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In a perfect world, where the banshees fly right into your trap of 3 queens and an overseer, yeah the 2 banshees won't get very far. It rarely happens this way. Usually, one or two of the queens will be out of position. If you don't have your corner of the map all creeped out, it'll be a while before all the queens will be in one spot. With cloaked banshees, queens are usually one of my first targets. Good chance you will lose one queen before you even have the overseer in position. Still it's a close match and either side could come out ahead, depending on micro skills.
If you have scouting problems, that's a whole 'nother issue. Zerg has the advantage of just floating in, take the chance and hope for some good intel before marine response.
Another advantage of putting up spores is this isn't likely going to be the last time you'll see banshees. A couple well-placed spores could be enough AA defense to last you a long time. I know that if I'm going banshees and I start seeing spores going up, I'm likely to adjust my strategy to include less banshee. Plus evo chamber isn't exactly useless early on and I don't see the lack of skill in placing spores, or missile turrets for that matter.
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Most important aspect to stopping this is scouting. You should have an overlord just outside of the terran main ready to scout.. in every game. A 3rd queen is always a good idea, effective vs. hellions, effective vs.banshees, and useful for creep spread or to spawn larva on the eventual 3rd base. Spore-crawlers can be good for detection but by the time 2 cloaked banshees arrive a muta build should be close to popping out 3-5. Which is plenty to scare off banshees.
I'll usually do some sort of a two-base muta build against terran anyway, so i wouldn't call this a blind counter. After he sees mutas, the terran's army becomes predictable. Maybe some thor's, lots of marines. Success in the mid-to-late game is all scouting. Knowing when you can drone, and knowing when you have to morph banelings.
I'm not trying to suggest that its an easy matchup, but this is what i'm aiming for vs. most terrans.
Cannot underline enough the role scouting plays. At all points in the game.
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I think 1 spore at each mineral line is totally worth it. It prevents any further harassment of your mineral line. If you don't put one there, you'll have to bring an overseer and 2 queens to each expo every 3 minutes because of constant harassment.
EDIT: Of course I mean put 1 spore only after you know they have banshees with cloak. Never put a spore up "just because" they might get banshees.
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On September 29 2010 04:06 Battlescore wrote:
Yes I mean overseer, mis-type.
However, as a 1200 terran who almost always uses Banshees against zerg, what usually stops me dead in my tracks are spore crawlers, but I usually wait until I have 3 banshees to push. Please by all means, recommend zerg players don't put up spores, it makes things way easier for me because then all I'm having to worry about is overseer/mutas.
If you're a good zerg, you probably have already scouted the terran base. I contest that if you KNOW banshees are coming, don't make a queen, make spores. They are effective in at least keeping my banshees away. I don't really want to sacrifice my banshees trying to take down a spore but I'll do it for a queen because it's one less unit for my bioball to worry about and it's a useful unit for zerg. Plus, having spores means you can have your overseer perform other duties, such as support your army.
So you're telling me I should preemptively waste a minimum of 4 drones on spore crawlers on the off chance that banshees are coming? Terran can keep starport/tech lab from being scouted so easily it's not even funny.
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1 spore + 1 queen per base works well. I find it's much more effective than having to rush lair and overseer. Queens outrange banshees, and spore can detect at 11 radius, which makes it virtually impossible for banshees to do serious damage when you have a queen and a spore. Rushing to overseer just makes a person more vulnerable to a early attack like marine-marauder, marine-hellion, marauder-hellion, marauder-reaper, marine-tank, etc.
Yes, it does get a comprehensive scout of the opponent earlier, but you won't get to scout until they already have a banshee out and cloak and another banshee can be in progress. With only 1 overseer you also need to worry about split groups of banshees. Without speed upgrade, banshees are much faster than overseers, and even with speed upgrade banshees are the same speed as overseers. This makes it impossible to defend 2 cloaked banshees with only 1 overseer.
I find generally if you have an overlord on each side of their base and choose to either sacrifice 1 or none (depending how far you move in), you can get ENOUGH information to make a reasonable assumption of what they are doing, without needing an overseer so early on.
However, I am not saying zerg isn't totally screwed vs terran when it comes to scouting though, because I do still believe that, it's just i feel overlords are the best way to cope as opposed to rushing overseer.
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Spores help until they get a critical mass of banshees. Against a few, having a nice meaty target to transfuse really helps.
The best defense is just getting hydras or mutas though. However that never happens in time 
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Playing some spore crawlers is absolutely no bad idea to defend against banshees for everyone learning the game because at the beginning its not easy to solve this situation with queens alone!
Banshees and VoidRays are these nightmare units where you u can loose to only one unit killing everything pretty early on. Its less frustrating to loose to a 200 supply army thats better than to these units just because u didnt expect them to be there that fast.
Its easier for most players to set up some spore crawlers and have the feeling to be safe.
This helps a lot getting better in all other aspects of the game and being able to concentrate on the fundementals of zerg not so much worrying about the banshees all the time.
I think its good to know that u can be safe with only queens when u get better at the game though.
Hope to get a queen master myself in the future to kill all this flying nightmares 
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what if you the z doesnt see the starport? like hidden ones or something.
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On November 24 2010 13:51 valeron90 wrote:
what if you the z doesnt see the starport? like hidden ones or something.
then you lose
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If I see two early gas from terran I automatically get at least two queens per expansion and one overseer at each. Bonus: queens help a lot against hellions.
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Scouting early double gas in the beginning is the real clue to scouting banshee's. They can't hide that from you. You won't know 100% until you see the starport with tech lab, but there is very good chance he's going banshee's if he opens with double gas and mineral heavy harassment (marines/hellions).
I think a lot of people are underestimating how big of an annoyance banshee's are to deal with as well as how much it costs to invest in banshee's for terran. It causes a lot of losses right away. I find it very hard to outmicro him with just queens and overseers (trying to stay on top of injects, transfusions, spreading creep, and protecting drones/spire.) Most of the time I go queens (3-4 of them,) I get my spire sniped and then they mass produce banshee's while I'm trying to mass produce queens. Once they get 4-5 banshee's it's a gg for me. In any situation, if you can get your spire up with minimal losses, you are fine. But I find this much easier to do with spore's than queens.
Remember, you should be ahead in drones at this point. I will gladly give up 4 drones and 300 min to HELP protect against cloaked banshee's (they've invested 200/200 just in cloak). If they have already done economic damage with hellions/marines, you are pretty much limited to queens/overseers otherwise the push after banshee's will be too much to hold off.
I think just like in every other SC scenario, there is a time and place for both. If you have mastered the queen/overseer method, go ahead and use that because it is more economical in the long run.
I watch a lot of pro reactions to banshee harassment, and a lot of zergs opt for spores. They don't go crazy, but they will put 1-4 spore's at their lines (1-2 at each base). They also make sure to position their spire next to one of these spore's.
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The fastest cloaked banshee rush doesn't get 2nd gas until his fact is building, so I'm not sure how you plan on gathering banshee from 1 refinery and a factory. Could just as easily be fast tank fast expand to deter banelings busts.
If u get ling speed before lair you won't have an overseer in time to stop the cloak.
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lol, i often steal his gas, its quite irritating when terrans beat me cos they got this aircraft that can kill everything
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EPT
