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Mastermind
Canada7096 Posts
On April 08 2011 16:25 Numy wrote: Your thread is quite amazing. Reading amazing threads should always be a must. They should have a quiz based on that thread that you must get 100% on before you are allowed to post in the strategy forum. | ||
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Eleaven
772 Posts
On April 08 2011 17:23 Mastermind wrote: They should have a quiz based on that thread that you must get 100% on before you are allowed to post in the strategy forum. I second this. 100% pass rate should be the only way your allowed to even create threads here. minimum of 20 questions. | ||
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BrahCJ
Australia659 Posts
As a terrible terrible player, it doesn't "suit" me though. This being said, I've not once created a thread at TL simply because there is already so much to learn just by reading. That being said, it would be a little bit sad if it became an "elitist only" discussion. After all, nubs still pay players for lessons, still buy tickets for GomTV, or the MLGs etc. The nubs (majority) are needed simply to just make up numbers and I don't want them to become alienated. Would like to restate though, I respect the changes, and they won't really effect me. | ||
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MadNote
Lesotho75 Posts
On April 08 2011 16:03 VIB wrote: Wow.... best rule on any forum I've ever been to ever! Any of these games should definitely be streamed and casted. Just something that needs to happen. Or a replay pack in the Liquid Weekly. Top 10 worst strategies demolished by Saracen. Something. I just really want to see those games. Maybe BiggerT can cast them? | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
If your thread is about a new strategy and you do not have a damn good analysis (with replays) (i.e. I think your thread is too theorycrafty), you can play against me in a BO3 with your strategy. If you lose, you will be BANNED. This had me laughing for a good couple of minutes. But I have to admit, the OP is quite scary. Guess I have to put in a little more effort before I dare to post my PvZ 3 gate expo stargate guide  | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
Let's be constructive about the game w/o denigrate people. The starcraft community has a good reputation, don't throw it away.with elitism. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
On April 08 2011 18:37 Noocta wrote: I just hope TeamLiquid don't end up being an too elitist forum like Arena Junkies is for WoW. A "Only masters" forum would be terrible. Let's be constructive about the game w/o denigrate people. The starcraft community has a good reputation, don't throw it away.with elitism. Arena Junkies actually is one of the forums who went from elitist to a dump because of the influx of new players from WOTLK, I sincerly hope that the same does not happen to TL with the massive influx of SC2 players, and therefore I see this as a step in the right direction. Note: I am neither calling WOTLK nor SC2 players annoying, rather that a massive amount of people came with these 2 games and among them a loud minority. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
If I watch your replay and there are obvious flaws (macro, micro, etc.) in your game that contribute to your loss, you will be BANNED (Hint: read the Analyzing Replays thread and the How to Improve thread). Why? Because if you care enough about your gameplay to clutter up the Strategy Forum with another [H] thread, then you care enough to spend time by yourself to actually improve. It is true that you can be totally self sufficient when trying to improve but being helped through the process makes it A LOT easier, sometimes correct decisions and the best responses just aren't obvious to you, just being told a few specific points during the game what you should have been doing helps, generally when people make these kinds of threads they aren't completely sure with themselves and being told "no, if you actually did work on your macro a little more that would have been a LOT easier " gives them focus It is the same reason why coaching is so successful, I bet most Protoss players here have seen the iNcontroL coaching vods, just sitting down with a pro player and talking out/being told what was going wrong and what you should have been doing helps tremendously. If you watch Miniguns stream and his coaching, the vast majority of problems players have is macro (well below Masters), at the end of the sessions they rarely every improve as players but one thing is for sure, at the end they have a clear idea of what they should be working on, even if that was what they were thinking before going in to the session, but at least now they are sure with themselves. Maybe the Strategy forum isn't the most appropriate place for that type of discussion, but TeamLiquid is such a large community with a lot of players that are willing to spend some of their time to help people, it would be a shame to completely rid the community of being able to do so. The idea of having a separate sub forum sounds like the best option, you could have it's own rule set, maybe something like having to post at least 2 paragraphs on what you did wrong in the game you are posting and what you think you could have done better, to make sure people have watched over their own replays at least once---a rule like will most likely get rid of all the useless help threads, no one is going to create a post if after going through their replay their notes to create the thread end up being painfully obvious mistakes. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On April 08 2011 18:37 Noocta wrote: I just hope TeamLiquid don't end up being an too elitist forum like Arena Junkies is for WoW. A "Only masters" forum would be terrible. Let's be constructive about the game w/o denigrate people. The starcraft community has a good reputation, don't throw it away.with elitism. It isn't elitism, there's no rule that only Master level players may post. People just need to get over the idea that because it's the internet, they can post like crap. The Strategy section of the SC2 forums isn't supposed to be a casual conversational area, it's supposed to give players of all skill levels the tools to improve. Unfortunately without strict rules, that just isn't working out; 90% of posts are either unhelpful, plain wrong or some kind of snide balance oneliner (you ahve scan lol), which kind of defeats the purpose of discussing strategy (how is a lower level playing going to filter out the crap?). And since people on the internet are generally allergic to admitting they're wrong, no-one ever learns anything. A stricter ruleset might seem harsh, but it's pretty much the only way to discourage people who have nothing useful to say or don't want to put in the effort. If you visit these forums to just have some lighthearted fun, that's great, but you'll have to find the threads where it's appropriate, and that's NOT in the Strategy section. If you put effort and thought into your posting and can accept advice from better players than you, you're going to be absolutely fine! It's not about being the best or most knowledgeable person in the Srategy forums, it's about not interfering with it's intended purpose of being educational and positively adding to that if you can  | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
