|
in case u missed out my plexa buddy, zealots sentries immo was the most famous build back in beta phase 1. what is wrong with it in phase 2 and the current situation is (are):
1/marines heavy: combatshield + stim with more than 1 control group is good enough to counter this build, you simply run the marines in, split then into 2 groups left and right so FF and zealots becomes useless and stim up. there might be 1 or 2 marauders but mostly marines will screw you over.
2/ air tech: robo tech has a huge giant ass hard counter which is air tech. for sure you got your obs to scout what he is doing but with the mobility of medivac and marauder sniping buildings? your immortal wont be able to do anything except tanky your nature while your main is getting wiped out by 4 marauders....
3/ refreshing army: immotral unlike wrap tech takes lots of time to produced. b4 you have 2 or 3, 1 immortal cant do anything no matter how much wrap tech unit you have. veteran Terran i have played with is push b4 you get your 2nd immo out (also the timing b4 the fastest colossi got out). What happen is that they will do their best to stim and snipe the immortal and using racks macro to out produce you. Surprise how slow immortal production is compare to infantry units.
=> the build is definitely viable but should only be used vs some certain Terran build, otherwise dont use it!
|
I like how more insightful strategy discussion is going on in blogs than in the actual strategy forum... 
|
On September 11 2010 14:21 Saracen wrote:I like how more insightful strategy discussion is going on in blogs than in the actual strategy forum...
haha yeah, not surprising though 
I feel like fewer of the sc2 gold league players check blogs.
edit: just a feeling...<3
|
On September 11 2010 15:14 Dog22 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 14:21 Saracen wrote:I like how more insightful strategy discussion is going on in blogs than in the actual strategy forum... haha yeah, not surprising though I feel like fewer of the sc2 gold league players check blogs. edit: just a feeling...<3
Oh, it's more than a feeling...
+ Show Spoiler +When I hear that old song they used to playyyyyy + Show Spoiler +I begin dreaminnnnnnnn' 'Til I see Marianne walk awayyyyyyyyy
|
On September 11 2010 15:27 Saracen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 15:14 Dog22 wrote:On September 11 2010 14:21 Saracen wrote:I like how more insightful strategy discussion is going on in blogs than in the actual strategy forum... haha yeah, not surprising though I feel like fewer of the sc2 gold league players check blogs. edit: just a feeling...<3 Oh, it's more than a feeling... + Show Spoiler +When I hear that old song they used to playyyyyy + Show Spoiler +I begin dreaminnnnnnnn' 'Til I see Marianne walk awayyyyyyyyy
love that song  haven't heard it in a while, thanks saracen
|
wow I was actually thinking about this composition about a week ago, but because I'm not a very active player, I didn't get around to trying it out. Nice to see it does in fact work; can't wait to try it out.
|
On September 11 2010 14:21 Saracen wrote:I like how more insightful strategy discussion is going on in blogs than in the actual strategy forum...
Tell me about it. I just find it so backwards that more visible effort goes into most of the blog posts than anything seen on the SC2 forums. Until there's some kind of crackdown and TL stops letting every player and their dog post their hair-brained ideas on how to "fix" StarCraft 2, I'm not even gonna bother with that entire subsection. Finding the half decent posts between the 30 TvX imba and "Zerglings should be able to jump up cliffs!" topics is too much of a slog.
|
infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
ooh I thought the post would be in strategy but it was hiding in here!
If you guys want to see the games from my perspective, you can find it here
I tried to stick with MMM and tweak it in small ways but not mess with it a whole lot.
I think adding in ghosts would be a good response against plexa's composition (probably the only available to me). The hardest thing for me was watching my army at all times because plexa would just walk up to it and trap it with FF. If I had a stronger army at the time, great, if not, I lose.
|
On September 11 2010 17:26 infinity21 wrote:ooh I thought the post would be in strategy but it was hiding in here! If you guys want to see the games from my perspective, you can find it hereI tried to stick with MMM and tweak it in small ways but not mess with it a whole lot. I think adding in ghosts would be a good response against plexa's composition (probably the only available to me). The hardest thing for me was watching my army at all times because plexa would just walk up to it and trap it with FF. If I had a stronger army at the time, great, if not, I lose.
thx
|
Aotearoa39261 Posts
Moved to strategy, hope that wasn't a dumb move on my part
On September 11 2010 01:40 NB wrote:
in case u missed out my plexa buddy, zealots sentries immo was the most famous build back in beta phase 1. what is wrong with it in phase 2 and the current situation is (are):
1/marines heavy: combatshield + stim with more than 1 control group is good enough to counter this build, you simply run the marines in, split then into 2 groups left and right so FF and zealots becomes useless and stim up. there might be 1 or 2 marauders but mostly marines will screw you over.
