EPTAre these builds sufficient enough for each race?
vT: 2 gate robo
vZ: 4gate
vP: 4gate
I'm a silver level player
New to PvX, trying to practice builds.
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Floppydisk
United States14 Posts
Are these builds sufficient enough for each race? vT: 2 gate robo vZ: 4gate vP: 4gate I'm a silver level player | ||
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`chain
United States124 Posts
I'd recommend 3gate robo for PvZ. 2 gate PvT is questionable, but I suppose it's all right. 4gate all the way for PvP <3 That's all for me. 1.3k bronze btw, so my advice probably isn't the best. | ||
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
Overall I would suggest finding a way to expand in every matchup, 4gate is basically like playing solitaire. | ||
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Floppydisk
United States14 Posts
Judging from the number of "i keep losing to 4gate" threads from t and z, i thought it was standard for bronze to plat but maybe ill have to try something else | ||
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baoluvboa
743 Posts
Vs terran - 1 gate into expo - from then depending on your scouting with stalker, you can either make 3 more gates if he is not teching or fast robo 2 gate if he is teching Vs zerg - 3 gates into expo into either 6 gate timing push or robo tech depending on scout Vs Protoss - 4 gates is fine but if you are good at 3 gates robo, you will win more consistently and you won't lose to gimmicky stuff such as DTs - 3 accounts above 3k master atm - 55% + and one at 60% Focus on your macro over micro, always making probes, count 16 probes at each mineral and saturate correctly, remember scouting is extremely important. | ||
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
On February 03 2011 06:58 Floppydisk wrote: Thanks for the info. Judging from the number of "i keep losing to 4gate" threads from t and z, i thought it was standard for bronze to plat but maybe ill have to try something else You'll win with 4gate, but you won't improve, and eventually you'll hit a wall. Better to practice other things. | ||
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Sleight
2471 Posts
On February 03 2011 07:11 Cel.erity wrote: You'll win with 4gate, but you won't improve, and eventually you'll hit a wall. Better to practice other things. This is wrong. You WILL improve 4 gating. You will get a ton of wins, move up a few divisions, and then start losing. Then you will be forced to increase your APM, macro, micro, etc. I am a master level Protoss and my biggest skill improvements were from 4 gating game after game in diamond and trying to force wins against better players. You win some, you lose some, you learn, you improve. | ||
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`chain
United States124 Posts
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
On February 03 2011 07:18 Sleight wrote: This is wrong. You WILL improve 4 gating. You will get a ton of wins, move up a few divisions, and then start losing. Then you will be forced to increase your APM, macro, micro, etc. I am a master level Protoss and my biggest skill improvements were from 4 gating game after game in diamond and trying to force wins against better players. You win some, you lose some, you learn, you improve. Well, if you say so. Of course you will improve with any build you choose, but 4gating every game simply doesn't teach you as many things. There are guys in diamond who cannon rush and 6pool almost every game. They're very good at it, but I would argue they're not good at SC2 in general. I do agree though, that knowing your build inside and out helps you to concentrate more on the little things, which I believe is what you were trying to say. | ||
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On February 03 2011 07:01 baoluvboa wrote: Here are my builds: Vs terran - 1 gate into expo - from then depending on your scouting with stalker, you can either make 3 more gates if he is not teching or fast robo 2 gate if he is teching Vs zerg - 3 gates into expo into either 6 gate timing push or robo tech depending on scout Vs Protoss - 4 gates is fine but if you are good at 3 gates robo, you will win more consistently and you won't lose to gimmicky stuff such as DTs - 3 accounts above 3k master atm - 55% + and one at 60% Focus on your macro over micro, always making probes, count 16 probes at each mineral and saturate correctly, remember scouting is extremely important. Re: vT - What are some of the best P responses to 3rax, especially one that I know is going to happen? Does 1 gate expo survive against that push? | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On February 03 2011 07:31 JinDesu wrote: Re: vT - What are some of the best P responses to 3rax, especially one that I know is going to happen? Does 1 gate expo survive against that push? Yes, it does. There are many misconceptions about 1 gate fe losing to 3 rax. You just need to put down 2-3 gateways after expanding *cut probes* and with your warp-in + probes you win. If he expands behind it, then it really doesn't matter because it takes around 100 seconds for him to start saturating while you're completing saturation. | ||
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Floppydisk
United States14 Posts
First game tonight was a PvT. Macro was horrible and got 3 raxed. lost hard. Will try robo next time 2nd game was PvP. The matchup is EXACTLY what I expected. I went 4 gate and as I'm taking his base out, he says "YOU FUCKING SCRUB 4 GATE PIECE OF SHIT, learn a real strat fag" ....He went 4 gate too. Lol http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/134281-1v1-protoss-scrap-station | ||
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baoluvboa
743 Posts
This is what you do 1 zealot 1 stalker - then you should be at 26/26 food if you made probes constantly and used 2 chrono on nexus then make one pylon, then the nexus, then you stop probes production. You use the zealot stalker to poke up his ramp, if you see 1/ all marines then you can "assume" tech, 2/if you see marauder with concussive you can guess a 3 gates play or at least some aggression. Case 1/ - you make robo right after you make nexus then 2 gates after (never cutting probes at this point now) Case 2/ - drop 3 more gates down while cutting probes, after 3 gates down you can start probes again | ||
