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Hi all,
Recently I've not been able to win any games against zerg. PvP and PvT I'm doing fine, but I just seem to be missing something on how to win PvZ. I've tried 3gate robo expand, and my army was crushed by a mix of ultralisks, hydralisks, mutalisks and zerglings (not a very viable ZvP build). I've tried 3gate FE builds, and I get mowed down by overwhelming roach/ling count. I've tried robo timing attack builds, and before I can get into his base there is a mass of roaches on my doorstep. Should I be going for faster tech units, like colossi? Right now my army composition for most matchups is 1:1 stalker/zealot, with immortals and sentries mixed in. I'm guessing the reason i'm getting roflstomped by big armies is not because of my strategy but my army composition. Would colossi help against fast roach/zling builds? Or should I try a stargate build? Tell me what you think. I will try put some replays up.
PS: Silver league
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Make 25 probes, 4 gates, and attack at random times.
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Three gate sentry expand is really strong. In PvZ, you need to remember that if you apply no pressure to the zerg, they're free to drone up and their production overpowers you.
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On February 20 2011 09:09 [NoiSe] wrote:
Three gate sentry expand is really strong. In PvZ, you need to remember that if you apply no pressure to the zerg, they're free to drone up and their production overpowers you.
And by pressure he means taking control of towers, sniping tumors that haven't burrowed and getting TFO if Zerg ends up countering your poking because if you lose all those sentries it is game over
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Ultralisk? heh no wonder ure losing. You cant let zerg get to ultras, ife he can afford this hes probably outmacroing You at least twice. Start with 3 gate expand, get decent amount of sentrys, colo/HT(or both, but collosuss or high templar is a MUST HAVE vs zerg) and voids, couple tanking zealots will be fine as well. and apply pressure all the time, dont let him expand, use observers to see his army, kill creep tumors, harass with pheonixes.
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Thanks for replies people, I'll try out some of these strats next time.
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Look up some of incontrols lessons that have been posted on the forums. 3Gate expand relies on a few specific things
1. Shark mode as incontrol calls it.. Harassing forcing units instead of drones but not engaging to the point of losing ur first 8 sentries
2. Slow build up of collosi off of 1 robo while u take a 3rd..your never completely open to attack bc you mass collosi slowly and safely while taking a 3rd and still building gate units off of 4 gates
3. Push with four collosi.. Your. +1/+1 should be about done and you can keep zerg from saturating a 4th and add gates to buffer ur ground force as necessary
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i think PvZ, Zergs while whining alot, learn pretty fast to react properly to Protoss Strategys
(Protoss imho is very limited, in the sence of doing "surprise" attacks, due to their rigid techpath.
Which comes down into a later state of the game which is favored by Zergs, also they can be pretty aggressive if they want to, to hit some sick timing pushes.
This makes this matchup imho very dynamic. Since both sides can be very aggressiv, but also very passiv macroorientaded.
What seems "standard" and pretty popular right now is the 3 Gate Sentry Expand Build for Protoss.
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forge fe, wall off with cannon. by the time he can tech to something that breaks your wall you can have the tech unit of your choice to crush him. vr, colossi, blink stalker, and dt drops if you scout no detection are all viable off of it. plus to go 2base protoss vs 2 base zerg gives you a huge advantage.
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On February 20 2011 09:05 haegN wrote:
Make 25 probes, 4 gates, and attack at random times.
Yep, this is a good strategy, you can also try this with 5 gates!
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yea as other have pointed out, sentries can be very important. especially late game, i've found, when facing ultralisks. if you have collossus with range upgrade and can split the zerg army, you can have a lot of success. it obviously prevents the ultralisks being able to pound you as a single unit ball -- you can either forcefield them away or split them up and deal damage that way. i rarely do not go for collossus against zerg. if he makes a ton of corrupters, make more stalkers. if there's ultras, make more immortals, etc. and forcefield him to take advantage of collossus range.
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also scout to see when zerg is expanding and follow suit, or attack him early if you can while he expands. but i find it better to take your second a little after him while warping in units and teching to collossus or whatever.
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3 gate sentry expand is really, really solid. I think the problem lies in the execution thereof. Check the liquipedia page for tips, and be sure your timing is smooth.
Lots of sentries and gateway units in general will win you tons of games against zerg. I rarely tech to colossi.
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You need to scout around the 5-7 minute mark for any signs of roaches or a roach warren. If you see roaches, you need to drop a robo bay asap and make immortals. Later, you probably will have to switch into colosus to help fight hydras.
If you see pure lings, you need a twilight council, and possibly a stargate for phoenix to counter the mutas.
Also keep in mind, if you note the zerg fast expanding (pool first or not), you have a pretty big window to expand as well.
If you're struggling against roach ling, a normal sentry-stalker-zealot composition should be ale to take care of it effectively with proper force fields in the early game (immortals would be a bonus).
Doing a stargate opener (doing a 4 phoenix harass while expanding) is very very micro intensive. You need to have a decent APM in order to manage harassing with phoenix (killing queens and overlords) while expanding and continuing to macro.
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Stargate 2 gate opening with 1 void is beastly good, get zealots and sentries, then once that vr pops go attack and expand at the same time. Remember to split the queen away from the rest of the army using FFs and use your void to snipe those roaches, use 2 zlots to kill queen and the rest to focus down roaches/ hatch.
Any other questions? Add me, pglantas.961
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3gate sentry expand. The build was linked by someone up there. It'll feel awkward moving out with a mostly sentry army, but keep to the walls, keep your ball together and be generous with ff if you get speedling ambushed. Do not lose sentries at all costs.
Also, remember to check your replays for macro mistakes. I know when I start losing in a particular matchup my build execution starts slipping. No matter what you're doing make sure you're doing it right.
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On February 20 2011 13:41 ZUR1CH wrote:
yea as other have pointed out, sentries can be very important. especially late game, i've found, when facing ultralisks. if you have collossus with range upgrade and can split the zerg army, you can have a lot of success. it obviously prevents the ultralisks being able to pound you as a single unit ball -- you can either forcefield them away or split them up and deal damage that way. i rarely do not go for collossus against zerg. if he makes a ton of corrupters, make more stalkers. if there's ultras, make more immortals, etc. and forcefield him to take advantage of collossus range.
You know, ultras are massive so they break forcefields.
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Cheers people, I have cleared undervalued sentries in PvZ. I won a game beautifully with an 8 sentry harass, and even though I was sloppy keeping them alive I came back with a 16 warp gate charge on 4 bases. I guess its all about strat.
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On February 20 2011 09:05 haegN wrote:
Make 25 probes, 4 gates, and attack at random times.
Hurp durp. Shut up.
Somebody posted Incontrol's 3gate expand style that a lot of good Protoss are using these days. I highly recommend it.
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EPT
