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Allright so for my first post after following for 2 years 
The answer to the question has been tested out for microing unit! (has protoss)
So moving out of your base - Patrol works better - your unit will get in a concave instead of setting their self into a blob - for kiting with range unit (stalker) move/hold works better then attack move - unit attack a bit faster and one good thing about it if there is unit without nothing to attack they will stay with the army instead of running away and they will also keep their concave if you do it correctly has for attack move still if there is unit without something to attack they will move away and get yourself into a blob once again.
Now with melee unit (DT,Zealot and i put sentry in it) attack move works better if you have chargelots - for attacking or even mineral harass.
This is pretty much my conclusion after 2 hours of testing in custom game and versus AI.
Hope it helps
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To be honest, a bar graph with 3 bars per category would probably be a lot more effective at conveying the data than the current line graph you have.
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The graph is a bit confusing at first glance, and I question the methodology of "10 seconds attack workers."
This is a great question, but I'm just curious if there might be a better way, perhaps high FPS time-lapse recording or something to detect frame delay in each attack...
And it would have to be done offline.
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I had always used stop (S). Why is that not included, is it already widely known that stop is inferior?
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Good info, but crappy graph. Should've just showed the numbers, it would've been easier to digest the data that way.
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whats the worker kill for slings with one zealot in the mineral line?
looool....
 unless patrol ignores unit priority (:
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I appreciate this post, its informative and looks to prove something and expand upon what we know about SC 2
Thanks
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Also my tactic with Dts really (because I have low Apm) is rally him into a mineral while warping in and just let him go. It gets plenty of kills at my level but I will look into baby siting him more with Patrol/Attack move shift queuing as I'm sure I could get more kills.
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Interesting that zealots do more dps as they hold position.... would have thought the opposite
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On May 17 2011 10:18 MusiK wrote:
Interesting that zealots do more dps as they hold position.... would have thought the opposite
you need to understand the context of the experiment.
He's trying to measure which method is better for maximizing dps in general, not the mineral line (at least as I understand).
In other words, which attack is faster, hold position, stop, attack move, and is it the same across all units (ranged and melee?)
What he found was that a zealot on hold position had better dps than if he was running around over 10 seconds on a more or less fully saturated mineral line.
I don't think anyone should make the logical leap that you should hold position on your zealot if you attack a mineral line.
edit: talking to hawkke on bnet as I wrote this, that is in fact what he's recommending based on this data.
At the very least I'm super duper skeptical of the viability of this unless it's late game.
In general it sounds like an atrocious idea.
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So by this graph, patrol attacking is the best? Not sure if I'm reading it right
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A line graph is possibly the worst choice for this type of analysis. A bar graph would be much better, especially since the x-axis is not even numerical.
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wouldn't the differences be considered a bug? i never played broodwar, but this sounds like it's an unintended advantage for those that have the knowledge+skill.
a unit should patrol until a unit is in range, then attack.
a unit should move until a unit is in range, then attack.
a unit should hold position until a unit is in range, then attack.
there should be no animation lag or anything. maybe there is, but there shouldn't be, imo. it's kinda cool that it can add another element to the gameplay i guess, but it just seems kinda... bad to me.
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On May 17 2011 02:21 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 02:08 ComaDose wrote:
I also believe he was referencing the time it takes to attack the first time. (split second)
Such as vultures fire more rapidly and slow down less when using patrol micro. Ah yes this too but I believe this doesnt change due to the need to see the whole attack animation and also the speed decrease before speed increase being coded into the game better than it was in BW
well that is what he wanted to be sure of I think
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@OP: How many repeats have you done for this test, for fairness?
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On May 17 2011 02:27 Hawkke wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 02:02 ZeromuS wrote:
i dont believe artosis was necessarily referencing units in a mineral line but micro during a battle. Often move patrol move would have benefits with some units in micro situations where the same unit in move attackmove move would do worse than if patrol was used Hrmm, if this is the case, then damn it.. I need to accept challenge again. I thought he meant in regards to mineral line harrass. Guess I deserve that, for having that in my mind. Anyone else realize they have way too many starcraft related thoughts in their minds..
While I love the effort you put into this, I think the above poster was correct and you completely misinterpreted what Artosis was actually asking.
In BW, if you took a vulture and were trying to micro with it on the move, it would attack faster by using patrol commands than if you tried to use attack-move, stop, or hold position when you were ready to fire. There were other similar examples.
And the question Artosis was asking is whether equal differences between different commands exist in Starcraft 2.
Personally, I don't think they do, but it may prove that one offers a slight difference.
But a good analysis of mineral line harass regardless!
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Canada13431 Posts
On May 17 2011 14:08 yomi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2011 02:21 ZeromuS wrote:On May 17 2011 02:08 ComaDose wrote:
I also believe he was referencing the time it takes to attack the first time. (split second)
Such as vultures fire more rapidly and slow down less when using patrol micro. Ah yes this too but I believe this doesnt change due to the need to see the whole attack animation and also the speed decrease before speed increase being coded into the game better than it was in BW well that is what he wanted to be sure of I think
Yeah me too though someone posted here a little while ago about target acquisition speed. Perhaps one of the patrol, hold position and attack move commands minimizes something like overkill when a unit has a ranged projectile based attack? That would be amazing to learn that they do or dont :p I cant test now but someone who is awake and reads this and has time it would be cool to know if this is the case at all
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On May 17 2011 11:52 Meatt wrote:
wouldn't the differences be considered a bug? i never played broodwar, but this sounds like it's an unintended advantage for those that have the knowledge+skill.
uhhh.. isnt that like.. what the whole game is about?
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EPT
