EPTTvT Ghost Build by SpunXtain - Page 3
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SpunXtain
Australia165 Posts
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Kingqway
United States155 Posts
I realize this build can also negate the 1-1-1 banshee rush, but I generally tend to go for the standard tank build for TvT. Do you just change output of the 3 rax into mmm? | ||
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SpunXtain
Australia165 Posts
On March 16 2011 17:49 Kingqway wrote: wow, the first replay was such a great display of the build. However, whats the reaction to a standard tank-viking-marine build? Of course, scouting plays a huge role in this MU, but the ghost build seems to rely on the fact that you're expecting your opponent to go along the lines of banshee hellion drops since you're getting the academy relatively early. I realize this build can also negate the 1-1-1 banshee rush, but I generally tend to go for the standard tank build for TvT. Do you just change output of the 3 rax into mmm? Basically if they go fast tanks that's probably the hardest build to counter with this, but its certainly not unbeatable. The guy is going to be using all his gas on siege tanks, which means he will be dumping minerals into marines which you can snipe off pretty well and then move in to clean up the undefended siege tanks with marauders. You're right, generally the transition is into MMM play with less siege tanks than normal, but you're going to have quite a lot of additional mobility and the threat of nukes/cloak harass/orbital emps is likely to keep him in his base a lot longer. The other advantage is that you're able to fast expand very well behind this build order, so if you can hold off his early tank advantage you're going to be in fantastic shape going into the mid-game, and you always have the option of using nukes to break his siege lines if they become problematic. The build does require some finesse and you're going to have to find ways to get more out of your units than you invested into them, but the fact that this build order hard counters most cheese/early pressure builds and still lets you expand early really makes it worth learning in my opinion. Personally, its become my stable build and I have just recently been promoted to Masters thanks to it =] | ||
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gejfsyd
Poland156 Posts
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GinDo
3327 Posts
Consider just adding ghosts once you expand as an alternative. Because whats the point of getting a ghost that early if your not gonna use it then. | ||
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SecretA5DC
Korea (South)225 Posts
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
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stormchaser
Canada1009 Posts
 Nice build, very interesting to see terran players implement ghosts in TvT as they are much more common in TvP than any other matchup.Very cool stuff. | ||
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Phibonnachee
Canada5 Posts
On March 17 2011 00:43 Pokebunny wrote: Eh.. this is only good against like 1rax fe (even then you have to attack before bunker gets up) or iechoic, both of which are fairly uncommon. Echoic's build is not enough of a stable standard style to warrant a specific counter. I guess it would be ok against straight cloak banshee too but I think raven would be better vs that. This is not a build to specifically counter iechoic. Ghost can actually be used in conjunction with marines for a fairly effective timing attack. Well at least against anything other than tanks -.-. If you really wanted, mass reapers are an effective blind counter to iechoic, but this is just a normal counter. Thing is, it is still effective timing push in the event that they dont go iechoic, unlike mass reapers. | ||
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mechavoc
United States664 Posts
Ghosts are expensive units and making them gives up on alot of tech. | ||
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SpunXtain
Australia165 Posts
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MrTopHat
Canada11 Posts
Nuke range is far enough that you can drop one about 3 range from his closest tank, forcing him to unsiege, at which point obviously you can just cancel and stim in, sniping his marines with the ghost. From there you can clear out his tanks and go siege tech as well to match. Tanks+nukes makes for some interesting siege pushes. Ghosts make great emergency detectors vs cloaked banshees as well! Just watch your macro, heh. | ||
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Selkie
United States530 Posts
Furthermore, with the iechoic build, the simple presence of banshees forces detection- you don't need to actually get cloak. You're also using marines are your mineral dump- marines are hellion bait. Ghosts against zerg however... | ||
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MrTopHat
Canada11 Posts
On March 18 2011 14:33 Selkie wrote: I've been playing the iechoic build a LOT (ever since it wrecked me on the ladder and I looked it up)- I've toyed with the idea of ghosts as a counter, tried it, and it didn't work very well. In essence, when I tried to go ghosts against my friend who was iechoic, he just went and #$% killed me. Ditto when we swapped. Part of the proper iechoic build is ravens (since it gives a ridiculous amount of scouting, I'll see the ghosts very quickly), and the raven, while light, won't be sniped. In addition, you're playing terran like you play zerg- you don't want to engage their army, you want to dance around it. Ghosts are a good caster unit, and do what they do very well- they are not a straight up fighting unit. Yes, they have a bonus against hellions and ghosts, but they are MUCH MUCH more expensive than either. Furthermore, with the iechoic build, the simple presence of banshees forces detection- you don't need to actually get cloak. You're also using marines are your mineral dump- marines are hellion bait. Ghosts against zerg however... If your opponent realizes it's the iEchoic build, they can just produce a few cycles of marauders and get conc shell, while producing a handful of marines and keep your ghost production up. Marauders and ghosts are pretty much immune to hellion damage, and marauders slow em down for the ghosts to pick them off. The banshees get EMP'd and end up losing cloak until they can build up 25 energy again(this will be less effective after the patch nerfs EMP to 100 energy damage) and while ghosts aren't 1 for 1 cost effective vs banshees, they're not far off; marines just seal the deal. From there you can tech to thor/viking or something to take care of hellion/banshee/BC. Not to mention depending on your opening style with hellion/banshee, those that don't get a bunker up by around 21 supply will get killed if their opponent does a QXC-style ghost push. | ||
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SpunXtain
Australia165 Posts
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SpunXtain
Australia165 Posts
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