2/ air tech: robo tech has a huge giant ass hard counter which is air tech. for sure you got your obs to scout what he is doing but with the mobility of medivac and marauder sniping buildings? your immortal wont be able to do anything except tanky your nature while your main is getting wiped out by 4 marauders....
3/ refreshing army: immotral unlike wrap tech takes lots of time to produced. b4 you have 2 or 3, 1 immortal cant do anything no matter how much wrap tech unit you have. veteran Terran i have played with is push b4 you get your 2nd immo out (also the timing b4 the fastest colossi got out). What happen is that they will do their best to stim and snipe the immortal and using racks macro to out produce you. Surprise how slow immortal production is compare to infantry units.
=> the build is definitely viable but should only be used vs some certain Terran build, otherwise dont use it! I agree with this mostly, 3. is an illusion created by the warpgate mechanic 1&2 are valid. I still want to try it against other strategies - like marine/ghost etc - and see if its a hard counter, or just a soft counter (or if its an even fight), and try things like adding a stargate against banshee heavy play (and see how phoenix/zeal/sentry/1-2 immo go). But any unit composition that relies heavily on marauders or tanks should get eaten by this.
Also keep in mind the original game transitioned out of this composition really early on and moved into Colossus/Stalker/Sentry - which (I'm sure you'll agree) completely eats Marine heavy strategies (except perhaps banshee/marine... dno about that one yet ). So if you come into this build with the mindset to be flexible, and react to what the Terran is doing, then I'm 99% sure you'll be fine.
|
LOVE it! Finally someone officially trying/writing up the fast imm/zealot build vs T. I've been trying to perfect it as well and i believe you got it figured out with the sentries! I had never though about adding sentries, i was just pure chargelot/immortal. Thanks for the awesome writeup!
|
I've been playing PvT zealot/immortal/high templar for a while now. Basically your goal as Protoss should be to NEVER build a single stalker ever. They're making Banshees? Build a few stalkers to be safe while your stargate builds and you get a few phoenixes? They're building marauders? Build immortals-- sure, they're not great versus marauders, but they're better than craptastic stalkers, etc. maintain a +1 attack advantage to make them even better.
I gate/robo/obs (FE if they 1-1-1 or... against pretty much everything that isnt hyper-aggressive), twilight council, add more gates, fast charge, then HTs. If I lose obs I throw down enough stalkers to deal with a banshee threat. I never seem to lose in straight fights and all my recent losses have been to intense Terran drops.
But yeah early game I zealot/sentry/couple immortals into expo. Fast charge is great you just need to force them, as best as you can, into a situation where kiting is hard.
Once you get blink this changes a tiny bit, but not really. Stalkers are just garbagetastic unless you can blink like kiwikaki.
I've also been desperately trying a phoenix opening that maintains aerial superiority (versus vikings somewhat not-cost effectively) into an FE into a zealot (hopefully with charge) collosi/phoenix push.
|
My TvP build would own this
So yes it's viable, if they go marauders
|
what if he goes 1/1/1 because each time he went bio ball instead of factory/starport units.
|
Very nice build. Consider incorporating a quick +1 armor upgrade into the build to better hedge your strategy against marine-heavy compositions.
|
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On September 12 2010 01:05 Apexplayer wrote:
My TvP build would own this
So yes it's viable, if they go marauders Thanks for contributing to the discussion.
On September 12 2010 01:15 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
what if he goes 1/1/1 because each time he went bio ball instead of factory/starport units. 1-1-1 into tank/raven isn't an issue for this, zeals eat rines, immortals eat tanks, sentries lol at ravens but anyway, you get the idea. 1-1-1 into banshee would be annoying, I'm thinking that mixing in phoenix is the best idea but I'm not sure. Like I said, if you scout banshee you can easily transition out of this unit composition to react in the way you know best - but this composition means you won't die to a quick marauder push or any kind of 3rax mumbojumbo.
On September 12 2010 01:28 xDaunt wrote:
Very nice build. Consider incorporating a quick +1 armor upgrade into the build to better hedge your strategy against marine-heavy compositions. I would still prefer +1 weaps since it makes a big difference on the sentries (kills marines in one less shot for instance), and +1 amour doesn't help with the shields
|
Aotearoa39261 Posts
|
hasuobs is using it against demuslim right now...looks pretty good
edit: damn :D
|
Aotearoa39261 Posts
And Hasu fell into the exact same trap that I did in game 1 against infinity irony!
|
With all those sentries I'd love to see at least one guardian shield up :D
i watched the last one since you recommended it and it was a good game strat seems pretty solid even with some mistakes (i'd have plenty more im sure) it still worked out well.
i loved the hidden expo at bottom really saved you there
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
