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On August 31 2010 15:13 iEchoic wrote:
5rr isn't hard to stop. You can just build a bunker or repair the wall. I'm kind of mystified by the fear of the 5rr - I've had it happen to me many many times my last few games and all I have to do is repair the wall + shoot. I lose a couple scvs max.
That said, any strategy that relies on HSM will not work, because anyone who knows you have HSM will just move away from it. It's too slow.
infestors are pretty slow, though im not quite sure if they're as slow as HSM. but in any case if their infestors are running away from HSM then they can't fungal your marines which to me is the biggest problem of fighting Z with pure bio.
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On August 31 2010 16:39 rauk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2010 15:13 iEchoic wrote:
5rr isn't hard to stop. You can just build a bunker or repair the wall. I'm kind of mystified by the fear of the 5rr - I've had it happen to me many many times my last few games and all I have to do is repair the wall + shoot. I lose a couple scvs max.
That said, any strategy that relies on HSM will not work, because anyone who knows you have HSM will just move away from it. It's too slow. infestors are pretty slow, though im not quite sure if they're as slow as HSM. but in any case if their infestors are running away from HSM then they can't fungal your marines which to me is the biggest problem of fighting Z with pure bio.
HSM has bad range as well as being slow. An infestor could run up, fungal your marines before the HSM hits (if it even does), and they'd have served their life's purpose even if they get obliterated afterwards. Imagine 3 infestors running up 1 by 1 and fungaling. Are you going to waste 3 HSMs 1-by-1 just to kill infestors that are already out of energy and killed all your marines? 1 HSM per infestor isn't even efficient if it hits before they cast (your 200 gas unit can only cast 1HSM at a time), let alone if it hits afterwards.
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I have to agreen with previous posters. Dont get why the HSM would be useful except for harassing idle groups, but then your raven gets eaten by mutas cause he's alone. PDD on the other hand...
IMO the best answer for zerg against this build is some combo of infester, roach, hydra & baneling. Roaches in front, hydra arch in the back and bling flank after FG. Hydras finish of raven that is FG'd.
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On August 31 2010 16:46 iEchoic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2010 16:39 rauk wrote:On August 31 2010 15:13 iEchoic wrote:
5rr isn't hard to stop. You can just build a bunker or repair the wall. I'm kind of mystified by the fear of the 5rr - I've had it happen to me many many times my last few games and all I have to do is repair the wall + shoot. I lose a couple scvs max.
That said, any strategy that relies on HSM will not work, because anyone who knows you have HSM will just move away from it. It's too slow. infestors are pretty slow, though im not quite sure if they're as slow as HSM. but in any case if their infestors are running away from HSM then they can't fungal your marines which to me is the biggest problem of fighting Z with pure bio. HSM has bad range as well as being slow. An infestor could run up, fungal your marines before the HSM hits (if it even does), and they'd have served their life's purpose even if they get obliterated afterwards. Imagine 3 infestors running up 1 by 1 and fungaling. Are you going to waste 3 HSMs 1-by-1 just to kill infestors that are already out of energy and killed all your marines? 1 HSM per infestor isn't even efficient if it hits before they cast (your 200 gas unit can only cast 1HSM at a time), let alone if it hits afterwards.
it's not like i keep my ravens with my army. im not exactly worried about ravens getting sniped by mutas or hydras due to hsm or pdd respectively so i can keep my ravens over his army. i got them fungal'd and killed with ITs in one game but that's because i forgot to actually research HSM so my ravens were just hovering there doing nothing. besides, making mass marine means you don't have a constant gas sink other than upgrades, so you can afford to make a ton of medivac/raven.
ideally i would hit an infestor surrounded by a bunch of lings and banelings at his rally. i guess it requires a lot more micro and map control to make it work against aggressive zergs, but i think it would just come down to whoever had better multitasking.
cibron: pdd completely neutralizes hydras so he's only really attacking with roaches. now you have a significantly lower roach count because you spent your gas on banelings/infestors/hydras, so i think in that situation the marines would just micro around the roaches due to superior range and stim. it's something to test out in unit tester for sure i guess.
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HSM is kind of cheesy. If anyone knew you were doing this strategy, they'd just send infestors 1-by-1 at your marines. You can choose between wasting an HSM on one unit, or losing all your marines to fungal. Or just make mutas and attack your ravens, and when you hsm, just run. Making a raven use HSM is almost as good as killing it. It becomes worthless.
HSM is garbage. I appreciate you trying to use it because I think it's fun and really awesome, but unfortunately, it is garbage. I wish it wasn't so.
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i find that infestors are pretty much the lynchpin of fighting bio zvt. kill them and pretty much anything else z wants to do is suddenly a whole lot less scary. if you look at it from that angle trading your raven for an infestor doesn't seem that bad.
plus sending infestors one by one at a marine ball sounds terrible if you have any sort of map awareness at all. yes growth has more range than marines but cmon you have a fucking flying detector and you shouldn't be surprised by a single infestor just waltzing up to your marines.
\O_o/
it's worked for me so far. guess i haven't been playing zergs who weren't clueless.
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I may be wrong but I believe HSM's are 100% accurate if their within 2 range. Perhaps because you have so many ravens you could engage with your army and micro the ravens close enough to ensure a kill. PDD's help against hydras and mutas too.
I like this, it reminds me of BW SK Terran
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interesting build
if u improve ur hotkey u can play better wif that build
ur not using 0 9 8 7 u should
rather all close together to 123456
i put my cc on 0
rax 7 fac 8 star 9
123456 all units
not bossing, but saying this could be more handy u only had 123 for untis
i like to group my medivac separate since sometimes it stops me from stimming if u r used to
using Tab to stim that's fine but like in the replay ur mediva flies in since they are faster n dies
could be critical when u don't have much of them
i wanna try this when i play zerg nx time
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Thanks for the nice guide. Since the objective of the strategy is given, I dont intend to argue for too long. Nevertheless
On August 30 2010 10:15 rauk wrote:
mutas
HSM +stim marines lol.
Seriously thors are fucking slow and expensive and suck against mutas for cost anyways. Don't make thors, they're bad. Try to sandwich the mutas between your ravens and marines so when they run from marines they get HSM in the face.
This is a widely spread and wrong claim!
Thors beat magic-boxex Mutalisks as long, as they are evenly supplied. The larger the numbers, the better for the Thors.
1 Thor beats 3 Mutas
2 Thors beat 6 Mutas
4 Thors beat 12 Mutas
6 Thors beat 18 Mutas (2 Thors survive, if you spread the Thors a little beat can be even 3-4)
8 Thors beat 24 Mutas (2 Thors survive)
10 Thors beat 30 Mutas (3 Thors survive, with +1 Attack Upgrade for Mutas 2 Thors survive)
Add, that with larger numbers the appropriate micro for Mutalisks get harder.
P.S.: Just saw it's an old Post. Sorry for bumping up, hope my findings are worth it nevertheless
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EPT
