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Hello everyone,
Recently, my overall macro just unfolded and I can really see a major improvement in my gameplay. I went from struggling in low diamond to dominating in mid diamond. At this point I am 2100 diamond and before I start facing insane opponents, I would like to be insane myself so I can keep on dominating.
Here is what I'm wondering:
-Do you, or do you not build a hatchery in your main base for extra larvae, and at what part of the game?
-Do you build a queen for that hatch?
-Do you only build it in certain situation?
I've realised that even though my injections and macro are generally good, sometimes when I win a battle I would really appreciate popping a massive wave of zergling to finish off my opponent at that point and sometimes only 2 (or more if you expanded a lot already) hatcheries isnt quite enough to really punish your opponent before reinforcements.
Before you answer keep in mind:
-This is about a macro inbase hatch, not an opening BO inbase hatch.
-I would prefer answers from mid diamond+ since proper queen inject and general macro during battles can make a difference if you need that hatch or not.
Looking forward to a great discussion!
BobbyBern
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The necessity of an inbase hatch depends on a couple of things:
- How good your injects are
- What kind of income you have
- What sort of units you're making
If you're trying to crank out 60 lings or something, you're going to need a macro hatch right away. Similarly, if you're making mutas, you probably won't need a macro hatch.
If you're good with your injects, you may find that you don't need a macro hatch unless you're going really heavy ling. I assume that you're not perfect with injects (I'm definitely not either), so sometimes it's appropriate. Figuring out when to throw down the macro hatch depends on getting a feeling for where your income is at versus your larvae production. If you've been tight on larvae, and you've just done a maynard, made a wave of drones, taken a high yield, or done anything that's going to spike your income beyond your capacity to make new larvae, it's a good idea to get the macro hatch. Just one of those things that's kind of intuitive, I suppose, sort of like knowing when to drone.
For those reasons, I don't always make a macro hatch. When I do, I rarely make a queen for the purpose of injecting, since I usually have queens with some spare energy to spit on the hatch, either because it was a spare queen being used to spread creep, or because my injects weren't perfect (which made the macro hatch necessary). The only case in which I'd definitely make another queen is if I was making an ass-ton of lings off of two base, since your injects need to be perfect on all three hatcheries to actually spend all your minerals.
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If you're stockpiling minerals, it can't really hurt to build a new Hatchery. 
I'm in the habit of making "light" expansions in longer games in situations when it would be too risky to commit to a fully saturated expansion. These have 6 Drones on gas, and depending on how long I think I can get away with it, some more Drones on minerals and even a Queen.
Because I don't commit to it, it doesn't take away from my army as much, nor is it too costly if I lose it (especially if I can save the Drones and Queen). But this does give me extra Hatcheries and Larvae that I can spend in the manner you suggest (especially if it means I wind up stockpiling Larvae)
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I would say it depends on the map and the game situation.
I am not mid diamond but recently I started using another hotkeysetting which made my larvae inject much better and now I really allmost never feel like I need an extra hatch.
I would however say that using an ingame hatch only makes sense if taking another expo is really incredibly risky if not I would allways prefer that. I mean you dont even need to saturate it at all yet but when time comes you can if needed.
I have been playing mainly muta ling lately and was astonished at how many units I could make of 2 hatches if I just injected regularly enough.
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I think when you have 2 fully saturated bases it's a good idea to build one.
edit: Yes I do builld a queen for it, since I inject very well. If I got some energy left I use it for spreading the creep all over the place.
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I think it's pretty simple really: If you want or need the ability to produce more units; however, you don't want to expand again as that would leave you vulnerable, build an in-base hatchery.
Just think about it this way: If I built another hatchery now, would it be too greedy to put it at a new, exposed, expansion, or would it be okay? If okay: put it at the new expo as it's obvious how more useful that is. If it isn't: Build it inside your base.
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I think it's pretty simple really: If you want or need the ability to produce more units; however, you don't want to expand again as that would leave you vulnerable, build an in-base hatchery.
