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New to PvX, trying to practice builds.

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Floppydisk
Profile Joined January 2011
United States14 Posts
February 02 2011 21:23 GMT
#1
New to protoss and im trying to get comfortable with the basic builds to be as proficient as fast as possible with toss. I wanted to really practice my early game mechanics and get my timing down vs scouting and building according to what I see. I figure it would be more helpful to just practice a few builds and lose to due to poor scouting than to focus on changing my build and never getting the fundamental timings down.

Are these builds sufficient enough for each race?

vT: 2 gate robo
vZ: 4gate
vP: 4gate

I'm a silver level player
`chain
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States124 Posts
February 02 2011 21:37 GMT
#2
Hello Floppy!
I'd recommend 3gate robo for PvZ.
2 gate PvT is questionable, but I suppose it's all right.
4gate all the way for PvP <3

That's all for me.
1.3k bronze btw, so my advice probably isn't the best.
Cel.erity
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4890 Posts
February 02 2011 21:49 GMT
#3
Meh, I don't know how much you're going to improve with 4gate. In PvP it's not a bad idea, but in PvZ I would try something else like 2gate stargate expand. It's pretty safe and teaches you a lot more about the game.

Overall I would suggest finding a way to expand in every matchup, 4gate is basically like playing solitaire.
We found Dove in a soapless place.
Floppydisk
Profile Joined January 2011
United States14 Posts
February 02 2011 21:58 GMT
#4
Thanks for the info.

Judging from the number of "i keep losing to 4gate" threads from t and z, i thought it was standard for bronze to plat but maybe ill have to try something else
baoluvboa
Profile Joined December 2010
743 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-02 22:02:25
February 02 2011 22:01 GMT
#5
Here are my builds:
Vs terran - 1 gate into expo - from then depending on your scouting with stalker, you can either make 3 more gates if he is not teching or fast robo 2 gate if he is teching
Vs zerg - 3 gates into expo into either 6 gate timing push or robo tech depending on scout
Vs Protoss - 4 gates is fine but if you are good at 3 gates robo, you will win more consistently and you won't lose to gimmicky stuff such as DTs

- 3 accounts above 3k master atm - 55% + and one at 60%

Focus on your macro over micro, always making probes, count 16 probes at each mineral and saturate correctly, remember scouting is extremely important.
Cel.erity
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4890 Posts
February 02 2011 22:11 GMT
#6
On February 03 2011 06:58 Floppydisk wrote:
Thanks for the info.

Judging from the number of "i keep losing to 4gate" threads from t and z, i thought it was standard for bronze to plat but maybe ill have to try something else


You'll win with 4gate, but you won't improve, and eventually you'll hit a wall. Better to practice other things.
We found Dove in a soapless place.
Sleight
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
2471 Posts
February 02 2011 22:18 GMT
#7
On February 03 2011 07:11 Cel.erity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2011 06:58 Floppydisk wrote:
Thanks for the info.

Judging from the number of "i keep losing to 4gate" threads from t and z, i thought it was standard for bronze to plat but maybe ill have to try something else


You'll win with 4gate, but you won't improve, and eventually you'll hit a wall. Better to practice other things.


This is wrong. You WILL improve 4 gating. You will get a ton of wins, move up a few divisions, and then start losing. Then you will be forced to increase your APM, macro, micro, etc. I am a master level Protoss and my biggest skill improvements were from 4 gating game after game in diamond and trying to force wins against better players. You win some, you lose some, you learn, you improve.
One Love
`chain
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States124 Posts
February 02 2011 22:20 GMT
#8
Actually, I think 4 gate is a perfectly viable build in pvp. Of course, you want to know other solid builds and all that, but IMO 4gate is perfectly fine as long as you don't do it every game in all MUs.
Cel.erity
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4890 Posts
February 02 2011 22:24 GMT
#9
On February 03 2011 07:18 Sleight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2011 07:11 Cel.erity wrote:
On February 03 2011 06:58 Floppydisk wrote:
Thanks for the info.

