EPTThank you very much Mr.Bitter aka Flabulous
[G/D] Skipping Mutas for Infestors in ZvT - Page 15
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EvilZergling
United States194 Posts
Thank you very much Mr.Bitter aka Flabulous | ||
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Sophomoric
United States54 Posts
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hiyo_bye
United States737 Posts
Works like a charm, especially if you tech to ultras, when you can seriously rofl stomp many tank marine armies in a head on fight | ||
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imbecile
563 Posts
Some have alluded to it already that nydus would be a great addition. But I think it's good to explain why. Two man reasons: 1. Zerglings have the best dps to food ratio in the game. Their strengths is doing a lot of damage fast, not taking a lot of damage. Which means they are most effective in places where the opponent has few forces: e.g. in his base/production line. Cracklings don't dismantle bases as fast as they did in BW, but they still do it pretty damn fast and for cheap. Ultras are exceptionally good at that too, and with nydus and not much resistance their speed is not really an issue either. Additionally I think that the most vulnerable piece of a terran is his production. We all know the "No SCVs? No problem got MULES" joke, and there is a lot of truth to it. 2. Infestors control and delay terran army movement. This means you can prevent the terran army from running back to safe his base and from counter attacking while your army wreaks havoc in his base. 50 zerglings and a handful Ultras destroy whole bases in those long 8s a fungal lasts. And once the fungals and the infestor energy run out, your army is back in no time to defend against a weakened terran army that can't be reinforced. The only time I get mutas is, if there is too much drop play or if I need to create a blind spot in his base for a nydus. | ||
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DrDoom
United States107 Posts
One problem I have is with the cliff over the natural on LT. What do you guys do about this? Without mutas its pretty hard to prevent the drops onto there since spine crawlers can't cover the whole ledge. | ||
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BattRoll
100 Posts
On February 23 2011 16:33 DrDoom wrote: First off I want to say this build is awesome and I've been using it in all my ZvT games. One problem I have is with the cliff over the natural on LT. What do you guys do about this? Without mutas its pretty hard to prevent the drops onto there since spine crawlers can't cover the whole ledge. I generally play very defensively on LT vs terran. I try to get a few roaches out early and a sunken to stop any early harass (very minimal ling count). I usually expect that the terran will drop my natural cliff so I go quick lair and start spreading creep on the cliff with overlords. This stops turrets/bunkers which can make a cliff drop virtually unrecoverable. I usually get 3 or 4 queens out and reposition my spine crawler next to the ledge. Between the spine crawler, a few roaches and queens + the overlords spewing creep, this makes it very uncomfortable for the terran on that cliff. If they do a tank/marine/svc drop, infested terrans will actually finish it off in this scenario. Otherwise if it's a thor you just need a few mutas spread out attacking it preferably while being healed by your queens. The trick is to basically play the entire early game as though it's going to happen because if they catch you off guard with this, you're usually not in a position to stop it. | ||
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BattRoll
100 Posts
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Creegz
Canada354 Posts
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DeCiBle
United States102 Posts
On February 22 2011 06:53 Nemireck wrote: LZGamer, in his coaching session with Bitter states that "Medivacs are actually the counter to infestor play." So I don't think that there is any easy solution to that problem. Banelings, I would imagine are the key to fighting medivacs. Use the fungal not to deal damage to the marines, but to hold them in place and then clean up with a group of banelings since the marines won't be capable of kiting. Just a thought, but has anyone tried neural parasiting medivacs in the absence of tanks? Without tanks to snipe infestors, suddenly fungals do their regular damage, AND you have a medivac healing your own units. Just a random thought, but might be something to try vs MMM with a lot of medivacs, or against a T with less siege tanks, or against marine tank if you fungal the tanks un-sieged (i.e.: catch him out of position) | ||
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ThisIsSparta_
Austria39 Posts
coz i find no way to prevent or defend those drops efficiently...ventral sags takes too long, i cannot engage a thor with my mutas, coz ussually there will be scv to repair it and its also hard to defend a tank drop with mutas, coz there will always be a bunch of marines to protect it. and even when i can defend it, i feel like i am behind in econ, for i have to cut drones to get faster tech ( mutas, ventral sacs). has anyone tried to defend such drops with infestors? are infested terrans enough to deal with it? | ||
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Sandermatt
Switzerland1365 Posts
The third question trouble me the most, how can I deal with banshees using this opening. I mean obviously once you have infestors with fungals it gets easier, but how do you do it before (1 port or 2 port banshee). | ||
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BattRoll
100 Posts
