EPT[D] Making the Most of Random 3v3s and 4v4s - Page 2
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FakeDouble
Australia676 Posts
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FunnelC4kes
Ireland462 Posts
The only time I experience BM is when I play a 4v4 because I want to have a good time w/o taking the game seriously--but my teammates treat it like there's money on the line. Sure, you could get a team of ppl together for 3's or 4's... and that's a different story. But, when it's you and 3 other guys, it's pretty much everyman for himself, because even if one person has a battle plan, at most only 2 other people decide to follow it, and the last guy sits there wondering how he makes units. 3's and 4's are, imo, only there for the monobattles lol | ||
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KevinIX
United States2472 Posts
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
On December 04 2010 10:50 KevinIX wrote: Meh. I just play 3v3s for fun. I'm number 8 plat in my division and all I do is screw around. It's fun to mass void rays every now and then. Here's a tip: If you play with a pretty good teammate/opponent, message them after the game and see if you guys can team up. Then queue for 3v3. It still counts toward your random 3v3 ladder rank, but you're guaranteed a good ally and teamwork. Thats what I do in 4s with my partner. I never knew it did that. | ||
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Parra
United States152 Posts
In 4v4's I always suggest a mass tier 1 push and knock out at least one of our opponents. After they clean us up I double expand and tech while our opponents try to recover from the damage that we caused. They will usually try to build up counter units (tanks banelings, hellions etc) which won't do squat against my double expansions that are reinforced planetary fortresses with turrets. Communication is hard in random games but you can either request unit control of their army or ask a teammate who also has a force to follow you into battle. NEVER try to solo your opponents unless your doing an in and out drop or harass. If you have a teammate that is committed to doing something stupid like massing voidrays off one base even after you suggested them not to, all you can do is make a mobile army and play 'protect the idiot' | ||
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stealthgerbi
United States25 Posts
On December 03 2010 18:12 Lmui wrote: I just aim to have fun. My latest fun build is getting overlord speed, drops and 40 +1 attack speedlings by 7 minutes and dropping them in one guy's base and then booking it out with the overlords, rinsing and repeating. Since it's so gas light, I can get carapace and all the other tech at pretty much the same time and stockpile gas until I get a handful of ultras to drop in their mineral lines. Cleaning up speedlings in your base has to be one of the most annoying things there is in the game and if the other person is bad, you'll get the mineral line easily. I just tried this and its so fun. No one expects 40 zerglings to appear in their mineral field and I could tell it crippled the enemy team. I think half the reason we won that game was because the enemy team was spending all their minerals rebuilding workers  | ||
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Spammish
United Kingdom42 Posts
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
On December 14 2010 09:39 Spammish wrote: To revive a semi-dying thread, I've recently played a lot more 4v4s due to illness and knowing this would effect my 1v1 performance, every game I try to mass 1 unit, only fun units (void rays are fun in that if you get enough you can pretty much a1 through each base) such as ravens, ghosts, banshees etc. and I was surprised by 2 things. 1. Almost every player seems to be seriously playing, trying to climb the ladder in a game mode with so much random that being consistently good relies purely on the level of teamwork and applying completely different game sense than 1v1. The amount of times I've been called a member of the "lame teammates" while I seeker missile all the MMM and try to turret the collosi is astounding. 2. This nicely fits into the end of my first point, almost every player (on both teams) in every match I played had either played a high number of 4v4s (300,400,500) and had played about 20 bronze 1v1s or more importantly, there was a surprising amount of people that had 300+ 3v3 and 4v4 games (some even in gold and platinum) but hadn't even played 1 placement match for 1v1. In fact, in about 8-10 matches (which is about 56 different players I believe only 2 had played more 1v1s than myself and considering I've only played 57 games, this seems pretty ridiculous. This post has been longer than I had originally intended, but I think I've accurately described my point, I'm not saying people shouldn't do what they want, I just wonder why people would rather win in a scenario that doesn't matter instead of have fun. I've probably missed something, but this post is way too long for a first post. I have two bronze level friends who fit this description. Neither of them have the focus to figure out basic game mechanics; and neither wants to lose non-stop amidst trying and failing to 1v1. So, they play 3v3s so someone can protect them long enough so they can make tier 2 units. Personally, when I play 3v3s with them I take it as a chance to improve on my micro with units I generally don't use. As a Protoss, I found my high templar (storm/feedback) micro was lacking, so I tended to practice my basic macro every game until I got to HT tech, and practiced that. At this level, there are so many mass zergling/marine armies that it's actually viable to do that. I find as pure practice for late game/unit specific micro, 3v3s are kind of fun- at least when you play with friends and have some vested interest. | ||
