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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On October 02 2010 09:41 Vaporized wrote:
i watched 3 games so far. really digging the hydra/infestor. hydras are so slow in sc2 but so deadly, i kinda love em.
have you tried pushing with that force? it seems like if your opponent (terran obv) is barracks heavy some nice fungals would allow you to break defenses. i hate having to wait for ultras. of course tanks are the natural response to hydra which would make pushing tough. i particularly liked the infested terrans into the tank ball which let you push in on xel naga i think.
this is more something ive just been wondering about in general but do you think koreans are as prone to one base all in as americans? a lot of korean replays and vods seem to show much more macro oriented play as opposed to my own experience on US. i have trouble especially with stopping some of these one base plays. can be very frustrating.
gonna watch some more later. keep em comin.
Q1. I, and every other top Zerg, don't like attacking into a Terran. Its all about killing the Terran army. Attacking into a race with those defensive capabilities + siege tanks is not a great idea.
Q2. No, of course not. US players 1 base allin far more than Korean players.
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On October 02 2010 10:16 BadWithNames wrote:
Dear Artosis,
I've watched 5-6 of the TvZ's and wow. You and IdrA (thanks for that vod) are generating an absolute ton of vision all of the sudden.
Noob questions:
What would you say to the people who say "bad terrans should just make ravens?"
Have you experimented with burrow for infestors at all? (they seem to naturally get in the way sometimes)
Mobility seems a little lower than with muta ling ultra. Have you incorporated nydus networks (not offensive worms) into this style?
Q1. I think Ravens should become a staple of TvZ eventually. Just making them won't solve what I'm doing here though. Once I have hydra/infestor out, if you have a small unit comp out with your raven trying to kill creep tumors, you will lose it. Therefore, you can only truly erase creep in areas you have sectioned off already, or as you push.
Q2. Not really. I'm working on directing them into battle slightly differently, so they are in casting range, yet not getting targeted. Pretty ridiculous btw that they are that high priority omg t.t
Q3. I don't see a reason to use nydus worms with this. One of the best things about it is that it scouts teh map for me, so i can stay on top of things. I can put 1 infestor and 2-3 hydras at common drop spots, and they can't be harassed anymore.
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On October 02 2010 10:23 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Thanks artosis
With competitive bingo, scrabble and date night at the retirement home how do you find time to play SC2?
thanks
PS: your zerg looks awesome! I heard you watched really good ZvT in the WCG 2007 US Finals tourney and got inspiration from there.
K BAI
I actually made a 67 point scrabble word recently. was totally awesome. i felt so genius. but ur right, its hard to find time to really play.
sadly, terran is actually good in this game, so i cant run lurkers up ramps t.t. but i do love to randomly get more ultras than t will think i should have.
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<3 Thank you Artosis!!~~
Watching through them now, hope you got your internet problems solved.
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Artosis:
I noticed in your ZvP on Steps of War you got to 200/200, then sacrificed your zerglings to make room for ultras. Did you intend to have them killed off? I really expected you to push to front once you split his forces up.
I only ask because shortly after that the real main battle starts and you're a touch tapped for cash (maybe i missed something) and your supply rapidly drops. What exactly were you trying to accomplish with that drop?
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On October 02 2010 11:24 Roaming wrote:
Artosis:
I noticed in your ZvP on Steps of War you got to 200/200, then sacrificed your zerglings to make room for ultras. Did you intend to have them killed off? I really expected you to push to front once you split his forces up.
I only ask because shortly after that the real main battle starts and you're a touch tapped for cash (maybe i missed something) and your supply rapidly drops. What exactly were you trying to accomplish with that drop?
it was a stall/make room for supply move as you thought.
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Artosis, i've only skimmed a few of your zvt's so far, and the trend has been to get hydras over mutas. i personally don't like mutas, i find they are easily countered in the early stages, and leave you open to a fast counter attack before you can build a good number of them. despite the hydra being "terrible" against terran, i like to go for a hydra build over mutas, and i don't fare too bad (lower level player). which do you think is a stronger unit to aim for?