Just think about it this way: If I built another hatchery now, would it be too greedy to put it at a new, exposed, expansion, or would it be okay? If okay: put it at the new expo as it's obvious how more useful that is. If it isn't: Build it inside your base.
You're wrong.
It's about the ressources/larvae ratio. If you train ultra only you probably won't need an extra hatchery, if you train lings only you probably need 1-2 extra hatcheries.
Since you almost never do that I would recommend getting an extra hatchery when you're on 2 fully saturated bases. If you get roach hydra or ling muta you will probably need an extra one.
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On December 20 2010 00:18 decaf wrote:Show nested quote +I think it's pretty simple really: If you want or need the ability to produce more units; however, you don't want to expand again as that would leave you vulnerable, build an in-base hatchery.
Just think about it this way: If I built another hatchery now, would it be too greedy to put it at a new, exposed, expansion, or would it be okay? If okay: put it at the new expo as it's obvious how more useful that is. If it isn't: Build it inside your base. You're wrong. It's about the ressources/larvae ratio. If you train ultra only you probably won't need an extra hatchery, if you train lings only you probably need 1-2 extra hatcheries. Since you almost never do that I would recommend getting an extra hatchery when you're on 2 fully saturated bases. If you get roach hydra or ling muta you will probably need an extra one.
No he's right, if you can get away with placing it in an expansion, do so. The only exception to this is if your Injects are so bad -that sounds offensive, but I don't mean it as such and it would describe the vast majority of players- that placing in your main would allow you to keep it Injected without building an extra Queen at the same time as you wouldn't be able to saturate an extra expansion within the foreseeable future.
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i try to build in-base hatchery when i am starting my third. It's personal because i hate when my new expo is down and i haven't got enough larva for army.
With zergs it's kinda same like tosses and terrans. You have to spend your money, and if you can't do it efficiently, then buid more production facilities - it's just natural basic usual rts logic.
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Well, placing the hatch on other places make your units not streaming in at the same time, which might be bad. Also, I dont think taking an extra base is worth the risk if I just want some extra larvae.
Even with perfect injects you will out-income your production capabilities.
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Basically whenever you have left over money which you aren't spending and feel that taking another base is too risky and you cant defend it atm. Its not harder than that.
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On December 20 2010 02:17 Genovi wrote:
Basically whenever you have left over money which you aren't spending and feel that taking another base is too risky and you cant defend it atm. Its not harder than that.
I tend to make an extra hatch even if I don't have a huge amount of extra money, but simply can't spend it all or am about to do an attack.
A ramp hatch (above) helps defend the base in many cases, due to the concept of guaranteed vs. potential damage, and the result is that a lot of attacks it will both buy you time and protect your base.
Also it forces many units into a ramp funnel for an easy surround.
You definitely need to be careful about adding a ramp hatch though, because if you do it too close to an expansion timing, you're going to be highly susceptible to counter-attack.
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I only build a hatch inbase if I go muta/ling and have good saturation on my bases. Other unit compositions don't really need it from my experience.
I rather use the 2 queens on my main/natural hatch to inject on it and have a third queen at my third base, my first 2 queens (unless they got killed) usually accumulate energy when I'm late on injects and I think the inbase hatch is a good way to spend that energy without making your queens run across the map to spawn tumors.
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i typically go for 2 bases, get a third queen to spread tumors, take my third after full saturation and then put an in base hatchery down when minerals allow afterward (that is, larva runs out with 3 base + queens). this is also what most players who have solid macro do in a normal late game. alternatively, some players take 2 bases on opposite ends of the map when the map allows, like on xel'naga. get a feel for it, but basically don't get one until you're economically sound on 2 bases and looking to take a third at least. just work on your macro if you can't spend your money until then.
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i usualy go inbase hatch right before i go for a second expand or perhaps sometimes right before third expand. but it realy depends on your larva injections. if you can keep it up, its worth it. if you cant, its not!
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EPT
