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On October 22 2012 00:06 MiTakko wrote:
Ive been wondering, in all match ups, what is a optimal way of managing infestor energy? How many fungals and when to spam eggs, lately ive been watching streams and some times sees no fungals in zvz, just all ITs, i tend to spam eggs only zvt mech, and fungals the repair squad. Just some feedbacks, thanks
IT offer great damage output and a buffer or dps boost for your army.
I think ITs are great when attacking a base, you just have to throw some of them down and then step in with your army since your opponent is most of the tie trying to back off because ITs are so slow, so you are basically gonna get a base for free.
(of course this doesn't work vs. 6 Colossi/ Storm).
Also you can spam IT behind enemy units to trap them when you're in a choke.
Fungal imo is really useful either when you are retreating to lock down his army to not lose anything or when he is retreating, just fungle his army and run in with your units.
Use fungle when you can get off a "money-fungle" (like 20 marines at once) and IT if you can't see any big clumps of units or if you want to trap units.
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Yeah, just to add to that:
Fungals are like forcefields, best used to force an engagement (and occasionally deal a lot of damage to clumped up units, hence it being one of the most expensive spellcasters in the game.
I personally love to use IT to trap units, it's a fun micro-intensive thing to do, but fungal is better. If you're fighting in somewhere that they MUST engage, nothing like 50 ITs to win the game. For example: Protoss does a 2 base all in that fails, he techs to colo and takes a third behind sentries. Engage the third, throw down 100 IT at where his army will come from, bam GG you win bceause he's only on one base compared to your 3 (or 4).
Fungals are great against small units (as you know).
I fungal against mech to force an engagement (hooray not affected by massive) if he's trying to retreat, etc.
I'm considering neural against mech...seems useful and a good addition to a roach/infestor army.
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In Masters, what are people doing in ZvP against 4 gate +1 to fast third? I make roaches to deflect the attack but the protoss gets his third up quite safely. What are the counters to this build?
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How do you beat mech as zerg? I cant seem to do it [High Diamond player]
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hey guys,
im looking for some newer games, where a pros goes muta vs terran. i dont care if its 2base, 3base, fast lair or no gas opening. i just want to see how pros implement them into their game nowadays. references to vods and replays would be great!
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On October 22 2012 06:49 joeyBanana wrote:
hey guys,
im looking for some newer games, where a pros goes muta vs terran. i dont care if its 2base, 3base, fast lair or no gas opening. i just want to see how pros implement them into their game nowadays. references to vods and replays would be great!
I think you can find plenty of them especially from koreans. Last I checked they always tend to favor lings / banes / mutas instead of infestors from the non-koreans.
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On October 22 2012 06:53 RaiZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 06:49 joeyBanana wrote:
hey guys,
im looking for some newer games, where a pros goes muta vs terran. i dont care if its 2base, 3base, fast lair or no gas opening. i just want to see how pros implement them into their game nowadays. references to vods and replays would be great! I think you can find plenty of them especially from koreans. Last I checked they always tend to favor lings / banes / mutas instead of infestors from the non-koreans.
thank you for your quick answer, but i would prefer some specific examples, since im not that much into the scene these days.
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On October 22 2012 07:02 joeyBanana wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 06:53 RaiZ wrote:On October 22 2012 06:49 joeyBanana wrote:
hey guys,
im looking for some newer games, where a pros goes muta vs terran. i dont care if its 2base, 3base, fast lair or no gas opening. i just want to see how pros implement them into their game nowadays. references to vods and replays would be great! I think you can find plenty of them especially from koreans. Last I checked they always tend to favor lings / banes / mutas instead of infestors from the non-koreans. thank you for your quick answer, but i would prefer some specific examples, since im not that much into the scene these days.
http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls4/vod/70633 Keen vs sniper
http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls4/vod/70640 Taeja vs Life
http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls4/vod/70620 Symbol vs MVP
Hope it helps.
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Why does IdrA (I don't know if any other high level players are doing it also, not watching streams lately) place his baneling nest there?
http://img165.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=861022809_baneling_122_489lo.JPG
It is not a full wall-in for a ling run-by. I would really appreciate if anyone gives me the answer, the question is stuck into my head and it seems that I can not sleep now. 
Thanks in advance
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On October 22 2012 08:14 Umuryum wrote:Why does IdrA (I don't know if any other high level players are doing it also, not watching streams lately) place his baneling nest there? http://img165.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=861022809_baneling_122_489lo.JPGIt is not a full wall-in for a ling run-by. I would really appreciate if anyone gives me the answer, the question is stuck into my head and it seems that I can not sleep now. Thanks in advance
I believe its so queen can sit between bling nest and hatch during ling runby to reduce surface area letting fewer lings get through. Also u can put 2 roaches or some banelings in the hole between ramp and bling nest so no lings can run straight through. It also trolls their AI a little bit cuz if u tell lings to run up the ramp theyll get caught in that hole where u want them to be (u have roaches or bling there)
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Any links with BOs for ZvT all-ins?