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On October 02 2010 11:44 eLiE wrote:
Artosis, i've only skimmed a few of your zvt's so far, and the trend has been to get hydras over mutas. i personally don't like mutas, i find they are easily countered in the early stages, and leave you open to a fast counter attack before you can build a good number of them. despite the hydra being "terrible" against terran, i like to go for a hydra build over mutas, and i don't fare too bad (lower level player). which do you think is a stronger unit to aim for?
the muta is a better unit, but infestors are better than banelings, and can be made easily with hydras.
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All I have to say is thank you so much for this replay pack. I watch a lot of replays and none of them have been nearly as impressive as this replay pack. I have been bouncing between Z and T since beta and would rather play Z but fear that it may get too stale for me. However, as I've gotten higher and higher in Diamond, I realize that I'm not going to end the game in under 10 minutes vs good opponents despite all my hellions or cloaked banshees as T. This has shown me that even as T, past early game, you can get pigeon holed into a build.
Your replays were fantastic. I had to rewind several times because you were just doing too much and I couldn't believe what was happpening. Really. Thanks so much. This is the first replay pack where I was truly impressed by the player. I learned plenty.
On to some questions:
1)You opened some of the games with roaches before scouting anything. Are you just trying to mix it up or do you have a larger build order that you're working on? Does it depend on the map?
2)You got burrowed roaches in a few of the games but the opportunity to use them effectively was never available. Did you just have excess money to dump in upgrades? Were you trying to force detection?
3) I was saddened to see that you lost a game to a 4-gate on kulas. 4-gate is probably the build that is most frustrating to face for me in a ZvP. I strongly feel that it takes quite a bit more skill to defeat it than it does to execute it. Though once you counter it, you're usually golden. What is your strategy against a 4 gate?
4) Some games you send that ovie in around 20 food and most games you don't. What's the reasoning behind it?
5) Always ultras and never broodlords. Why?
6) Two of your games were against mass blink stalkers. What the hell is the answer to that? In the first game, mass forcefields allowed the stalkers to take out your third and beat you shortly after but in the second game you pulled out a clutch victory when I thought you no longer had hope. The maps that blink stalkers were used on were so tight I can't imagine what you'd have to do to beat it.
That's it for now. Thanks again. Really.
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Thanks so much for this. I love how you hid the double Spire underneath your ovie cloud in the ZvP on Desert Oasis. I've been having trouble vs. Stargate Colossus, but your build seems perfect.
Watching some of the other reps at the moment and they're fantastic.
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God, coming up clutch once again.
<3 you Artosis. :D
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Do you always go hydra infestor vs T? Are there any T builds that you wouldn't use hydra/infestor against?
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Yeah, Colossus timings are ridiculously hard to stop. Hardest thing in the game atm for zerg. There's a problem in how hard it is to do vs how hard it is to stop. I don't have great advice for you right now on the subject. Hydras stop 4warp gate easily, but then you will have a hard time with the Colossus timing. I'll get back to ya.
Appreciate it. Gogo Fruit Dealer! I'll be watching live(luckily for you guys I won't actually be there), doned in my Hawaiian pineapple necklace, and banana loin cloth.
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Artosis:
I've watched your ZvZs and I really like your Roach/Hydra/Infestor style of play.
In the opening exchanges of your Scrap Station game your opt for early Baneling compared to the Delta Quadrant game where you went for early Roaches. Does this choice depend solely on the map and whether the choke can be easily blocked?
Also, you opt to get Roach speed and Hydra range upgrades reasonably late (not as soon as they become available) is there a particular reason for this and when is a good time to start researching those upgrades?
