|
My build has the same end but gets there faster and stronger i think.
-16 nexus and add on a single gateway with double forges and cybercore, like 2 cannons and drone up
-take all 4 gas, chronoing probes, when you have enough money for upgrades then stop chronoing probes and start on upgrades.
-add on 3 more gates, a twilight, and a robo, chrono out observer, warp in stalkers, if you see a spire with your observer then drop more gates; if there are just roaches then go for a second robo.
-push out with 2/2 and blinkstalkers/immortals with a few zealouts while taking your third
-add on both high/dark templar archives
-after third is saturated keep pressuring, and take 4th
-add 3 stargates and pump voids with 2 cyber cores for air upgrades
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/5144
|
On June 11 2011 04:29 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2011 04:13 CecilSunkure wrote:
You rely solely on stalkers to kill broodlords? I think having voidrays lategame is way smarter, and better.
Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 18:59 SeaSwift wrote:
If you get an early Stargate, I would begin making Void Rays from that as soon as you feel safe on 2base. That should easily deal with the main problem with this build (Fast Hive ---> Broodlords). Immortal/Templar also relies heavily upon scouting constantly, so that you can get the required unit composition (Immortals>Ultras, Templar>Hydras, VRs>BLs etc). But you're a blue post, so people will listen to you  Relying on Stalkers to kill Broodlords is definitely a bad idea most idea most of the time, as Stalkers scale really badly, so you will have to switch out eventually.
I have to disagree with the both of you and say that comp is powerful but overall less effective as a game plan than just mass upgraded blink stalker with a little templar support. Its more versatile, it can be quickly rebuilt, its mobile, and its only weakness is ultras, which zealots can hold in place for a very long time while you get an additional robo for immortal. Your comp is slow, vulnerable, hard to replace, and not nearly invincible like a standard max deathball. You won't come out of a fight with only small losses and you will lose a the war of attrition due to running out of templar energy on your amuletless templar. That was a great comp when we had amulet though
|
On June 11 2011 16:32 BlinkGosu wrote:My build has the same end but gets there faster and stronger i think. -16 nexus and add on a single gateway with double forges and cybercore, like 2 cannons and drone up -take all 4 gas, chronoing probes, when you have enough money for upgrades then stop chronoing probes and start on upgrades. -add on 3 more gates, a twilight, and a robo, chrono out observer, warp in stalkers, if you see a spire with your observer then drop more gates; if there are just roaches then go for a second robo. -push out with 2/2 and blinkstalkers/immortals with a few zealouts while taking your third -add on both high/dark templar archives -after third is saturated keep pressuring, and take 4th -add 3 stargates and pump voids with 2 cyber cores for air upgrades http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/5144
Sounds good, which skill level we talking about? If it's below masters I cba to watch the rep tbh 
|
On May 19 2011 10:54 FiWiFaKi wrote:
You want to get attack armor attack attack for your upgrades. At the 14ish minute mark when your 1/1 is just finishing youll have your twilight finishing and I am at 6-8 at this point. Still your only units will be zealot + stalker + sentry + immortals but because you have approximatly 60 probes over 3 bases you'll have more stuff than your opponent.
How can you have more stuff than your opponent when zerg is already maxed?
|
On June 11 2011 23:24 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2011 10:54 FiWiFaKi wrote:
You want to get attack armor attack attack for your upgrades. At the 14ish minute mark when your 1/1 is just finishing youll have your twilight finishing and I am at 6-8 at this point. Still your only units will be zealot + stalker + sentry + immortals but because you have approximatly 60 probes over 3 bases you'll have more stuff than your opponent.
How can you have more stuff than your opponent when zerg is already maxed?
^^
I think its a great build.. but one that suffers from lack of reactionary play. So you are going to make zealot/stalker/immortal until you have your third.. every time? Maybe you will scout a hydra/ling allin with your observer, and what then? You have your third started at 10:30 exactly with 4-5 immortals and zealots and stalkers and no way to transition out of it.
I feel like this is one of the greatest guides on TL IF the title was changed from "[G] PvZ Quick 3 Base Templar/Immortal" to.. idk something like "[G] PvZ Proper Reaction to Standard Roach/Hydra."
The problem with this is that you are setting up such exact timings for everything, and you have not covered all the zerg's possibilities in depth enough to make the build able to adjust in time. This guide might help the lower level players who have trouble with zerg in general, but when you get up into high masters (where you ARE) the build is simply not flexible enough to deal with all of zerg's various builds.
Nevertheless, I love the idea of this build though and will try to implement it more in my gameplay against zerg.. I've been feeling a bit too pressured into 2 base 5/6 gate blink stalker play with colossi. Thank you for this guide, FiWiFaKi!
|
On June 11 2011 23:12 Jayrod wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2011 04:29 SeaSwift wrote:On June 11 2011 04:13 CecilSunkure wrote:
You rely solely on stalkers to kill broodlords? I think having voidrays lategame is way smarter, and better.
On May 19 2011 18:59 SeaSwift wrote:
If you get an early Stargate, I would begin making Void Rays from that as soon as you feel safe on 2base. That should easily deal with the main problem with this build (Fast Hive ---> Broodlords). Immortal/Templar also relies heavily upon scouting constantly, so that you can get the required unit composition (Immortals>Ultras, Templar>Hydras, VRs>BLs etc). But you're a blue post, so people will listen to you Relying on Stalkers to kill Broodlords is definitely a bad idea most idea most of the time, as Stalkers scale really badly, so you will have to switch out eventually. I have to disagree with the both of you and say that comp is powerful but overall less effective as a game plan than just mass upgraded blink stalker with a little templar support. Its more versatile, it can be quickly rebuilt, its mobile, and its only weakness is ultras, which zealots can hold in place for a very long time while you get an additional robo for immortal. Your comp is slow, vulnerable, hard to replace, and not nearly invincible like a standard max deathball. You won't come out of a fight with only small losses and you will lose a the war of attrition due to running out of templar energy on your amuletless templar. That was a great comp when we had amulet though
I don't really see the basis for you saying most of that. I'd agree blink stalkers are more mobile and easier to replace in the sense that it's easier to produce one type of unit from one type of production facility, but I don't agree with the rest.
