EPT[G] Safe PvP - Defensive 3 Gate - Page 8
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brandog712
United States13 Posts
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On July 09 2011 08:17 brandog712 wrote: Using this build im getting absolutely demolished by robo play. They go late gas robo, quick FF. When i pock with those 6 units, they already have immortal out. From there, they just mass immortals and stalkers. Doesn't matter If i contain, they have so many immortals. I tried expanding when they expand, and expanding before. Can't figure it out, seems like a BO loss to me. Any tips? Post up the replay! Sounds to me like you're losing to earlier tech? This was pointed out as a weakness by a lot of people earlier in the thread. | ||
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Geiko
France1944 Posts
On July 09 2011 08:17 brandog712 wrote: Using this build im getting absolutely demolished by robo play. They go late gas robo, quick FF. When i pock with those 6 units, they already have immortal out. From there, they just mass immortals and stalkers. Doesn't matter If i contain, they have so many immortals. I tried expanding when they expand, and expanding before. Can't figure it out, seems like a BO loss to me. Any tips? If you've made it past the early game with the correct gas timings, than the BO does what it is supposed to : set you up for the mid game with no tech disadvantage. Sounds to me like you are losing blink play vs robo (which you shouldn't be) (at least not consistently). You should either practise playing blink vs robo (counter attack, constant poking, good blink micro), or try the opening with the robo transition if you really have no success with blink. However, I would strongly suggest that you practise your blink play in PvP. It seems like more and more pro players are favouring this tech path, and pure robo play is falling out of style. The recent matches have shown pros get twilight and robo for observers. Cecil what exactly do you mean by earlier tech ? You mean by the time you have blink (1 minute later than blink rushes) the robo player has already crossed the map, marched up your ramp through your forcefield and killed you ? ^ | ||
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Volka
Argentina411 Posts
There's something that I don't like, however; the fact that you reassure that it crushes 4 gate completly. You should add that to do it so you need good micro and a well placed Force Field (if you miss that FF you're oh so much trouble  These might seem like obvious stuff at Masters level, but it's not so easy to execute for plat- leaguers. So I think you should clarify that in your OP post. | ||
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Geiko
France1944 Posts
On July 09 2011 09:27 Volka wrote: First off, Geiko, this is such a well written guide, nice work! There's something that I don't like, however; the fact that you reassure that it crushes 4 gate completly. You should add that to do it so you need good micro and a well placed Force Field (if you miss that FF you're oh so much trouble These might seem like obvious stuff at Masters level, but it's not so easy to execute for plat- leaguers. So I think you should clarify that in your OP post. Well the thing is, for plat leaguers, the 4 gate comes 20-30 secs late so it's also a hell of a lot easier to hold. My post just assumes equal skill from both opponents. However it is true that you have some specific micro to do for different case scenarios, mainly be prepared to FF your ramp perfectly if he is massing units outside your base or be prepared to micro inside your base if he is sending in his units as he makes them. | ||
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GomJabbar
United States161 Posts
This seriously does hold 4-gate easily. If they go 1 gas and try to 4-gate, it seems almost like a build-order win for me. I love it! If I scout a quick second gas (quicker than the 24 supply I am planning with this build) I get a bit put off of the build order. I want to place my gas at the same time as them to not get behind, but then it screws up the rest of the timings. And I know they're teching fast, so I don't want to put down the 3rd gate and delay my tech when I know I don't have to anymore. Deviating from the build before the 2nd gas and 2 extra gates go down is giving me trouble. Because the tech comes after 3 gates, unless they're 4-gating their tech will go down faster. This has actually led to some awesome situations where I get to scout a fast robo before I've put down my own tech, allowing me to instantly throw down a stargate in response and have a huge midgame advantage. Of course, better players won't let me see their tech so easily. If they open fast robo and have 2 or more immortals by the time blink finishes, I definitely can't attack. I'm not sure of the ideal followup here, but I've won games by going for charge and getting archons, and just expanding a bunch of times at different corners of the map. I've lost twice now to DT rushes. Perhaps I have to be poking up the ramp a bit sooner after the 6 minute mark, but by the time a probe or stalker goes up their ramp and sees a high zealot count I haven't been able to get a cannon up by the time a DT shows up in my base. If anyone can share tips about being safer against DTs when doing this sort of blink opening I'd be glad to hear about it. Perhaps if I spot a really early 2nd gas I should just go robo straight up... Anyway, the timings and idea of the build are brilliant! It really is "safe" PvP that won't set you too far behind in tech. But it does seem to set you behind a little, which can sometimes be all it takes to lose in PvP. I don't know if I like this or 3-stalker-rush (2-gate robo) better on maps with ramps, but this build is definitely easier and higher-percentage to defend 4-gate. | ||
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Volka
Argentina411 Posts
