EPT[G] Fighting Muta/Ling as Toss - Page 3
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gerundium
Netherlands786 Posts
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rockon1215
United States612 Posts
Needs to be added to liquipedia if not already | ||
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tetramaster
Canada253 Posts
On September 12 2010 01:02 gerundium wrote: except archons < mutalisk spread trick (2 archons beat a large group of mutas, not so much if they do not stack.) Storm them then. Mutalisks that are spread out like that can't focus fire very well, so the instant you see them spread out like that, storm the bastards and keep on attacking their base. They'll be forced to flee or risk taking terrible terrible damage. If you don't have storm, then switch the archon off of attacking mutas and on to attacking 'lings, and have your stalkers focus down the mutalisks. | ||
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Saracen
United States5139 Posts
On September 12 2010 01:02 gerundium wrote: except archons < mutalisk spread trick (2 archons beat a large group of mutas, not so much if they do not stack.) Not true. Spreading doesn't really do much against archons because their splash radius is really big, especially compared to the thor's. The only thing spreading does is make sure all your 30+ mutas don't die to like 4 archons. But it still doesn't make them cost-effective at all versus archons. | ||
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RoarMan
Canada745 Posts
On September 12 2010 01:09 Saracen wrote: Not true. Spreading doesn't really do much against archons because their splash radius is really big, especially compared to the thor's. The only thing spreading does is make sure all your 30+ mutas don't die to like 4 archons. But it still doesn't make them cost-effective at all versus archons. Yea Archon splash still is bigger then the Thors so spread doesn't do much, I mean it helps but doesn't eliminate it completely. Archons are also cost efficient against EVERY AND ANY Zerg unit ( Brood Lord, Ultra, Roaches, You Name it), they should really be looked into  | ||
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aLt)nirvana
Singapore846 Posts
sit in base with mass stalkers and prevent harrass till you get a critical mass and blink into his base pass all his sunkens. dont build anything else you dont need it. with good blink micro, a mass of stalkers with chronoed upgrades own ling/muta 2nd time playing mysticprime ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-148204.jpg) | ||
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Whiplash
United States2928 Posts
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Hasire
United States125 Posts
If I see no robo supportbay [hell, you're not even getting a robo for a while], I am in one of the best positions I can hope to be in: I can make Hydra/Roach. Hydra/Roach is almost unbeatable for Toss without Collosi and if I cut back on muta [making no more than 8-12 in a game], I will have a huge ammount of extra gas to play with. Once the creep starts moving, Z will gain complete control of the game easily taking a 3rd and actually applying offensive pressure. Z uses mutas for 2 reasons: 1) ChronoBoosted probes nearly match 1base droning, without Harass Z's econ will fall behind 2) Muta are pivitol towards sniping collosi before a critical number is reached [~3] What is left over from this opening is minerals and larva. Even with 4 gas you can't spend all your larva and minerals on Muta, so Z makes their mineral unit. The issue I am seeing with your play is that it is attempting to sidestep collosi play entirely, staying completely on gateway play. This is exactly what Z wants. Hydra completely destroy gateway play, even with storm out due to roaches. The only way I could see you surviving is through perfect force fielding, but with so much gas in HT/Archons, Storm, Stalkers, Blink and Hallucination your sentry count will be hurt. | ||
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bjornkavist
Canada1235 Posts
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blahman3344
United States2015 Posts
In your FE section, it reminded me of the parallels that can be drawn between BW and SC2. Phoenixes serve essentially the same role as corsairs in an FE build, hehe. ^^ | ||
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geek0
Denmark32 Posts
no this is not flame.. i think this could be said so much more concisely | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
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Thrasymachus725
Canada527 Posts
On September 12 2010 08:04 Cyber_Cheese wrote: ultras are not countered by stalkers, infestation pit is a requirement for lair, and a fungal growth or two ruins any chance of stalkers being useful vs them Stalkers do a mighty fine job at countering Ultralisks... IF there is a wall between the Ultralisks and the Stalkers. The moment the Ultralisks can get some shots off on the Stalkers, then it is over. But a line of Zealots and a couple Archons can allow the Stalkers enough time to focus fire them down. Remember that if there are Archons, there are HT with Feedback. | ||
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kidijs
Latvia40 Posts
I've been writing articles online for about three years now, and I'll tell you this: very few people would read this article if it wasn't a thing that really interests them. Also, maybe make the paragraphs a bit shorter? Remember that good reading is hard writing (put the reader's gain above your writer's ego! you aren't writing a book here!). As for the guide itself: good work. I really needed ideas on how to counter them flying bastards. Also, any ideas on wat do in far positions? I think warp prism harass could work, because most PvZs are 3gate robo anyways. | ||
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Thrasymachus725
Canada527 Posts
On September 13 2010 06:20 kidijs wrote: If you are attending a writing course, you should know that the fewer words, the better. I've been writing articles online for about three years now, and I'll tell you this: very few people would read this article if it wasn't a thing that really interests them. Also, maybe make the paragraphs a bit shorter? Remember that good reading is hard writing (put the reader's gain above your writer's ego! you aren't writing a book here!). As for the guide itself: good work. I really needed ideas on how to counter them flying bastards. Also, any ideas on wat do in far positions? I think warp prism harass could work, because most PvZs are 3gate robo anyways. Yeah, I know it is a little long winded... Trying to keep the ideas memorable enough to recall in a game so... Well for all those who have the fortitude to read through it, I hope they found at least a good sentence or two in there... In far positions when fighting Muta/Ling, you actually have the advantage... When you attack the Zerg, he will be forced to fly all his Mutalisks back to defend earlier... this means he has less time to do damage in your base before the attack. When he hits your base, the best way to get rid of the Mutas as fast as possible is to hit HIS base. ESPECIALLY at cross positions. I don't recommend warp prisms, because for the most part, I don't recommend a Robotics Facility against Muta/Ling... When you make a forward Pylon, make sure it is as close to his base as possible... The further the way from your army the Pylon is, the more vulnerable it is to flanking Zerglings and focusing Mutalisks. | ||
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kidijs
Latvia40 Posts
As for not getting a robo, well, that sounds pretty reasonable. I guess if you lose to mutas when they come back you have too sloppy macro. Hallucination is an awesome spell, and indeed a lot cheaper than 250/200 for a robo+obs. | ||
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iSiN
United States1075 Posts
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St. Fu
United States75 Posts
On September 14 2010 12:31 iSiN wrote: The only problem I see with this is the part about Archon's countering mutas if you force them to engage. Stronger players are going to abuse magic box like they do VS Thors in ZvT nullifying their splash Someone has all ready pointed this out, and the counterpoint has all ready been made. The archon splash area is much bigger than the thors, so the magic box is less effective. Archons are cost effective vs mutas stacking or not. | ||
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LilClinkin
Australia667 Posts
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GoooN
217 Posts
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