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Feos
Germany71 Posts
On December 04 2010 07:26 DarkHelmet wrote: Random team games can help you practice scouting, watching the minimap, early game micro and super rush builds. Unless you actively lose a lot of games you will need to mass some tier 1 to have any hope of delaying to mid-late game. If you're halfway decent then you can win a longer game purely from superior macro. There have been some 4v4 games where I lose two of my teammates early and we still win from double expoing and macroing hard. What you absolutely cannot do is use any normal 1v1 builds, unless you like to auto-lose ~50% of your games. You really, really, need to build units early and scout as there will be an early push in the overwhelming majority of games. You also really learn the importance of scouting and watching the minimap. Positioning is even more important when the armies are huge and with big maps it is very important to know what is happening to your teammates to know when they need help. I play random team games to play around with the other races and just play in a much lower stress environment than 1v1s. If you lose a team game it's usually because one of your teammates did something incredibly stupid. So as long as you go into it expecting to lose then there's no pressure. I have a record of 91-48 in random 4v4 diamond, so it is possible win fairly consistently, but you shouldn't expect it. i agree with most of that. 3on3 and 4on4 is much easier than 1on1. and for many ppl much less stress  the question is, what you want to achieve. i would say, 3on3 and 4on4 are very good for training macro, game mechanics and build orders! beginner may play these modes for example to focus on building supply (depot, pylon, ovi) without getting blocked. or training harvester. scouting and a few more things. of course you cant do ANY 1on1 build, but there are many (escpecially one base builds), that work just fine. i learned that i improve drastically in 3on3 and 4on4 the better i got in 1on1. its just because in 1on1 your mechanics have to be tighter and more accurate. it is also true that there are many noobs. many stupid strategies like building 3 or 4 canons at the wall and going straight to void rays :/ i enjoy playing 3on3 and 4on4 but i must admit, that i get easily upset if battle.net sets me (as so often) up against an arranged team and a gold/platinum noob in my own team. unfortunately that happens quite often the higher you climb in diamond. but if you play with 1 or 2 good allies (high diamonds in 1on1) there are many more possibilities. for example it becomes viable to train things like 1 gate FE as protoss, as there will be enough units to defend a possible push and the expansion will help a lot soon. TL;DR: 3on3 and 4on4 isnt only for noobs and playing like a monkey. they are great opportunities to improve on mechanics or BOs or learn new races! | ||
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YuMSc2
Switzerland104 Posts
In 3v3, convince ur teammates to build up an army until 7min mark. Protoss will have had 3units + 2 warps, terran a ball of marine mauroders, and zerg ling or roaches. Tell them to give you control. Take out one opponent and back out. Macro. 80% win ratio right there. For 4v4, if u scout an early agression, do same tactic as 3v3, and if protoss cannons up or terrans bunker up or Z spines, get AIR. 70% win ratio right there. Of course 3v3 and 4v4 are never serius, but if you're in a mood to win, use these strats :D 2v2 requires more cooperation and refined strategies... | ||
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KezseN
Singapore1450 Posts
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noerml
7 Posts
Now making the most of 3vs3 as zerg: scout, scout scout - mostly some of your teammates will scout at around 11 supply. For 3vs3 that is wasted mining time. Scout at 7 supply if you see match ups that force early all-ins. if there is 2 or more zergs chances that u face an 8 pool average around 80 Percent. Scout and explicitly tell ur teammates what to do. Theres a 50% Chance some of them will listen and not rage quit. Same goes for matchups vs 3 terrans or 3 toss...people are prone to rush. However make sure to keep up the scouting!!! most random 3vs3 players scout, like i said, at around 11 supply, prolly cuz they read somewhere its what they are supposed to do. The early scout will help you not at all, because none of ur opponents will have any proper built order whatsoever. Playing