On July 15 2011 02:51 GomJabbar wrote: I've lost twice now to DT rushes. Perhaps I have to be poking up the ramp a bit sooner after the 6 minute mark, but by the time a probe or stalker goes up their ramp and sees a high zealot count I haven't been able to get a cannon up by the time a DT shows up in my base. If anyone can share tips about being safer against DTs when doing this sort of blink opening I'd be glad to hear about it. Perhaps if I spot a really early 2nd gas I should just go robo straight up... If you do the poke and suspect DTs, put your Zealots on hold position on your ramp and be prepared to FF while you get some detection. | ||
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GomJabbar
United States161 Posts
On July 15 2011 03:47 Volka wrote: If you do the poke and suspect DTs, put your Zealots on hold position on your ramp and be prepared to FF while you get some detection. I actually did that with my entire army. Both times. Still wasn't enough time for the cannon to get up, before it chopped through enough of my army to make it up the ramp. In one instance, it had killed so much of my army that the rest of his army (he had committed to 1 or 2 DTs) could rush up the ramp and kill me. I'm sure I'm just not making the cannon/forge early enough. What's a good time to poke up his ramp once the 4-gate time period has passed? | ||
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Geiko
France1944 Posts
On July 15 2011 05:09 GomJabbar wrote: I actually did that with my entire army. Both times. Still wasn't enough time for the cannon to get up, before it chopped through enough of my army to make it up the ramp. In one instance, it had killed so much of my army that the rest of his army (he had committed to 1 or 2 DTs) could rush up the ramp and kill me. I'm sure I'm just not making the cannon/forge early enough. What's a good time to poke up his ramp once the 4-gate time period has passed? Poke up the ramp with your first units (zealot + 3/6 stalkers + sentry). You can also put a probe right at the bottom of the ramp to bait some units. If he comes down with a couple units, FF behind them and enjoy the free kills ^^. Concerning the DT defense, you didn't understand how it is supposed to work ^^. You put a bit of your army (2 zealots or 1z + 1s) on hold position at your ramp. When he strats cutting through it, you FF your ramp so the DTs can't get in. Once the FF goes up you don't let the DTs keep on attacking your army :D. Immediately get forge + robo while the DTs are stuck behind the FFs and keep on FFing every 14 seconds. you should have 4 FFs with your initial sentry, then you can warp in 2 (or 3 if you missed a FF) sentries to get 2 more FFs. By that time your cannon should be complete. | ||
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GomJabbar
United States161 Posts
Also want to add that I held off a master's 4-gate with this build yesterday (I'm diamond). He contained and expanded while I got blink. I should've had the game won but I decided to attack down the ramp into his concave and got my army crushed :/ overestimated my blink micro. Still, until that point I was ahead in army and workers and tech! | ||
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Chaos_SC2
Hong Kong9 Posts
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TheRealFluid
United States501 Posts
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ribboo
Sweden1842 Posts
On July 09 2011 08:17 brandog712 wrote: Using this build im getting absolutely demolished by robo play. They go late gas robo, quick FF. When i pock with those 6 units, they already have immortal out. From there, they just mass immortals and stalkers. Doesn't matter If i contain, they have so many immortals. I tried expanding when they expand, and expanding before. Can't figure it out, seems like a BO loss to me. Any tips? Immortals in PvP? Well, get 2 collosi and win then. Just cut his army in half if he tries to push up your ramp before they are out. If your opponent goes heavy immortal, you will always have collosi earlier, which means more. Zealot + colli beats immortal stalker, easily. | ||
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Tryxtira
Sweden572 Posts
Again, very well made and please keep making builds this well-refined! It's a pleasure reading the OP | ||
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Geiko
France1944 Posts
On July 16 2011 15:49 TheRealFluid wrote: Geiko, is it possible for you to post a replay with you winning the game using blink. I've been having trouble using blink effectively with this build. So, I finally got a decent computer back (2 weeks without competitive SC2  ).I don't have any replays except for the couple of ladder games I played yesterday. I usually don't post low level replays (I play at around the 1600 Master level), and my execution is terrible, but it's all I got ! ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-221495.jpg) | ||
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rems
Netherlands186 Posts
Of to grind for a promotion!  | ||
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Saiton
Sweden467 Posts
http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/18-07-11/127890-prOpSaiton-VS-actioN.html | ||
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Harmonized
57 Posts
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QTIP.
United States2113 Posts
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Geiko
France1944 Posts
On July 19 2011 04:06 prOpSaiton wrote: Tournamentgame(Diamonds are forever) Featuring Diamond VS Diamond where i'm executing the build and following it up with a robo. And proceed to lose the game. Felt like sharing it though, since it felt like a good one on my part. http://www.sc-replay.com/replay/18-07-11/127890-prOpSaiton-VS-actioN.html Pretty good start (although you were 15 or so seconds late on the build). What lost you the game was that pylon blockage that got you 1 colossus late, and also that terrible decision to not go and kill that last colo with 28 hp. Engagements could have been better, but other than that your macro is good and map awareness also. I think you left the game too early. 10 seconds later you could have matched his army count, and you still had the probe lead. Then a DT switch (into zealot archon), and with a bit of luck you kill 5 or 6 probes and you are still in the game. | ||
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