|
On October 03 2011 11:06 Joey Wheeler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 10:59 BleaK_ wrote:On October 03 2011 10:50 Joey Wheeler wrote:
All of this is really obvious. If you didn't know stuff like this already you shouldn't be trying to get good at SC2 in the first place, since the game is 100% about decision making on the fly. Um, no it's not. ok so the entire guide is pick a build that suits you refine your build by watching replays don't do bad engagements the rest is about how as you play more your macro and micro gets better. this guide says nothing about the things that actually truly matter, but it's good for getting out of platinum league or something.
Go read the you suck portion, because you probably suck. It's in there for people like you.
|
On October 03 2011 11:06 Joey Wheeler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 10:59 BleaK_ wrote:On October 03 2011 10:50 Joey Wheeler wrote:
All of this is really obvious. If you didn't know stuff like this already you shouldn't be trying to get good at SC2 in the first place, since the game is 100% about decision making on the fly. Um, no it's not. ok so the entire guide is pick a build that suits you refine your build by watching replays don't do bad engagements the rest is about how as you play more your macro and micro gets better. this guide says nothing about the things that actually truly matter, but it's good for getting out of platinum league or something.
You must be even worse at SC2 than you are at Yugioh. At the pro level, any time you have to think at all on the fly means you failed your practice somewhere.
|
On October 03 2011 11:06 Joey Wheeler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 10:59 BleaK_ wrote:On October 03 2011 10:50 Joey Wheeler wrote:
All of this is really obvious. If you didn't know stuff like this already you shouldn't be trying to get good at SC2 in the first place, since the game is 100% about decision making on the fly. Um, no it's not. ok so the entire guide is pick a build that suits you refine your build by watching replays don't do bad engagements the rest is about how as you play more your macro and micro gets better. this guide says nothing about the things that actually truly matter, but it's good for getting out of platinum league or something.
Hmm, so by saying this, I assume you must be really good at SCII. So you must be in at grand master league right? On top of that, you stated "things that truly matter?" If all this is so obvious to you, then please illuminate us. What truly matters?
|
On October 03 2011 11:16 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 11:06 Joey Wheeler wrote:On October 03 2011 10:59 BleaK_ wrote:On October 03 2011 10:50 Joey Wheeler wrote:
All of this is really obvious. If you didn't know stuff like this already you shouldn't be trying to get good at SC2 in the first place, since the game is 100% about decision making on the fly. Um, no it's not. ok so the entire guide is pick a build that suits you refine your build by watching replays don't do bad engagements the rest is about how as you play more your macro and micro gets better. this guide says nothing about the things that actually truly matter, but it's good for getting out of platinum league or something. You must be even worse at SC2 than you are at Yugioh. At the pro level, any time you have to think at all on the fly means you failed your practice somewhere.
Decision making on the fly was a bad way to term it, I should have just said decision making, but I don't think anyone knows every single build ever created. Decision making on the fly is practically what crisis management is.
That said, crisis management is an example of something this guide doesn't cover. Getting good mechanics is a very simple concept, and 90% of this guide focuses exactly on that. But what about everything else? What about responding to something correctly? What about the planning ahead that pros do, like if you see a pro getting attacked and start droning before he's even killed the pylon. What about understanding exactly what is the risk in doing a certain decision. Things like this are what truly matters.
Most GM players you will find not to be very impressive. However, they succeed simply by knowing what to do. This is what this guide does not cover. The section about engaging is similar to what I mean, but you can really extend this guide to beyond something that will only get you to low masters.