zerg in 3vs3 is pretty easy tho - there is not a lot you can face. vs Toss: go straight for lings/mutas. Always make sure to get an overseer. There is bound to be some DT harass, especially if you are facing more than one toss (if one of them sends no stalkers, you know where the gas is going) Appart from that all toss will go either mass stalkers or mass voids. With lings/muatas you will be save. If you see phoenix - adding some corruptors is easy. Most Toss have no idea whatsoever how badly stalkers fare vs lings/muats. They will continue to mass them. vs Terran: don't invest too heavily into mutas. You will only force Thors, and mass upgraded thors is nothing you will want. Ultras are wortheless in 3vs3, broodlords are bound to get sniped by some other opponent'S air most of the time. roach lings is the answer for most of the game, if u keep up upgrades and add an investor or two. Most terrans are content with their ground army and add a banshee or two. But if they see mass mutas they will freak out and get starpots, continue to try shees, get ravens or mass vikings. While vikings are crap vs zerg, if ur teammate is a toss with collossi/mothership/carriers or a terran with medivacs...he will be in trouble. So try to keep your terrans ground based. vs other Zerg: Try to stay one step ahead...should be easy with proper scouting. some general observations: veto maps with big distances to your teammates - you will random vs a lot of arranged teams as well - so you don't want maps where it takes 5 mins to mobilize your teammates for support. people will expect muta harass, everyone gets it. They won't expect drops, burrowed roaches/infestors and to some extend nydus. make use of that. spread creep like mad for your team (meaning get early two extra queens) if you scout an early rush and you are the closest to the opponents - mass roaches, get an early second queen and a couple of crawlers (you will probably only be able to afford 2). Don't bother with lings...they will be wasted on early mass rine action. You will probably still lose your base, even witht hose precautions or be severly crippled - but most likely you can convince your teammates to take advantage and do the same to them. ah well..enuf of that xD | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
On December 14 2010 15:48 rexyrex wrote: What is all this nonsense??? In 3v3, convince ur teammates to build up an army until 7min mark. Protoss will have had 3units + 2 warps, terran a ball of marine mauroders, and zerg ling or roaches. Tell them to give you control. Take out one opponent and back out. Macro. 80% win ratio right there. For 4v4, if u scout an early agression, do same tactic as 3v3, and if protoss cannons up or terrans bunker up or Z spines, get AIR. 70% win ratio right there. Of course 3v3 and 4v4 are never serius, but if you're in a mood to win, use these strats :D 2v2 requires more cooperation and refined strategies... I think you missed the point of this post. Why bother with maximizing your win ratio if you can maximize the fun you're having instead? One thing I really don't understand is why people keep saying they play 3v3 "only for fun". Of course, but don't you play *SC2* only for fun? If not for fun, why are you playing 1v1? Yeah, I play 3v3 etc. when I'm tired, but I also only play 1v1 for fun (even if I take it more seriously); if I stopped having "fun" in 1v1, I'd stop playing it and stick to whatever is fun. Life's too short to take 1v1 too seriously. (None of the people on this thread earn their living with 1v1s. And please don't tell me that it makes you a better human being.) | ||
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Spammish
United Kingdom42 Posts
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Tommylew
Wales2717 Posts
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vdek
United States267 Posts
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Vrtigo
Australia31 Posts
For example I rolled Zerg (never play Z but hey, 4v4 is for fun, right?) and did a super quick 24 speedling build to punish anybody who didn't wall in. Sure this strat won't work forever but it should easily get you to platinum where you SHOULD start to get some better teammates.... Other than that, good luck! | ||
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Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
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FlaminGinjaNinja
United Kingdom879 Posts
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/124206-4v4-terran-protoss-zerg-outpost | ||
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Sm3agol
United States2055 Posts
Plus, hard countering an enemies army with a mass army of your own is extremely fun. FE, that one time I scouted BCs from both "techies", so I went HT/ Blink stalker, while my ally went MASS viking. And by mass, I mean 50 workers, the other 150 food being vikings. The 3/3 mass BC army showed up at my base with full energy, and I feedbacked virtually every single one, stormed under them, then blinked in while my ally's 70 something vikings just completely crapped on all those BCs. I almost shed a tear for them. | ||
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