I have to agree with Jeffrey. I rarely run into a successful bunker defense at the ramp. The thing is, I don't alert zerg to my presence though until the scvs are already building the bunkers. If there is a risk of a 6-pool, I will scout properly. Otherwise I stay outside of overlord or hatch range until my rax is finished. It works a lot, but it isn't helping my tvz game in general.

tgk0420

United States10 Posts

November 30 2010 16:30 GMT

#24

If Starcraft were rock, paper, scissors then 14 hatch would be paper and 2rax would be scissors. I think the SCV rush/all-in with marine stutter step micro is the best way to go about doing 2rax aggression. I think it's easier and safer than bunker rushing but that's just me.

statikg

Canada930 Posts

November 30 2010 18:40 GMT

#25

These days every zerg has an overlord at their second hatch and many 2000+ have a drone at their ramp, but I wouldn't say its the majority. I am wondering if because I scout after depot this tips some off that they dont have to bother.

CrayonKing

Cambodia124 Posts

November 30 2010 19:31 GMT

#26

What BO do you guys do for 2 rax pressure?

Just say short distance and you see zerg goes 14 hatch.

Ive been playing around with a lot of builds but none successful...

Do you bunker or no? and if you do bunker do you bunker @ ramp or near expansion.

iAmJeffReY

United States4262 Posts

November 30 2010 19:59 GMT

#27

On November 30 2010 09:24 FuzzyLord wrote:

Show nested quote +

Thats impossible. No matter where you put your bunker, as long as it is within range, it will be noticed.

WIthout overlord over the hatch, no it won't. Building range =/ equal 6, which is what a marine in a bunker is. I do it all the time, building buildings don't have enough sight to see.

Wrong. I still play 2.2+ zergs that STILL do neither. Good theorycraft tho. Most zergs refuse to put a drone at patrol on ramp, infact I've seen it just once. Even still, until they get punished over and over for it, many STILL don't put one over their hatch -- and if they do, there's still blind spots.

Guy asking for the build, it's up to you when you cut scvs, I don't.
10 supply 12 rax 14 rax 15 scv 16 Oc 16 supply continue pumping marines and scvs, CC starts at 27-28.

Photon

United States10 Posts

November 30 2010 20:04 GMT

#28

Question - I also try to do 2rax pressure if I see any type of fast expand, but what do you guys transition to if it fails?

CrayonKing

Cambodia124 Posts

November 30 2010 20:18 GMT

#29

On December 01 2010 04:59 iAmJeffReY wrote:

Guy asking for the build, it's up to you when you cut scvs, I don't.
10 supply 12 rax 14 rax 15 scv 16 Oc 16 supply continue pumping marines and scvs, CC starts at 27-28.

Hm yeah, when do u generally feel is a good time to move out and with how many scvs/marines? And do you bunker ramp or just go for the kills.

I guess BO is the easy part and decision making/micro-ing is what really makes the difference…Im about 2200 T aswell and I feel if I can add this to my builds I can punish Z’s who FE..

You mentioned you went 27 double rax in an earlier post? Did you mean double refinery? Because another issue I have is transitioning, I usually go some thor/banshee mix with mass marines while constant drop harass but transtioning from double rax if you aren’t macro-ing well while early pressure can be brutal!

iAmJeffReY

United States4262 Posts

November 30 2010 20:21 GMT

#30

OH ya, after I feel marines ran their course early game, I double refinery and turtle to get a couple tanks out.

I go at like 3 marines, no scvs cept for the two that build the barracks and the scouting SCV. Then I keep rallying marines until he pushes me back. You successfully made him make a lot of zerglings, and 1-2 sunkens for nothing but minerals.

I never have a set time for any push or strategy, I go based on feel. If I feel he doesn't react well enough, I'll wait for 8-10 marines and go again, and drop the expo, 2 more rax or dual refinery, and go again, and go again. Until he pushes back with banes, slings, or roaches, keep going.

Thats me, at least. I'm a weird guy

WaZz

27 Posts

November 30 2010 20:42 GMT

#31

i find bunker rush to be a bit risky if the zerg has any common sense so i usually use a standard
12ref
13rax
factory as rax finishes
now when the factory finishes tech lab and make 4 hellions while blue flame upgrades
at around 5:30 you should have 1 gas for a starport where you get ready for the tech switch to banshees because his only response to hellions can be roaches or you win.
4 hellion push if done perfectly can be sorted by 6:20-6:30 where the zerg basicaly has no units to defend unless hes paranoid and has cut probes but regardless if he gets lings its still easy pickings for the hellions. Works very well in the early game as long as you micro your hellions well because you have to constantly keep his drone count low or it will all become pointless. after about 8-9 mins in you should have begun building an expo and then just switch out to stim marines/tank ready for the muta tech (always happens).
This build if the zerg isnt prepared can usually end the game but if it doesnt then you should be on economic terms with the zerg to keep up with him. remember to almost constantly build hellions because the you want to harass him to death with hellions/banshee to try gain an advantage. Note that this only works well against FE but in diamond almost every zerg is greedy so

Can put a replay in if you want. try build as many marines as possible if he ries a counter attack with roaches (bunkers etc) which should be quite fine but make sure to get your expansion up on around the 8-10min mark.

CrayonKing

Cambodia124 Posts

November 30 2010 20:59 GMT

#32

On December 01 2010 05:42 WaZz wrote:
i find bunker rush to be a bit risky if the zerg has any common sense so i usually use a standard
12ref
13rax
factory as rax finishes
now when the factory finishes tech lab and make 4 hellions while blue flame upgrades
at around 5:30 you should have 1 gas for a starport where you get ready for the tech switch to banshees because his only response to hellions can be roaches or you win.
4 hellion push if done perfectly can be sorted by 6:20-6:30 where the zerg basicaly has no units to defend unless hes paranoid and has cut probes but regardless if he gets lings its still easy pickings for the hellions. Works very well in the early game as long as you micro your hellions well because you have to constantly keep his drone count low or it will all become pointless. after about 8-9 mins in you should have begun building an expo and then just switch out to stim marines/tank ready for the muta tech (always happens).
This build if the zerg isnt prepared can usually end the game but if it doesnt then you should be on economic terms with the zerg to keep up with him. remember to almost constantly build hellions because the you want to harass him to death with hellions/banshee to try gain an advantage. Note that this only works well against FE but in diamond almost every zerg is greedy so

This seems semi-all in with your hellions. If he puts up good spine crawlers and ur hellions do no economic dmage u r going to have to play a huge catch up game

WaZz

27 Posts

November 30 2010 21:02 GMT

#33

if he doesnt know what you are going then the chance is the max he'll put up is 1 spine crawler that you can just skip around into the main and melt the drons there. unless your opponent knows exactly what you are up to will he be able to perfectly defend against it but most people arent keen on spending a lot of minerals on semi static defenses (spine crawlers compared to zerglings). Also would like to say that if your macro is top notch that for the second push (usually right after first unless he dealt with the hellions swiftly) will be able to keep his defences and drone count low and by around 7-8mins you should have 2 banshees with cloak out ready. All im trying to say is that you'll usually do good damage unless he somehow knows exactly what you are doing and prepares for it all

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