|
On October 03 2011 11:28 Joey Wheeler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 11:16 iamke55 wrote:On October 03 2011 11:06 Joey Wheeler wrote:On October 03 2011 10:59 BleaK_ wrote:On October 03 2011 10:50 Joey Wheeler wrote:
All of this is really obvious. If you didn't know stuff like this already you shouldn't be trying to get good at SC2 in the first place, since the game is 100% about decision making on the fly. Um, no it's not. ok so the entire guide is pick a build that suits you refine your build by watching replays don't do bad engagements the rest is about how as you play more your macro and micro gets better. this guide says nothing about the things that actually truly matter, but it's good for getting out of platinum league or something. You must be even worse at SC2 than you are at Yugioh. At the pro level, any time you have to think at all on the fly means you failed your practice somewhere. Decision making on the fly was a bad way to term it, I should have just said decision making, but I don't think anyone knows every single build ever created. Decision making on the fly is practically what crisis management is. That said, crisis management is an example of something this guide doesn't cover. Getting good mechanics is a very simple concept, and 90% of this guide focuses exactly on that. But what about everything else? What about responding to something correctly? What about the planning ahead that pros do, like if you see a pro getting attacked and start droning before he's even killed the pylon. What about understanding exactly what is the risk in doing a certain decision. Things like this are what truly matters. Most GM players you will find not to be very impressive. However, they succeed simply by knowing what to do. This is what this guide does not cover. The section about engaging is similar to what I mean, but you can really extend this guide to beyond something that will only get you to low masters.
Maybe if you didn't simply skim the guide you'd realize how your point is pointless.
|
On October 03 2011 11:38 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 11:28 Joey Wheeler wrote:On October 03 2011 11:16 iamke55 wrote:On October 03 2011 11:06 Joey Wheeler wrote:On October 03 2011 10:59 BleaK_ wrote:On October 03 2011 10:50 Joey Wheeler wrote:
All of this is really obvious. If you didn't know stuff like this already you shouldn't be trying to get good at SC2 in the first place, since the game is 100% about decision making on the fly. Um, no it's not. ok so the entire guide is pick a build that suits you refine your build by watching replays don't do bad engagements the rest is about how as you play more your macro and micro gets better. this guide says nothing about the things that actually truly matter, but it's good for getting out of platinum league or something. You must be even worse at SC2 than you are at Yugioh. At the pro level, any time you have to think at all on the fly means you failed your practice somewhere. Decision making on the fly was a bad way to term it, I should have just said decision making, but I don't think anyone knows every single build ever created. Decision making on the fly is practically what crisis management is. That said, crisis management is an example of something this guide doesn't cover. Getting good mechanics is a very simple concept, and 90% of this guide focuses exactly on that. But what about everything else? What about responding to something correctly? What about the planning ahead that pros do, like if you see a pro getting attacked and start droning before he's even killed the pylon. What about understanding exactly what is the risk in doing a certain decision. Things like this are what truly matters. Most GM players you will find not to be very impressive. However, they succeed simply by knowing what to do. This is what this guide does not cover. The section about engaging is similar to what I mean, but you can really extend this guide to beyond something that will only get you to low masters. Maybe if you didn't simply skim the guide you'd realize how your point is pointless.
I'm sorry I am offending you by offering constructive criticism, but I'm simply saying you should extend the most important section by far past a few paragraphs.