On February 23 2011 18:09 ThisIsSparta_ wrote: Is there a way to deal with tank or thor drops with infestors on lost temple?? coz i find no way to prevent or defend those drops efficiently...ventral sags takes too long, i cannot engage a thor with my mutas, coz ussually there will be scv to repair it and its also hard to defend a tank drop with mutas, coz there will always be a bunch of marines to protect it. and even when i can defend it, i feel like i am behind in econ, for i have to cut drones to get faster tech ( mutas, ventral sacs). has anyone tried to defend such drops with infestors? are infested terrans enough to deal with it? read my response a few posts up infestors can't deal with thors. but a few mutas can - 4 queens can heal a few mutas to take down a thor. You obviously want to snipe the SVCs first though | ||
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Yagulare
Poland42 Posts
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ThisIsSparta_
Austria39 Posts
On February 23 2011 18:30 Sandermatt wrote: I have some questions. You write that if he 1 rax expands you can get away with only 2 lings. How big are the chances to just crush his greedy expand with mass speedling if the natural is open? Second question: In what situation do you use spines to defend your natural. The third question trouble me the most, how can I deal with banshees using this opening. I mean obviously once you have infestors with fungals it gets easier, but how do you do it before (1 port or 2 port banshee). Its really hard to deal with banshees. your only chance to deal with it is to scout it. then you can add a few more queens ( i guess 4 are more than enough to fend his first push off) and as you but down 2 evos, when you start your layer you can throw down 2 spores on each expansion. with proper transfusions you should be able to hold it until your infestors are out. when he denies scouting, when you dont see the ports with our overlord...well then you can only hope that he has bad micro and you have luck.. | ||
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ThisIsSparta_
Austria39 Posts
your way to deal with thor drop sounds nice and i am sure it would work, but i will try if its possible to hold it off with infestors, coz they are too awesome against terran. and when i get infestors i get 4-5 at ones and i think they will be able to spawn enough IT to deal with a thor. i just need to test if i can get em out before my hatch is down, because i always wait until pathogen glands are halfway done before i spawn my first infestors. btw i always get 3-4 queens coz i fear terran could just go for banshees, so they can support my infestors to deal with the thor. How do i know if terran goes for a thor drop and not just for a tank drop? beside scouting an armory of course  | ||
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CookieMaker
Canada880 Posts
On February 23 2011 19:30 ThisIsSparta_ wrote: Its really hard to deal with banshees. your only chance to deal with it is to scout it. then you can add a few more queens ( i guess 4 are more than enough to fend his first push off) and as you but down 2 evos, when you start your layer you can throw down 2 spores on each expansion. with proper transfusions you should be able to hold it until your infestors are out. when he denies scouting, when you dont see the ports with our overlord...well then you can only hope that he has bad micro and you have luck.. Not scouting the 1/2port banshee is really rough. Getting a fast 3rd queen is always a great idea becasue your infestors LOOOVE creepspread, plus between 3 queens you can generally defend a 1-port banshee play until spores are up. A 2-port banshee play is going to be more delayed than a single starport. Bottom line, if you don't see tanks being made when you poke up, that gas has to be spent somewhere. It's either going heavy medivac, banshees or thors. Find out quick. | ||
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Tudi
Romania127 Posts
P.S. MrBitter, I saw your stream the other day as you had that epic match against a 2900ish terran on shakuras horizontal. He totally destroyed your main with a marauder push through the rocks but you fought back with fungal/neural to win the game and make him ragequit. I was wondering if there's anywhere I can get that replay from since I can't, for the life of me, remember what his name was (Airforce, airsomething?). Maybe someone else here knows what I'm talking about and can point me in the right direction. | ||
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Sandermatt
Switzerland1365 Posts
On February 23 2011 19:48 TheCookieMonster wrote: Not scouting the 1/2port banshee is really rough. Getting a fast 3rd queen is always a great idea becasue your infestors LOOOVE creepspread, plus between 3 queens you can generally defend a 1-port banshee play until spores are up. A 2-port banshee play is going to be more delayed than a single starport. Bottom line, if you don't see tanks being made when you poke up, that gas has to be spent somewhere. It's either going heavy medivac, banshees or thors. Find out quick. So if this strategies are so hard if unscouted, should I always steal the gas (even on maps like scrap station?) | ||
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Cheeznuklz
60 Posts
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
I think Queens is an essential part of it lategame though. I honestly don't think ultras are that powerful even fully upgraded. Incorporating queens in for additional AA and Transfusion seems like a natural choice though. Also, creep spread is amazing with Ultras. The main advantage I see with Ultras over Brood Lords is speed. And with creep spread you can really move across the map quickly with ultralisks. | ||
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