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Id like to see how zergs defend a gas first reactor push with 4x mines. You can see it coming because you can have a ling on the map but they can litterally just run past your front door and burrow in your mineral lines. 4x mines thats 320 hp. They also move about same exact speed as slow lings so dont expect them to stop the little buggers.
4x queens dpsing down a mine and it will still get past, a spine +4 queens and no doubt at least 2 mines get past. Once theyre in your mineral line burrowed theyve easily paid for themselves and terran doesnt have to micro at all and theyre amazingly cost effective, you basically lost the game at that point.
So how to prevent them running past? I dont know offhand when they get to your front ramp but its shortly after your 3rd 4th queen pop out. You will probly not have ling speed by then with a hatch first build, maybe u will with a hatch gas pool.
Biggest issue is on maps like that one with rocks blocking the way to 3rd base and u cant get your 1st overlord to scout if he went CC first or gas first or not.
To get a spine, a spore, pull extra queens for dps, any slow lings u make, and evos to help finish the wall off in the natural THAT early holy crap ur way behind. When normally 3 queens can fight off the hellions as you retreat drones for a short while. A spine and the gas first hellions are shut down hard. So what to do vs this rather fast unit that can kill queens in 2 hits, kill 8+ lings in 1 hit. Jeeze.
Im gunna ignore the fact they can just drop mines out of a dropship cuz i've got enough headache as it is. But let me know what u guys think.
Asking this question to people who actually play beta, no need to theory craft too much without playing it 
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On October 22 2012 12:25 HelloSon wrote:
Any links with BOs for ZvT all-ins?
I don't have a link, but I have a fun, generality of a build. This is not refined.
The current meta game for terran is a hellion banshee opening always. Even if they are transitioning to mech instead of bio, it is still the same opening. I've been trying out this build which is pretty fun and effective. I don't know if this has already been used or if it has been effective but I thought I would tell you.
It's a roach/queen all-in with a nydus at the terran's front. Banshee-Hellion gets ripped apart by roach-queen. The nydus just helps move the queens to front and make reinforcing faster. When you nydus, do it in a safe spot, even if it's a little far away from the front. You can try to get the nydus in the main after you get your units at the front.
Open 4 queen standard on 2 bases, and then get 3 gas after both your bases are saturated(16 on each base). Use your gas in this order: Lair, +1 Range Attack, Roach Speed(obv build a warren before), Nydus. You should be constantly building queens and roaches. It's okay to build a spore at both bases for the banshees. Make sure you build an overseer at the front so you can see cloaked banshees. Also, don't be afraid to drop more nyduses.
+1 carapace could be more effective as well, but I don't know.
Then after you have the nydus up with the roaches and queens out, most likely, you will be able to kill them.
Banshees and Hellions are harass units, they do not do well against a straight up attack. Goodluck! It's fun.
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On October 22 2012 13:42 HighLach wrote:I don't have a link, but I have a fun, generality of a build. This is not refined. The current meta game for terran is a hellion banshee opening always. Even if they are transitioning to mech instead of bio, it is still the same opening. I've been trying out this build which is pretty fun and effective. I don't know if this has already been used or if it has been effective but I thought I would tell you. It's a roach/queen all-in with a nydus at the terran's front. Banshee-Hellion gets ripped apart by roach-queen. The nydus just helps move the queens to front and make reinforcing faster. When you nydus, do it in a safe spot, even if it's a little far away from the front. You can try to get the nydus in the main after you get your units at the front. Open 4 queen standard on 2 bases, and then get 3 gas after both your bases are saturated(16 on each base). Use your gas in this order: Lair, +1 Range Attack, Roach Speed(obv build a warren before), Nydus. You should be constantly building queens and roaches. It's okay to build a spore at both bases for the banshees. Make sure you build an overseer at the front so you can see cloaked banshees. Also, don't be afraid to drop more nyduses. +1 carapace could be more effective as well, but I don't know. Then after you have the nydus up with the roaches and queens out, most likely, you will be able to kill them. Banshees and Hellions are harass units, they do not do well against a straight up attack. Goodluck! It's fun.
I REALLY like this idea haha, im definitely going to be using it <3. 1 tumor at the front so it looks like im spreading creep then safe rest for transfuse. Quick +1 armor from evo timed out for when the push happens. And a lair+nydus timed out so i can have 16 on each mineral line, 3 gas and then pump about 16 roaches. So double gas maybe around 36 supply ish maybe little earlier.