I have noticed frequently there is a "not enough rights" for post updating issue; which I can only assume makes pruning the garbage from posts/replies more difficult for OPs. I know the simple response is to be more careful with your responses so your rights are no issue, but is this going to be taken into consideration at all? Also, the unfortunate truth is that some lower level players are not able to analyze their games at the level you have asked. Without the help of better players, they will never get better. I have read the how to improve thread, and believe with my diamond league understanding I can take what is posted there and put it to good use. Unfortunately, I know several players who need more specific help, more than just 'my micro/macro sucks.' The how to get better post teaches you how and why to improve macro and micro, but for some people (myself included) my macro issues are matchup specific- yet I do not feel I have enough of an understanding to make a post under the guidelines you have laid out. + Show Spoiler + I am quite confident I am not the only person with this issue. How would you suggest we go about it? | ||
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Saracen
United States5139 Posts
On April 08 2011 19:34 Durp wrote: Saracen, I have noticed frequently there is a "not enough rights" for post updating issue; which I can only assume makes pruning the garbage from posts/replies more difficult for OPs. I know the simple response is to be more careful with your responses so your rights are no issue, but is this going to be taken into consideration at all? Also, the unfortunate truth is that some lower level players are not able to analyze their games at the level you have asked. Without the help of better players, they will never get better. I have read the how to improve thread, and believe with my diamond league understanding I can take what is posted there and put it to good use. Unfortunately, I know several players who need more specific help, more than just 'my micro/macro sucks.' The how to get better post teaches you how and why to improve macro and micro, but for some people (myself included) my macro issues are matchup specific- yet I do not feel I have enough of an understanding to make a post under the guidelines you have laid out. + Show Spoiler + I am quite confident I am not the only person with this issue. How would you suggest we go about it? You didn't have enough rights because I closed the thread you were going to edit your post in. About help threads, here's a response to a PM I sent a while back: If you really want help, you'd better be willing to put the effort to analyze it yourself first. If you've done this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195389 and still don't know what's wrong, then by all means post your analysis and ask for help. We want people in this community to be self-sufficient. Asking for help should be a last resort, and finding your own mistakes is key to becoming a better player. It takes quite a bit of effort to help someone who has posted a replay. So the person who's posted the replay better have put in at least that much effort as well.If you don't feel confident enough that your advice is correct to post it, then don't. If you know your advice is correct and good, then you should have no qualms about posting it, regardless of any warnings I have in the OP. | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On April 08 2011 19:47 Saracen wrote: It takes quite a bit of effort to help someone who has posted a replay. So the person who's posted the replay better have put in at least that much effort as well. This deserves an exclamation mark. On the one hand, there are way to many people posting "I didn't see the rep, BUT...." - which must be annoying as hell for the OP and even makes me mad when reading it. Therefore posts like these do indeed deserve at least a warning. If the OP posts a rep you better watch it or don't post at all. On the other hand, IF we/you are thorough on moderating the replies to these threads, this also means that the OP better present a problem that is worth watching the replay. I certainly don't want to watch, say, a toss player get stomped by mass MMM just because he was like a full mining base behind with nothing else to it. | ||
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Daniel C
Hong Kong1606 Posts
I know that I've made help threads as a diamond nub that may be closed by today's standard since my macro wasn't perfect. But I also received some other great advice besides 'macro' that helped make me the masters player I am now. Trust me, I was reading the threads, watching vods, but there are so just so many little things that would take a nub countless games to figure out but would take a better player just a second to point out. So I think there should be a more casual forum where nubs can ask for help as well as for legitimate threads that don't fit the strat guidelines. For example, some people may want to throw out a Bo or an idea to ask for input e.g. 'best way to execute marine hellion drop' without writing a full fledged guide on the subject. Also, some help threads do not need replays. As is, we stand to lose a lot of interaction that could be beneficial to lower players. It's like saying 'here's a medical textbook, a how to guide and 20 episodes of greys anatomy. Now go and operate on a patient but don't ask for help until you have all the correct mechanics.' There's a reason why coaching is so valued. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43733 Posts
And you playing best of threes against people who *think* they have a revolutionary new build... Will there be VODs? Who will be casting?  It almost makes me want to just click on every thread from now on, just to see if there's red in the OP. And if there's not, then it might be worth my time to read through, since I could very well learn something helpful | ||
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Retgery
Canada1229 Posts
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RevaLution
Singapore68 Posts
Will shifting them to a "closing" section be better? if the OP makes no effort to edit it in 1 day then the thread would be closed. This way, it allows people that want to help the poster to post some advices, and also allows the thread opener to edit and attempt to make their thread more useful | ||
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enykie
Germany64 Posts
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lurked
Canada918 Posts
Maybe this isn't the most useful post to do in a Strategy Forum thread, but I had to say it. Like I posted in the 'Purge' thread : On April 08 2011 20:32 lurked wrote: So often I'm dreaming about a useful Strategy Forums, but everyday when I wake up, I go on TeamLiquid and notice the same kind of atrocities. If this purge is to work and turns the brothel of posts spamming it actually is, into a quality Strategy Forum, at least one of my dream will be fulfilled. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On April 08 2011 17:23 Mastermind wrote: They should have a quiz based on that thread that you must get 100% on before you are allowed to post in the strategy forum. I actually like this. Just make a random question generator that sucks like 10 questions form a giant pool of questions based on the FAQ. Make it multiple choice. What must I post if I want help: a)A description of the problem b)A replay c)My analysis d)All of the above Except harder. | ||
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
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