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ZomgTossRush
United States1041 Posts
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Rouel
Sweden138 Posts
Alot of these mechanics are taken for granted by veteran players. Learning how to read and play reactively against less than mid-diamond is probably a waste of time. By the time you're at diamond you should know how to use your gateway units and defend 8pools and proxy gates. | ||
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Flaunt
New Zealand784 Posts
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Floppydisk
United States14 Posts
I played against a terran player who 3 rax'ed me, but wasted resources on a reaper and a ghost( didn't use emp) I went 3 gate robo with two immortals in my first battle, but they didn't seem to do much at all. I'm sure my strat wasn't working, just not sure what would have worked better, or if I moved in too fast, maybe I should have waiting for Collosus. or I wasn't macroing properly. Here is a replay if that helps. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/134285-1v1-terran-protoss-xelnaga-caverns Btw, thanks everyone for the help, I can't believe how awesome and supportive of new players ppl on the forum can be, especially with silver leaguers. | ||
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adrift
192 Posts
PvZ: 3 gate expand is most safe/standard build. forge expand on certain maps/positions PvT: 2 gate robo (safest) or 1 gate FE (big maps/cross positions) PvP: just 4 gate | ||
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DFarce
55 Posts
3 gate expo is great PvZ too, just apply a little stalker pressure when you expo (don't need to even attack, just force him to build some army). Just watch out for early pool builds (<10 supply). Oh, and you can always try a 16 nex if you're feeling lucky :p 2 gate robo as suggested is great PvT, just make sure to have a sentry on hand early game to split his army with a forcefield should he try to push up your ramp with an early bioball. You can also pull off a 3 gate expo vs T with better macro (less viable than vs P or Z though). | ||
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snafulator
Antigua/Barbuda72 Posts
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HolyHenk
35 Posts
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pandaBee
United States251 Posts
After that point, you can start practicing more "standard builds" here are a few I like to do that I highly recommend you practice for each matchup vs P - 4 gate (when you get better at this, you might consider 3 gate blink stalker) vs Z - 3 gate expand into either robotics or 6 gate blink stalker push ( on close positions ) vs T - 3 gate expand into robotics or into 6 gateway mid-game push (unless you are sure he is getting banshees then you might need to go 2 gate robo instead or if they're later banshees u can expand on 3 gate and get a robo after your expo has been warped in) -also, 1 gate expand is a viable option on larger maps. Esp if Terran is going for early expo himself. id recommend you master these builds before you try any fancy stargate play stargate builds require a lot more apm than the ones listed above, so you should really learn the simpler builds before trying out fancy ones. | ||
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nekuodah
England2409 Posts
Vs zerg id reccomend doing a 3 gate sentry expand into collosus, strong build involving macro play. And as for PvP just 4gate until your comfortable with protoss as a whole and then you might wanna start experimenting with robo builds. | ||
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Salv
Canada3083 Posts
On February 03 2011 07:18 Sleight wrote: This is wrong. You WILL improve 4 gating. You will get a ton of wins, move up a few divisions, and then start losing. Then you will be forced to increase your APM, macro, micro, etc. I am a master level Protoss and my biggest skill improvements were from 4 gating game after game in diamond and trying to force wins against better players. You win some, you lose some, you learn, you improve. Disagree. You will get a ton of wins by simply making units and attacking with them, it gives you no experience on mid-game, late-game, unit compositions, what you need to scout for, etc - you simply make your four-gates and hope for the best. You might get better four gate mechanics, but that doesn't mean anything in a mid-late game scenario. Furthermore, playing long games in a variety of situations is the best way to learn. It's always been the consensus that strong, safe, conservative play is the fastest and best way to improve. It's not that you can't get better using four gate, but there's better ways. Now on to the actual topic at hand. FloppyDisk, your best bet is to have one goal in mind the entire early game, for every matchup: Scout the opponent, react to what he's doing. You'll learn more about what certain builds mean, the timings, etc as you begin to play more with this type of play. Your goal is to get an observer in each matchup off of one-base, and then scout them out and react. PvP - Best bet is three gateways, robotics. If while you're scouting them with your probe they have faster buildings than you, and/or they are cutting probes, make four gateways instead. Defend, and tech robotics, observer, scout, etc. PvT - 2 gate robo. 2 gate can hold off any type of early aggression from the Terran if you use your units correctly (you have to mix zealot, sentry, stalker - and abuse your ramp), and then you can scout them out with an observer. React from there. PvZ - 1 gate robo. If they're mining gas and they have a pool when you get there, consider making 2 gateways before a robo. The idea is the same though, get an observer out, and scout your opponent. There's a lot of stuff to know to scout for, what buildings mean, what you can do to force your opponent to do what you want, etc - but these are basic openers that should be safe 95% of the time and you'll play macro games, which is what you want to improve. Good luck. | ||
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