Judging from the number of "i keep losing to 4gate" threads from t and z, i thought it was standard for bronze to plat but maybe ill have to try something else


You'll win with 4gate, but you won't improve, and eventually you'll hit a wall. Better to practice other things.


This is wrong. You WILL improve 4 gating. You will get a ton of wins, move up a few divisions, and then start losing. Then you will be forced to increase your APM, macro, micro, etc. I am a master level Protoss and my biggest skill improvements were from 4 gating game after game in diamond and trying to force wins against better players. You win some, you lose some, you learn, you improve.


Well, if you say so. Of course you will improve with any build you choose, but 4gating every game simply doesn't teach you as many things. There are guys in diamond who cannon rush and 6pool almost every game. They're very good at it, but I would argue they're not good at SC2 in general. I do agree though, that knowing your build inside and out helps you to concentrate more on the little things, which I believe is what you were trying to say.
We found Dove in a soapless place.
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
February 02 2011 22:31 GMT
#10
On February 03 2011 07:01 baoluvboa wrote:
Here are my builds:
Vs terran - 1 gate into expo - from then depending on your scouting with stalker, you can either make 3 more gates if he is not teching or fast robo 2 gate if he is teching
Vs zerg - 3 gates into expo into either 6 gate timing push or robo tech depending on scout
Vs Protoss - 4 gates is fine but if you are good at 3 gates robo, you will win more consistently and you won't lose to gimmicky stuff such as DTs

- 3 accounts above 3k master atm - 55% + and one at 60%

Focus on your macro over micro, always making probes, count 16 probes at each mineral and saturate correctly, remember scouting is extremely important.


Re: vT - What are some of the best P responses to 3rax, especially one that I know is going to happen? Does 1 gate expo survive against that push?
Yargh
iChau
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1210 Posts
February 02 2011 22:32 GMT
#11
On February 03 2011 07:31 JinDesu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2011 07:01 baoluvboa wrote:
Here are my builds:
Vs terran - 1 gate into expo - from then depending on your scouting with stalker, you can either make 3 more gates if he is not teching or fast robo 2 gate if he is teching
Vs zerg - 3 gates into expo into either 6 gate timing push or robo tech depending on scout
Vs Protoss - 4 gates is fine but if you are good at 3 gates robo, you will win more consistently and you won't lose to gimmicky stuff such as DTs

- 3 accounts above 3k master atm - 55% + and one at 60%

Focus on your macro over micro, always making probes, count 16 probes at each mineral and saturate correctly, remember scouting is extremely important.


Re: vT - What are some of the best P responses to 3rax, especially one that I know is going to happen? Does 1 gate expo survive against that push?


Yes, it does. There are many misconceptions about 1 gate fe losing to 3 rax. You just need to put down 2-3 gateways after expanding *cut probes* and with your warp-in + probes you win. If he expands behind it, then it really doesn't matter because it takes around 100 seconds for him to start saturating while you're completing saturation.
us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1688911/1/SaniShahin/ | http://teamenvy.net/
Floppydisk
Profile Joined January 2011
United States14 Posts
February 03 2011 05:30 GMT
#12
Here's What happened tonight.


First game tonight was a PvT. Macro was horrible and got 3 raxed. lost hard. Will try robo next time


2nd game was PvP. The matchup is EXACTLY what I expected. I went 4 gate and as I'm taking his base out, he says "YOU FUCKING SCRUB 4 GATE PIECE OF SHIT, learn a real strat fag"


....He went 4 gate too. Lol

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/134281-1v1-protoss-scrap-station
baoluvboa
Profile Joined December 2010
743 Posts
February 03 2011 05:43 GMT
#13
gates are actually better to stop 3 raxes than robo

This is what you do
1 zealot 1 stalker - then you should be at 26/26 food if you made probes constantly and used 2 chrono on nexus
then make one pylon, then the nexus, then you stop probes production. You use the zealot stalker to poke up his ramp, if you see 1/ all marines then you can "assume" tech, 2/if you see marauder with concussive you can guess a 3 gates play or at least some aggression.