Immortals with templar support defeats everything a zerg can throw directly at it, except for broodlords. So once you see them coming you can use reactionary voidrays in the late game. Immortals just can't really be hard countered, unlike stalkers that really only shine when they can be mobile.
|
This is a really strong yet unexplored unit composition, I really hope more protosses use it simply because it's much more exciting watching storms than colossus ^^
I'm wondering whether sentry expand is really the best way to go if you want this midgame, are sentries really all that useful in this composition? Immortals and archons don't have that much range... I don't play protoss though, so I don't know much, but it seems like blink stalkers are powerful enough that you could do some sort of blink expand rather than sentry expand... I dunno. :/
|
So I find this thread and I'm thinking OMG someone but me uses this build too, but then I realised it was mine from a while back. So this has been my standard PvZ build and I have been practicing this build with some top 500-1000 NA players because two base muta plays do eat it up.
Looking over some of the recent comments, I personally think 3 gate sentry expand into immortals into third base is the safest way to get quick third base. Too often nowadays you see zergs do any 30-40 drone roach pushes with sling support than I honestly don't think you can hold if your opponent plays it right without a robo... Especially if you are skimping on cannons. The idea is though, your opponent isn't allowed to take a super quick third because you still have a decent army, and Im sure every zerg has taken a third with almost no army and then you get pushed with a zealot + sentry + immortal timing push and you just flat out die.
Banelings I don't find do good, in midgame atleast, baneling drops on the other hand are decent, they eat up sentry/zealot quickly however having a couple archons does very well. Overall they are decent but not something I could call a counter.
Broodlords, hmm, I think they are being overhyped here. I have lots of observers, if you don't have a large standing army I push you... I can't really see you have enough resources to make say 10 broodlords at once, and if you have 5 or so, I have plenty of time to scout it and I can make stalkers accordingly. Also if I see corruptors and I have no collosis I know something is up. And VR are again, very good units, and like you said Cecil in the perfect combo it's great to have them, but it's partially why the Collosis/VR deathball went out of style, defending till you grow one of those armies takes a while, as pretty much every game the zerg will try to all-in you, I certainly dont think the proper response to a 3 gate immortal/templar toss is to take a 4th and 5th base. If I have 70 workers what use will a 4th and 5th be, 100 drones to saturate is too much obviously.
If any higher masters want some practice facing this build or want to learn this build from me feel free to send me a PM on TL. Also I think I might be revamping this thread in the future because it is a lot of fun.
|
I've tried this build at a high Diamond/low Masters level and it seems to get crushed the moment they transition to Brood Lords. Does anyone have a replay that they can upload that includes the transition to Brood Lords?
|
On June 14 2011 10:06 -Trippin- wrote:
I've tried this build at a high Diamond/low Masters level and it seems to get crushed the moment they transition to Brood Lords. Does anyone have a replay that they can upload that includes the transition to Brood Lords?
Shouldn't your blink be done waaaay before they transition to BLs? In any case, if you want to see a version of this build dealing with broods, go here:
Download Round of 16 Replays
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232646
Look for Inka vs Ryse. I think it's game 1 on Shattered temple.
|
That's one of my preferred builds in PvZ, except I open DTs for early map control, harass and delay his third. Then I tech blink, a robo for immortals, get a decent little army, and go for a templar archive when I take my 3rd. Then I'll spam templars and fusion them to archons, skipping storm. My mid/end game compo is chargelots, blink stalkers, archons and immortals with double-forge upgrades. Once I get that compo, it's very hard for the Zerg to stop me.
I also found that his compo is very effective against ultralisks ( archons and immortals rape them ), and can hold temporarily decently versus a moderate amount of boord lords. However, it must be completed by some voidrays once the number of brood lords grows. I've lost quite a few games due to my inability to harass the Zerg when he's got B5+ and tons of brood lords, because I didn't anticipate his brood lords quickly enough.
|
On June 11 2011 04:13 CecilSunkure wrote:
You rely solely on stalkers to kill broodlords? I think having voidrays lategame is way smarter, and better.
The ultimate PvZ combo of units is voidray, immortal, high templar, archon. You have immortal for all armour units, splash for everything else, and voidrays for broodlords. If you know this, you can create a gameplan to acquire these, and I think the build you shared is pretty similar to what I've been doing for a while now (except I haven't been sharing my builds lately).
I like to go 3 gate expand, into robo + forge. Get 1/1, and you want a twilight to finish once 1/1 finishes. The robo gives you the option of immortals in case of a lot of roaches, and 1/1 + blink, sentries, and immortals can easily hold roach/hydra/ling mid-game. The next step is either DT + warp prisms, or high templar tech.
Then once you know the zerg is going for broodlords, slap down 2-3 stargates and chrono out a lot of voidrays.
Pretty solid gameplan imo. In case of muta/ling, you should see this coming with hallu/obs, and go to whichever templar tech path you prefer, but you'll need blink and more stalkers than usual (pretty much no more immortals until your stalker count is high).
Would you have some replays to share of you doing this build? That would help me see the build order clearly, and also how it adapts to certain situations. I think the OP sounds good but i watched the replay and prefer to not open stargate because im not confident in my micro.
Some specific questions actually - do you use the robo for the natural wall off? When do you expand to the 3rd??
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