|
On October 03 2011 11:40 Joey Wheeler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 11:38 CecilSunkure wrote:On October 03 2011 11:28 Joey Wheeler wrote:On October 03 2011 11:16 iamke55 wrote:On October 03 2011 11:06 Joey Wheeler wrote:On October 03 2011 10:59 BleaK_ wrote:On October 03 2011 10:50 Joey Wheeler wrote:
All of this is really obvious. If you didn't know stuff like this already you shouldn't be trying to get good at SC2 in the first place, since the game is 100% about decision making on the fly. Um, no it's not. ok so the entire guide is pick a build that suits you refine your build by watching replays don't do bad engagements the rest is about how as you play more your macro and micro gets better. this guide says nothing about the things that actually truly matter, but it's good for getting out of platinum league or something. You must be even worse at SC2 than you are at Yugioh. At the pro level, any time you have to think at all on the fly means you failed your practice somewhere. Decision making on the fly was a bad way to term it, I should have just said decision making, but I don't think anyone knows every single build ever created. Decision making on the fly is practically what crisis management is. That said, crisis management is an example of something this guide doesn't cover. Getting good mechanics is a very simple concept, and 90% of this guide focuses exactly on that. But what about everything else? What about responding to something correctly? What about the planning ahead that pros do, like if you see a pro getting attacked and start droning before he's even killed the pylon. What about understanding exactly what is the risk in doing a certain decision. Things like this are what truly matters. Most GM players you will find not to be very impressive. However, they succeed simply by knowing what to do. This is what this guide does not cover. The section about engaging is similar to what I mean, but you can really extend this guide to beyond something that will only get you to low masters. Maybe if you didn't simply skim the guide you'd realize how your point is pointless. I'm sorry I am offending you by offering constructive criticism, but I'm simply saying you should extend the most important section by far past a few paragraphs.
And I'm just saying go read the guide before offering criticism. I know you didn't read it properly by what you've said.
|
On October 03 2011 11:28 Joey Wheeler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 11:16 iamke55 wrote:On October 03 2011 11:06 Joey Wheeler wrote:On October 03 2011 10:59 BleaK_ wrote:On October 03 2011 10:50 Joey Wheeler wrote:
All of this is really obvious. If you didn't know stuff like this already you shouldn't be trying to get good at SC2 in the first place, since the game is 100% about decision making on the fly. Um, no it's not. ok so the entire guide is pick a build that suits you refine your build by watching replays don't do bad engagements the rest is about how as you play more your macro and micro gets better. this guide says nothing about the things that actually truly matter, but it's good for getting out of platinum league or something. You must be even worse at SC2 than you are at Yugioh. At the pro level, any time you have to think at all on the fly means you failed your practice somewhere. Decision making on the fly was a bad way to term it, I should have just said decision making, but I don't think anyone knows every single build ever created. Decision making on the fly is practically what crisis management is. That said, crisis management is an example of something this guide doesn't cover. Getting good mechanics is a very simple concept, and 90% of this guide focuses exactly on that. But what about everything else? What about responding to something correctly? What about the planning ahead that pros do, like if you see a pro getting attacked and start droning before he's even killed the pylon. What about understanding exactly what is the risk in doing a certain decision. Things like this are what truly matters. Most GM players you will find not to be very impressive. However, they succeed simply by knowing what to do. This is what this guide does not cover. The section about engaging is similar to what I mean, but you can really extend this guide to beyond something that will only get you to low masters.
So how do you plan on improving your ability to manage crises better? You can't write a guide on how to just make better decisions, because anything done on the fly like that is just dumb luck. When MC holds a baneling bust, it's not because he has some magical ability to automatically figure out what to do on the spot; it's because he has played many games against the baneling bust and is simply remembering what he did to beat those in practice. If you can figure out a way to get better at responding correctly or planning ahead with just practicing those situations over and over, then feel free to tell us how you do it or write your own guide.
|
On October 03 2011 11:16 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 11:06 Joey Wheeler wrote:On October 03 2011 10:59 BleaK_ wrote:On October 03 2011 10:50 Joey Wheeler wrote:
All of this is really obvious. If you didn't know stuff like this already you shouldn't be trying to get good at SC2 in the first place, since the game is 100% about decision making on the fly. Um, no it's not. ok so the entire guide is pick a build that suits you refine your build by watching replays don't do bad engagements the rest is about how as you play more your macro and micro gets better. this guide says nothing about the things that actually truly matter, but it's good for getting out of platinum league or something. You must be even worse at SC2 than you are at Yugioh. At the pro level, any time you have to think at all on the fly means you failed your practice somewhere.
Pretty much hit the nail on the head.At the highest level of play you want to respond to shit instantly. You want to see it and know exactly what to do. No thinking involved.
Also, to the person some posts above me saying this guide is for getting above plat.