Case 1/ - you make robo right after you make nexus then 2 gates after (never cutting probes at this point now)
Case 2/ - drop 3 more gates down while cutting probes, after 3 gates down you can start probes again
ZomgTossRush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1041 Posts
February 03 2011 05:49 GMT
#14
For any new player I like to teach really solid stable builds. From there you can branch out to more volatile play styles. Try some 3 warpgate expands vZ and 3 warpgate robo expand vT. vP is alittle tricky and 4 gate expands aren't actually a terrible idea. Either way every build you do should have an idea of an expo timing, at least until you get nice solid mechanics.
Coaching for 1v1 and Team games at Gosucoaching.com
Rouel
Profile Joined March 2009
Sweden138 Posts
February 03 2011 05:54 GMT
#15
As a beginner 4gate is probably a good place to focus on. You'll quickly have to learn to always chrono and warp in your units ASAP and learn how to break a ramp, when to back off, when to push, how to forcefield, etc.
Alot of these mechanics are taken for granted by veteran players. Learning how to read and play reactively against less than mid-diamond is probably a waste of time.
By the time you're at diamond you should know how to use your gateway units and defend 8pools and proxy gates.
Flaunt
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
New Zealand784 Posts
February 03 2011 05:58 GMT
#16
I'd recommend going 3 warpgate robo vs every race. It's a solid opening which can go early or late game depending on how you play it out. It's very safe and you should just stick to two base play until you get to Diamond, then start adding a third base. Good luck bud!
What? You seek something? You wish to multiply yourself tenfold, a hundredfold? You seek followers? Seek zeros!
Floppydisk
Profile Joined January 2011
United States14 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-03 06:06:57
February 03 2011 06:06 GMT
#17
Ok,

I played against a terran player who 3 rax'ed me, but wasted resources on a reaper and a ghost( didn't use emp)

I went 3 gate robo with two immortals in my first battle, but they didn't seem to do much at all. I'm sure my strat wasn't working, just not sure what would have worked better, or if I moved in too fast, maybe I should have waiting for Collosus. or I wasn't macroing properly.

Here is a replay if that helps.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/134285-1v1-terran-protoss-xelnaga-caverns

Btw, thanks everyone for the help, I can't believe how awesome and supportive of new players ppl on the forum can be, especially with silver leaguers.
adrift
Profile Joined August 2010
192 Posts
February 03 2011 16:30 GMT
#18
Against Terran Immortal is very good against marauders and tanks but very bad against heavy marines. Didn't watch replay but if he went ghost he was probably marine heavy

PvZ: 3 gate expand is most safe/standard build. forge expand on certain maps/positions
PvT: 2 gate robo (safest) or 1 gate FE (big maps/cross positions)
PvP: just 4 gate
DFarce
Profile Joined July 2010
55 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-03 17:10:14
February 03 2011 17:06 GMT
#19
Due to other players poor macro, you can pull off a 3 gate expand in PvP at lower leagues without a problem. I haven't lost a PvP yet due to it once I started working on my macro.

3 gate expo is great PvZ too, just apply a little stalker pressure when you expo (don't need to even attack, just force him to build some army). Just watch out for early pool builds (<10 supply). Oh, and you can always try a 16 nex if you're feeling lucky :p

2 gate robo as suggested is great PvT, just make sure to have a sentry on hand early game to split his army with a forcefield should he try to push up your ramp with an early bioball. You can also pull off a 3 gate expo vs T with better macro (less viable than vs P or Z though).
snafulator
Profile Joined January 2011
Antigua/Barbuda72 Posts
February 03 2011 17:23 GMT
#20
3 gate robo works vs all, get the build stable and expand after the robo and put down the thing for colossus while u expand
HolyHenk
Profile Joined January 2011
35 Posts
February 03 2011 18:00 GMT
#21
Just learn one basic build and master it. I suggest 4 gate or 3 gate expand/robo. I started in bronze and sucked, one month later I was diamond with 70% winrate by using these strategies. Eventually you will keep on losing a specific match up then it's time to learn some more situational builds. Using 4 gate is a great way to learn. U will learn to micro your gateway units and you will learn the best mixes of gateway units. Which is really importnant because the majority of you army will be gateway units. Furthermore you will recognize different builds which you will learn to counter later on.
pandaBee
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States251 Posts
February 03 2011 18:09 GMT
#22
If you're a new player, I suggest 4 gating vs all three races until you have it down perfectly.

