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On February 02 2011 04:37 ijoshjosh wrote:
For zerg, usually once you hit 200/200 u suicide it into the other player and then instantly remake 100 supply worth of units and attack again. This is called the 300/200 push.
This.
It is obviously "situational" (as Chill said) when doing anything, but as Zerg, this is one of your best bets. Don't just throw away your units but when you feel like you can do an even trade, go for it, cuz you'll most likely be able to re-macro and push your way into victory.
one thing to NEVER do though is just throw away units (unless you are freeing up supply of course). Best examples of this would be just throwing units at a strong point. I've seen IdrA go head long into a wall of supply depots and bunkers reinforced by a Planetary Fortress and lose everything. Just because you have economy and units doesn't mean it's necessary, there are usually better, more efficient ways to do it.
disclaimer: I am not an IdrA hater. It was just that one game that first came to mind when i think of over committing with a maxed out army simply because you have the resources to re-macro.
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More production buildings, upgrade everything, tech anything you haven't already.
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Spam production buildings (but not at your main in the case of a base-trade!)
Spam cannons! (not seen as much but I like doing it)
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In PvT if you're playing vs biotank or pure mech.
Vs Biotank you want to fight out of range of his tanks you can do this by exploiting his bases send a couple of blink stalkers or march your colossus up cliffs into his base, or storming mineral lines. You want him to unsiege and then you just charge.
Vs Puremech you want like 5 robos once you reach 4 bases so you can pump out a buttload of immortals, and the same goes for this again MOBILITY is your greatest weapon against tanks, and don't get scared if you get hit once but he has only like 2-3 at the location just roll it and run, and if it's really late game and you both split the map line the edge with 2-4 cannons so he can't drop.
Mobility+good decision making> tanks, the longer the game goes the more chance P has of winning don't be a dummy and be like O I HAZ MORE FOOD HEHE and charge him just be patient. You want him to unsiege or get himself into a bad concave/position.
And with your spare resources you should be constantly sending Dt's to expos just to make him uncomfortable or using speedprisms to drop storms on mineral lines. On 3 bases you should have like 10 Warpgates/2-3 robos and basically add 2 Warpgates 1 robo for each new base you get so you can instantly replenish any more.
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Along the lines of upgrading your army from low to high tier units, here is some interesting info. In terms of minerals and gas cost per food count, the first number is gas and minerals are equal. The second number I figured 1 gas = 2 mineral. The higher the number, the more bang for your 200 supply count buck you get. Obviously still take into account opponent army composition.
Zealot: 50 and 50
Stalker: 87.5 and 112.5
Sentry: 75 and 125
Dark Templar 125 and 187.5
High Templar 100 and 175
Immortal 87.5 and 112.5
Colossus 83.33 and 166.67
Phoenix: 125 and 175
Void Ray 133.3 and 183.33
Carrier 100 and 141.67
I hope there is at least one other person that this makes sense to. In essence, it's just saying the "army value" is higher if the 200 food count is filled with Void Rays, than if it's filled with Zealots. Again, opponents army composition is more important, but this hopefully offers something of value.
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You don't have "too many gateways" until about 100 because then you can literally warp In a 200 food army. But realistically you're going to have 70~ workers, 3-4 observers, 20-30 food of robotics/starport units and about 10 food worth of miscelleniois units (warp prisms, left over archons, etc...)
which means you actually have about 100~ food taken up by "stuff" and 100~ taken up by actual gateway units. If you have 50~ gateways, you can literally throw your gateway army at your opponent, rebuild it in 5 seconds, then push with your gateway+robotics/starport units essentially doing a 300 food push. If this push fails the warpgate cooldowns should be finished and you can push with another 100 food worth of troops immediately giving you what is essentially a 400food push.
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get every fricken upgrade you can to mke your 200/200 army feel like a 700/200 army because upgraded toss is SOOOOOO imfa lol. and get a crap ton more production facilities so you can do damage with your army and when it dies, you can instantly remake your 200/200 army again. take expansions (it seems redundant since ..im already maxed blah blah blah, but it really isnt.) More expos will 1) stop your opponent from having that expo and you will have more resources later to remake the army. send out unitsto all the expansions on the map and scout for his expansions, scout for openings and abuse them and hit him, and if you can see his army and you know your maxed army will either make him lose entirly our at least break even but you have the better economy - go for it and kill him. remember to REMACRO that army as it is dieing. This sometimes wont happen tho, in this case, harass his mineral line until he is significantly behind your economy and then go for the win.
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Upgrades, production facilities, hidden proxy pylons, and save a trust fund for a Protoss 300 food push.
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I always figured the P mineral sink was more Gateways...
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More unit producing structures, tech switch, upgrade.. Thanks guys! This'll help me a lot.
Also, I think I screwed up by not saying that it was exclusively the biotank Terran builds that were screwing me up. If a Terran doesn't incorporate Siege Tanks in his/her build at some point in the game, my army is going to walk all over them without even a second look. I have no problem with making more units that my opponent, it's just no matter how many units I have, those masses of Tanks are going to incinerate my ground units, and of course Vikings are taking away any air.
Seriously though, thank you guys for all your answers and insight, I'll definitely take this to ladder with me, and hopefully win more against this composition!
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If you play protoss and you get to max supply, chances are your army is going to be much more powerful than your opponents army. In this case, it doesn't hurt to spend your money on
1) More production facilities (gateways). This will allow you to quickly remax your army once your opponent eventually engages you.
2) Upgrades! Throwing down another forge and constantly chronoboosting them will make your maxed army even more devastating.
3) More bases. Make sure you have even saturation at all of your bases in order to maximize your income.
4) Higher tech. Investing in the fleetbeacon so you can get a mothership out will turn the tide of battle in your favor, especially if the engagement does not go as well as you would have liked. Also, getting the dark shrine if you haven't already gotten it is great for taking out your opponents production and tech late game.
5) Cannons. Spamming cannons to defend your tech, your fortified defensive position, as well as your new bases will help you immensely in defending.
Finally, this is just my preference, but once I get maxed out, I don't attack the opponent. I make sure that I have the best possible defensive position, so when the opponent eventually attacks me, I crush it, remax, and finish it off.
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I expand to every spot on the map, cover it in pylons, get up to 20 gates, and make at least 4 robos or stargates, cannon up the tech and mineral lines, and harass.
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As a Protoss, when I reach 200/200, I basically do everything [NoiSe] does, so I guess I'll elaborate.
I get a ton more warpgates; enough that I can throw my army away and instantly get a respectable one back. I also like to throw down a bunch of stargates to transition into void rays/carriers once I free up supply. Upgrades, air as well, not forgetting shields. Expanding a ton, and getting any tech I can think of, so that I'll be able to respond to anything my opponent throws at me.
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I figure terran should make more orbitals suicide/combat with SCVs to free up supply since MULEs are supply free
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On February 02 2011 10:18 Blasterion wrote:
I figure terran should make more orbitals suicide/combat with SCVs to free up supply since MULEs are supply free
Or bring all of them into a fight and make them mass repair. that also works.
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EPT