I will come back with results within a few days.
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Any tips on how to wall in for zergs?
Usually I would use 2 evo chambers in my natural to block but lings sometimes are able to run past them. Maybe any solutions involving spines? Should i be walling in with some other buildings?
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On October 22 2012 05:48 HelloSon wrote:
In Masters, what are people doing in ZvP against 4 gate +1 to fast third? I make roaches to deflect the attack but the protoss gets his third up quite safely. What are the counters to this build?
there is no real counter to this build. anyway, I've heard that going straight to muta after the pressure is very strong against this style.
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On October 22 2012 07:29 RaiZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 07:02 joeyBanana wrote:On October 22 2012 06:53 RaiZ wrote:On October 22 2012 06:49 joeyBanana wrote:
hey guys,
im looking for some newer games, where a pros goes muta vs terran. i dont care if its 2base, 3base, fast lair or no gas opening. i just want to see how pros implement them into their game nowadays. references to vods and replays would be great! I think you can find plenty of them especially from koreans. Last I checked they always tend to favor lings / banes / mutas instead of infestors from the non-koreans. thank you for your quick answer, but i would prefer some specific examples, since im not that much into the scene these days. http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls4/vod/70633 Keen vs sniper http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls4/vod/70640 Taeja vs Life http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls4/vod/70620 Symbol vs MVP Hope it helps.
thx bro!
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http://drop.sc/266943
I hate my life. I am so clueless in ZvP that it's sad. I deny a third base from my opponent until 16 min while I have 4 bases, and then I try to get 3/3 broods, but I neural parasite 2 seconds too early = losing 13k resources and 100 supply in one second. How do I kill the protoss before this ridiculous herp derp mothership broodlord stuff? Someone please help me with where I should have attacked when, and with what composition to end the game before mothership, as I said, I am clueless in ZvP.
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On October 22 2012 05:48 HelloSon wrote:
In Masters, what are people doing in ZvP against 4 gate +1 to fast third? I make roaches to deflect the attack but the protoss gets his third up quite safely. What are the counters to this build?
This is a pretty good build. You have to keep just the right balance of units to drones to counteract this; it also depends what you're going for long-term. If you are going for roach max and he doesn't slow you down too much, you should be able to get enough units to kill him. If you're going the typical meta ling/roach/festor into BL style, then just take your 4th, spine up, and go for BL. Defend as well as you can vs any pushes.
The 4gate +1 build is tough to defend perfectly because it's pretty tough to differentiate this from a 7gate build, so you need to do your best to read it and not overmake units. If you do overmake, you can try to pressure his 3rd after killing his push to catch back up since your drone production will have slowed. And although it's tough, REALLY try to keep up on your upgrades/tech while the push is coming; that means roach speed, ling speed, and infestation pit while the push is happening. If you don't tech properly and he gets his 3rd up, you're behind.
I think the typical meta goes something like 4gate +1 into 3rd into 3base colossi push into mothership/deathball. The game is determined by how much damage you take at each stage, more or less. The 3base colossi push is defended with ling/a few roach/festor/spine/some corruptors, and BL's should be pretty close to on the way at this point.
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On October 23 2012 02:02 Zheryn wrote:http://drop.sc/266943I hate my life. I am so clueless in ZvP that it's sad. I deny a third base from my opponent until 16 min while I have 4 bases, and then I try to get 3/3 broods, but I neural parasite 2 seconds too early = losing 13k resources and 100 supply in one second. How do I kill the protoss before this ridiculous herp derp mothership broodlord stuff? Someone please help me with where I should have attacked when, and with what composition to end the game before mothership, as I said, I am clueless in ZvP.
You are already making that annoying lategame ZvP quite unlikely by going for the early max-out. This is probably (still) the strongest way to end it in the midgame. You are doing it with only three gas instead of four (might have been an error); if you think that works for you, go for it, but in this game you had over-saturation at your third for quite some time so you could have a taken a gas there without losing many minerals. Also, if you are mixing roaches and lings, consider upgrading carapace instead of ranged attack.
So, if you deny his third with your close to 200/200 army, you should be looking to do more than just keeping him on two bases. Specifically on Ohana, you should put a part of your army into a second control group and pressure the front door, too. That makes it so much harder for Protoss to always forcefield correctly since he has to watch two chokes.
Generally, if you get really ahead against a two-base protoss (basically the point when a high-level game ends with a "gg", but many ladder protosses decide to stick around), you want to get mutas. That way you force him to get stuff that he doesn't already have (cannons, blink, storm), which he can't afford on two bases.
I also noticed you could have won the game by running up the ramp at 12:30 because the sentry energy was depleted at that point, but that wasn't easy to see in game, I suppose.
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EPT
