA vs Slush) showed a way to open with harass MMA then transitionned/transferred into bio, but it seems possible to me to go mech while dropping blue flames/expanding It's an option I haven't developped yet, but definitely something that can change my way to deal with this matchup I think it's possible to support on 2 base (right after the push- as soon as you're on 4gaz) 3 fact 2 tech lab 1 reactor 1 starport (with tech lab after the medivac if you wish raven-banshee support) the key point will be to do a fair production between tanks/thors/helion/medivac to always have your gaz low, and expand during the harass another option would be 3 fact 2 tech lab 1 reactor 2 barrax 2 tech lab To have production of ghost if you wish to deal with infestors, plus with snipe ability and cloak, it's really useful in each engagement against the z @Zaixer I like thors once they are 3/3, they two shots the roaches, so in great number, roaches army melt against thors In the other way, the zerg can overwhelm you before the 200/200 stage, that's why you need a handful of sieged tanks to be safe while expanding/increasing your numbers of factories edit @Kornholi0 In order to deal with this push, the zerg need to cut drones, so we should have the same economy To scout this, the zerg needs to see the 2 factories with an overlord, which is deniable with 1 - 2 marines well placed in your main With same micro from both side, I think the terran will be ahead, except if his helions are trapped by a ton of glings, which is really not common and avoidable What is the 1.30 minute you're talking about ? it doesn't take that long to travel maps Infestors aren't out when this push hits, so the zerg will suffer from the push Plus, if he has roaches, they won't be an immediate menace of infestors nor mutas | ||
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Kornholi0
Canada634 Posts
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Skank
United States329 Posts
On July 30 2011 14:14 Kornholi0 wrote: I think a lot more work can be done on the writeup, seems like a nice build but what if the zerg scouts it and is completely prepared? What are the follow ups? It may "destroy" the infestor opening, but that completely depends on the control of the zerg as a prepared infestoring player generally looks at a mech build and can handle it. Although it does hit at 8:30, this seems like you just won't have enough stuff to deal with the minute 30 of lings + roaches that the zerg will have (well controlled). The push is spearheaded by helions, which helps diminish ling numbers, and gives the terran the option to retreat if he sees that the Zerg overracted. If the zerg did overreact, the damage is done. | ||
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Pam
France33 Posts
I don't know the timing of the second gaz, I think I took it a little bit late It puts you in a defensiv position, which is quite different that was the push does here's the replay, the opponent was one of the worst I met on the teamliquid channel ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-224016.jpg) | ||
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