After that point, you can start practicing more "standard builds"

here are a few I like to do that I highly recommend you practice for each matchup

vs P - 4 gate (when you get better at this, you might consider 3 gate blink stalker)
vs Z - 3 gate expand into either robotics or 6 gate blink stalker push ( on close positions )
vs T - 3 gate expand into robotics or into 6 gateway mid-game push (unless you are sure he is getting banshees then you might need to go 2 gate robo instead or if they're later banshees u can expand on 3 gate and get a robo after your expo has been warped in)
-also, 1 gate expand is a viable option on larger maps. Esp if Terran is going for early expo himself.

id recommend you master these builds before you try any fancy stargate play

stargate builds require a lot more apm than the ones listed above, so you should really learn the simpler builds before trying out fancy ones.
nekuodah
Profile Joined August 2010
England2409 Posts
February 03 2011 18:09 GMT
#23
Vs terran 1 gate expo can hold most standard attacks including 3 rax if played correctly, but might be better for maps with tighter entrances to the natural when you start off.

Vs zerg id reccomend doing a 3 gate sentry expand into collosus, strong build involving macro play.

And as for PvP just 4gate until your comfortable with protoss as a whole and then you might wanna start experimenting with robo builds.
Salv
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Canada3083 Posts
February 03 2011 19:50 GMT
#24
On February 03 2011 07:18 Sleight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2011 07:11 Cel.erity wrote:
On February 03 2011 06:58 Floppydisk wrote:
Thanks for the info.

Judging from the number of "i keep losing to 4gate" threads from t and z, i thought it was standard for bronze to plat but maybe ill have to try something else


You'll win with 4gate, but you won't improve, and eventually you'll hit a wall. Better to practice other things.


This is wrong. You WILL improve 4 gating. You will get a ton of wins, move up a few divisions, and then start losing. Then you will be forced to increase your APM, macro, micro, etc. I am a master level Protoss and my biggest skill improvements were from 4 gating game after game in diamond and trying to force wins against better players. You win some, you lose some, you learn, you improve.


Disagree. You will get a ton of wins by simply making units and attacking with them, it gives you no experience on mid-game, late-game, unit compositions, what you need to scout for, etc - you simply make your four-gates and hope for the best. You might get better four gate mechanics, but that doesn't mean anything in a mid-late game scenario. Furthermore, playing long games in a variety of situations is the best way to learn. It's always been the consensus that strong, safe, conservative play is the fastest and best way to improve. It's not that you can't get better using four gate, but there's better ways.

Now on to the actual topic at hand. FloppyDisk, your best bet is to have one goal in mind the entire early game, for every matchup: Scout the opponent, react to what he's doing. You'll learn more about what certain builds mean, the timings, etc as you begin to play more with this type of play. Your goal is to get an observer in each matchup off of one-base, and then scout them out and react.

PvP - Best bet is three gateways, robotics. If while you're scouting them with your probe they have faster buildings than you, and/or they are cutting probes, make four gateways instead. Defend, and tech robotics, observer, scout, etc.

PvT - 2 gate robo. 2 gate can hold off any type of early aggression from the Terran if you use your units correctly (you have to mix zealot, sentry, stalker - and abuse your ramp), and then you can scout them out with an observer. React from there.

PvZ - 1 gate robo. If they're mining gas and they have a pool when you get there, consider making 2 gateways before a robo. The idea is the same though, get an observer out, and scout your opponent.

There's a lot of stuff to know to scout for, what buildings mean, what you can do to force your opponent to do what you want, etc - but these are basic openers that should be safe 95% of the time and you'll play macro games, which is what you want to improve. Good luck.
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