You obviously never played GM players. lol 
they aren't that impressive = /
|
On October 03 2011 14:56 VPCursed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 11:16 iamke55 wrote:On October 03 2011 11:06 Joey Wheeler wrote:On October 03 2011 10:59 BleaK_ wrote:On October 03 2011 10:50 Joey Wheeler wrote:
All of this is really obvious. If you didn't know stuff like this already you shouldn't be trying to get good at SC2 in the first place, since the game is 100% about decision making on the fly. Um, no it's not. ok so the entire guide is pick a build that suits you refine your build by watching replays don't do bad engagements the rest is about how as you play more your macro and micro gets better. this guide says nothing about the things that actually truly matter, but it's good for getting out of platinum league or something. You must be even worse at SC2 than you are at Yugioh. At the pro level, any time you have to think at all on the fly means you failed your practice somewhere. You obviously never played GM players. lol they aren't that impressive = /
Yeah, makes me happy beating them, I remember when I wasn't any good...
|
Some really really good advice in here. Thanks for the guide, I'm sure it'll prove very helpful given that over the last few weeks I've made a concentrated effort to actually get better rather than just aiming to beat the opponent in front of me (if you get what I mean by that).
On a side note. I used to suffer from this heavily:
On September 06 2011 02:53 TCP wrote:
I hate feelings...
every time I lose due to a stupid mistake I feel like I'm the worst player and that I'm too bad for this game. Although I "know" its just a stupid feeling, It takes a whole 20 min to get rid of it. This way its quite hard to queue up game after game.
Greate guide nevertheless.
So I thought I'd comment on what broke me of that problem.
Its as simple as I this: I started to enforce a break after literally every single game I play, if only a couple minutes, to reflect on the game. If I win I take up to five minutes to come down from the emotional "high" and relax a little to concentrate on the next game, usually whilst checking a couple of key points in the replay that I wanted to look at again. If I don't quite know how I've won I'll take time out to briefly review the entire replay and try to figure it out (for example: one game I won recently I had literally no idea how I won because I lost tons of stuff; analysing the replay I found that despite losing way more units, tons of probes and even losing some buildings to harrass I had better macro so I could afford my losses, but he couldn't afford to stop my counter-attack). If I lose (rather rare lately; promotion beckons I think) then I'll sit down, take a longer break and work out how I lost by carefully analysing the entire replay bit by bit.
The worst thing when learning, I've found, is to get annoyed at a loss and just queue up another game immediately because you'll be in a bad mindset going into it and are less likely to win or even to play a good game. I was on a winning streak of five or six games over a couple of nights a few weeks ago (didn't have much time to play). Then I suddenly had more free time so I sat down to play a solid run, lost the first game and felt really annoyed at ruining my streak. So then I just queued up game after game until I ended up on a solid run of losses with each loss getting worse. Now that I force myself to take breaks and analyse my play it really breaks that up. Actually seeing where things have gone wrong through the replay I find actually helps my mindset because I think "that was stupid, I won't make that mistake again now I know what it is" and now I rarely lose more than maybe two games in a row.
I actually started this off by deciding that if I got a loss I'd stop playing, analyse the replay to find out where I'd lost and then literally not play any more Starcraft 2 that night. Instead I'd spend the time I was going to play reading up on how to correct the mistakes I'd made. Proved to be quite a valuable learning experience.
Not recommending this as any kind of hard-and-fast philosophy but it worked/works for me.
|
Definitely a great guide.
The funny thing I find is the guide is more about examining your own ability to learn and grow and how to apply SC mechanics, information, and knowledge to your own ability to learn.
Reminds me very much of Josh Waitzkin's (Chess master, tai chi master, etc) "The Art of Learning" along with Chessmaster's "The Art of Learning Edition". Both have Waitzkin examining more of your ability to teach yourself to learn and and then abstract any activity in such a way that you can put it through your own black box learning process to master it rather than specific strategies and tactics.
