EPTthis guide is the best... lol in your replays i've seen previously, i had thought you did a ten pool with 6 zerglings...so it's a 9 pool awesome stuff man
i'll check the replays in closer detail later (i fast fwded at x8 for most)
[G] 9 pool opening ZvP. Zergling/baneling/Infest - Page 11
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IzieBoy
United States865 Posts
this guide is the best... lol in your replays i've seen previously, i had thought you did a ten pool with 6 zerglings...so it's a 9 pool awesome stuff man i'll check the replays in closer detail later (i fast fwded at x8 for most) | ||
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Theldiot
United States21 Posts
What is the point of doing 9 pool as opposed to 10 pool? There doesn't seem to be an important timing window that makes the earlier zerglings worth it. Besides, I have found a way to eek out 1/2 larva out of the regular 10 pool with an extractor trick. A 10 pool ET (built at 1:12) would yield 2 more drones at the cost of delaying 6 zerglings by ~8 seconds. Worth it? - i think not! 10 Pool ET Build: 10 pool, drone, OV, Extractor trick-drone, drone; 6 zerglings (3rd larva spawns about 1 second after SP finishes); Queen. At this point you can do exactly what aXa suggests, except you will be ahead by 2 drones. Personally, I prefer building a hatchery at 18/18 (before OV) and then power drones while the 6 zerglings deny all scouting and keep protoss to 1 base. I have done thorough economic testing of the 10 pool ET build (See replays in the link). Just a taste: 10 pool ET is (only) 100 minerals behind 14 pool at 5:00, but gets 3 larva for it. aXa, please explain what crucial advantage the 9 pool gives you when compared to 10 pool. Additionally, I would like to invite you to try out the 10 pool ET build - i think it would fit your play-style rather well. | ||
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Madkipz
Norway1643 Posts
aXa, please explain what crucial advantage the 9 pool gives you when compared to 10 pool. If i am not totally mistaken he mentions that the seconds you shave off gets you to their ramp before first zealot is out assuming they do a 12 gate. | ||
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aXa
France748 Posts
I just played against a 2 gate vs my 9 pool, and i managed to win quite easily btw. Are your guys interested by the replay? | ||
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Melange
United States39 Posts
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aXa
France748 Posts
Here are all the tips i know to deal with storm: -Bane drop. Losing bane to a storm can really be messy, drop solve the issue (BTW, templar are kinda slow and have the sad tendency to pack, so you can aim them with bane drop) -Attacking from different side. I try to keep my army separate i 2 or 3 group and attack from front, behind an sides -Avoiding fight, force the use of psi storm. The protoss will short be out of energy, and can't quite replenish their army with HT since KA has been removed. Even if your first wave of zergling die, you should overcome protoss army with the huge influx of zergling, remember that zergling are expandable (keeping high larvae production is key) -NP a templar and feedback the others. For PGM only :D -If you realize that you can't be a certain opponent because he uses HT too well, just switch to roaches (be sure there is no colossi any more) With burrow and burrow movement, you'll be fine. | ||
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Melange
United States39 Posts
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Xanbatou
United States805 Posts
Instead, I do your opening followed by a transition into roaches once my natural is being saturated. Then I get infestors, and then once I get close to max, I get banelings. I feel like this works better for me because it's much less fragile. | ||
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aXa
France748 Posts
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Keilah
731 Posts
I don't like how he speaks like the 9pool will always do some nice damage. It's simply not true, I mean even his own replays he says 'very little' or 'no' damage in a couple of the games. 12gate->chrono zealot->core the zealot pops out just in time on most maps, map & spawn dependent. If he makes 13 gate the lings will get in if the wall isn't sealed. However as one poster suggested, an excellent response is to build a pylon to stall for the zealot, bring 3-5 probes to meet the zealot as it spawns, cancel the pylon, move out to chase away the pesky zerglings. The swarm of probes prevents easy runby the moment you cancel pylon, and you can leave 1 probe on 'hold' in the wall gap to block runby after that. It takes a few seconds for 1 ling to kill that probe, plenty of time for your zealot + probes to eliminate the threat. | ||
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Allred
United States352 Posts
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aXa
France748 Posts
Archon are definitely better than colossi against this strat that's why i have to switch hydra a bit. | ||
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Keilah
731 Posts
On May 21 2011 08:33 aXa wrote: When i see DT or Archon, i immediatly drop a hydra den and start to produce them. I use it to snipe archon, and then go back for my regular army compo. Later in the game, i use NP mainly. Archon are definitely better than colossi against this strat that's why i have to switch hydra a bit. Sounds reasonable Protoss players - bank 600-900 gas, make 2-3 archons as soon as archives completes, and attaaaaaaaaaaaaacccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkk! Don't allow him time to respond! | ||
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Flavalanche
United States164 Posts
ZvP was my worst matchup before this, now it's arguably my best. <3 | ||
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aXa
France748 Posts
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Theldiot
United States21 Posts
On May 19 2011 07:00 aXa wrote: Right, 9 pool allow you to go inside his base, or force a building wall, because the zealot is not in time. A 10 pool is just a waste because there is no way your zergling can come in. A 10 pool is just as likely to 'force' protoss to build a wall. (Or do you really expect the protoss to differentiate between a 9 pool and a 10 pool, which are 6 seconds apart?!) Also, if the opponent plays "standard," zerglings can get in (but won't be able to finish the pylon before zealot is done). Just look at your own replays and imagine that your zerglings run up enemy ramp 6 seconds later and you have 2 extra drones mining - because that is what 10 pool ET will do. In 6 seconds i highly doubt that you'll be able to make enough damage to be worth 2 drones. Besides, in some of your replays you were not able to do much damage anyway. I've looked at your 9 pool ZvZ thread as well, and again saw no justification for going 9 pool as opposed to 10 pool. Then i found this: On May 18 2011 02:14 aXa wrote: I wanted to say: Against protoss, the main point is not 9 pool, nor infestor, nor baneling. It is upgraded zergling. That's really what I'm getting out of these 2 threads: an effective follow-up after early 6 zerglings. In this sense it is extremely useful to me. However, I prefer having 2 extra drones to speeding up the progression by ~6 seconds. | ||
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aXa
France748 Posts
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friendo
46 Posts
Edit to add: I mean as a standard opener, should I always delay my probe boost so I can get the 12 gate? Or are 13/14 gates safe and I just haven't been able to play it right? | ||
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Flavalanche
United States164 Posts
On May 21 2011 08:33 aXa wrote: When i see DT or Archon, i immediatly drop a hydra den and start to produce them. I use it to snipe archon, and then go back for my regular army compo. Later in the game, i use NP mainly. Archon are definitely better than colossi against this strat that's why i have to switch hydra a bit. In my matches I've found transitioning to broods (after hydras) is much better than ultras if toss builds archons, since FF just limits protoss due to the range of the broods, then if toss blinks out to kill the broods, you easily take out his stalkers with your hydra ling. | ||
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Philymaniz
United States177 Posts
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