Thank you again!!~~
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On October 02 2010 12:14 Vexx wrote:
All I have to say is thank you so much for this replay pack. I watch a lot of replays and none of them have been nearly as impressive as this replay pack. I have been bouncing between Z and T since beta and would rather play Z but fear that it may get too stale for me. However, as I've gotten higher and higher in Diamond, I realize that I'm not going to end the game in under 10 minutes vs good opponents despite all my hellions or cloaked banshees as T. This has shown me that even as T, past early game, you can get pigeon holed into a build.
Your replays were fantastic. I had to rewind several times because you were just doing too much and I couldn't believe what was happpening. Really. Thanks so much. This is the first replay pack where I was truly impressed by the player. I learned plenty.
On to some questions:
1)You opened some of the games with roaches before scouting anything. Are you just trying to mix it up or do you have a larger build order that you're working on? Does it depend on the map?
2)You got burrowed roaches in a few of the games but the opportunity to use them effectively was never available. Did you just have excess money to dump in upgrades? Were you trying to force detection?
3) I was saddened to see that you lost a game to a 4-gate on kulas. 4-gate is probably the build that is most frustrating to face for me in a ZvP. I strongly feel that it takes quite a bit more skill to defeat it than it does to execute it. Though once you counter it, you're usually golden. What is your strategy against a 4 gate?
4) Some games you send that ovie in around 20 food and most games you don't. What's the reasoning behind it?
5) Always ultras and never broodlords. Why?
6) Two of your games were against mass blink stalkers. What the hell is the answer to that? In the first game, mass forcefields allowed the stalkers to take out your third and beat you shortly after but in the second game you pulled out a clutch victory when I thought you no longer had hope. The maps that blink stalkers were used on were so tight I can't imagine what you'd have to do to beat it.
That's it for now. Thanks again. Really.
Q1. Well it matters the matchup. I like roaches zvz on delta quadrant. sometimes i open roaches randomly on Kulas Ravine, just because you have to be unpredictable there. I also am toying around with Korean style ZvP which is atm heavily roach based. Just kinda mixing it up, seeing how it goes.
Q2. I wanted to use them, but it just didn't work out. I kind of made those upgrades in the wrong place, burrow movement is only useful after certain early games.
Q3. My normal strategy is speedling into hydralisk, which can own it pretty well (except on Kulas). the problem with this is the followup colossus timing push becomes very hard to stop due to the pwnage against hydras.
Q4. I pick up little things that tell me what's going on. If i'm uncertain, the ovie lays down his life to let me know as much as he can.
Q5. I really like broodlords, but the styles im practicing right now fit in better with Ultras.
Q6. Yeah, it can be rough... against only blink stalkers you can use hydra/ling, but if they randomly tech into colossus you are in trouble. i'm not completely sure of the best counter right now, but i have some ideas, and since im finally able to practice again, ill post anotehr pack when i figure it out 
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On October 02 2010 12:27 Urth wrote:
Do you always go hydra infestor vs T? Are there any T builds that you wouldn't use hydra/infestor against?
i'm on a hydra infestor binge atm. i'm unsure at the moment what builds i will and will not use this against. i'll just play it vs everything for now, and find out all the branches of what can be done.
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On October 02 2010 12:34 Speight wrote:
Artosis:
I've watched your ZvZs and I really like your Roach/Hydra/Infestor style of play.
In the opening exchanges of your Scrap Station game your opt for early Baneling compared to the Delta Quadrant game where you went for early Roaches. Does this choice depend solely on the map and whether the choke can be easily blocked?
Also, you opt to get Roach speed and Hydra range upgrades reasonably late (not as soon as they become available) is there a particular reason for this and when is a good time to start researching those upgrades?
Thank you again!!~~
Q1. Yeah, its completely based upon the map. you need a small choke to go for roach/hydra/infestor early.
Q2. There's no need to get either upgrade until its time to move out. Hydra range is more important than roach speed, but really I don't want to spend money on either until I'm ready to go. Try to have them finish right as you move out.
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Def. checking these out. You are the man, Artosis
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
BlueK is more commonly known as Joyo artosis and Joyo was a member of the MBC coaching staff for a while iirc
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EPT