Not sure where people are finding the "just learn the build order and practice it from". I derived far more.
My 2¢, thanks Cecil
- gMix, ePhryg,etc.
|
Sad face It wont let me open the guide when I download it 
|
o.o can i just ask why the guide is now a PDF? Not that it's bad or anything. I just don't see a reason to xD
|
Hey Cecil, I just wanted to comment to tell you thanks. This, and a bunch of your other works, have helped me so much. I am very grateful for your contributions to the community. With assistance from you and some from other people on the Team Liquid forums I have sky rocketed from silver to platinum within around 3 months. Thank you again.
|
On October 03 2011 11:28 Joey Wheeler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 11:16 iamke55 wrote:On October 03 2011 11:06 Joey Wheeler wrote:On October 03 2011 10:59 BleaK_ wrote:On October 03 2011 10:50 Joey Wheeler wrote:
All of this is really obvious. If you didn't know stuff like this already you shouldn't be trying to get good at SC2 in the first place, since the game is 100% about decision making on the fly. Um, no it's not. ok so the entire guide is pick a build that suits you refine your build by watching replays don't do bad engagements the rest is about how as you play more your macro and micro gets better. this guide says nothing about the things that actually truly matter, but it's good for getting out of platinum league or something. You must be even worse at SC2 than you are at Yugioh. At the pro level, any time you have to think at all on the fly means you failed your practice somewhere. Decision making on the fly was a bad way to term it, I should have just said decision making, but I don't think anyone knows every single build ever created. Decision making on the fly is practically what crisis management is. That said, crisis management is an example of something this guide doesn't cover. Getting good mechanics is a very simple concept, and 90% of this guide focuses exactly on that. But what about everything else? What about responding to something correctly? What about the planning ahead that pros do, like if you see a pro getting attacked and start droning before he's even killed the pylon. What about understanding exactly what is the risk in doing a certain decision. Things like this are what truly matters. Most GM players you will find not to be very impressive. However, they succeed simply by knowing what to do. This is what this guide does not cover. The section about engaging is similar to what I mean, but you can really extend this guide to beyond something that will only get you to low masters.
In my opinion knowing how to deal with a "Crisis" or "Crisis Management" comes from experience and analyzing the games that you play. As stated in the guide "learning on your own is 10 times more powerful then having someone show you" (paraphrased). Ultimately I am trying to say that how you react to an event will probably be governed by your experience of similar events prior to that or if it is a new experience learning from it. I am also stating that you playing matches and making a conscious effort to learn from your decisions will be of more use then any guide showing you how to do it.
|
Awesome read! Thanks for your time. The mentality "You suck" Should be relevant in everything. It makes you train harder, and do better work!
|
Can we get a non pdf version? I hate downloading that stuff...
|
|
|
The worst thing when learning, I've found, is to get annoyed at a loss and just queue up another game immediately because you'll be in a bad mindset going into it and are less likely to win or even to play a good game. I was on a winning streak of five or six games over a couple of nights a few weeks ago (didn't have much time to play). Then I suddenly had more free time so I sat down to play a solid run, lost the first game and felt really annoyed at ruining my streak. So then I just queued up game after game until I ended up on a solid run of losses with each loss getting worse. Now that I force myself to take breaks and analyse my play it really breaks that up. Actually seeing where things have gone wrong through the replay I find actually helps my mindset because I think "that was stupid, I won't make that mistake again now I know what it is" and now I rarely lose more than maybe two games in a row.
Well said, I used to have very long win streaks and then be suddenly ruined by a lose streak and getting stuck in that lose streak. This is actually what I believe to be the most important after playing a match, rest up, learn your mistakes and move on. It is a very intense and stressful game after all.
On November 07 2011 23:00 kushm4sta wrote:
Can we get a non pdf version? I hate downloading that stuff...
Then there's really no point of being on this thread, is there? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
