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PvT Mass archons, they any good? - Page 2

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attacknme 79 Posts August 24 2010 05:44 GMT #21 The protoss was using all of his gas on getting templars for the purpose of softening the MMM ball. Notice that the protoss kept attacking and then retreat when the terran stims, and then waits out the stim before attacking again, all the while trying to get as much storms as possible. Building archons are just another way of getting the most out of your HT's as possible, so you really should look at it as a byproduct of the main focus which is a chargelot/storm build. The reason he got so many archons was that he always retreated at good timing to save his units, and he just happen to be able to save a lot of archons from HT's that have used up their purpose. Waiting for the HT to recharge would've taken forever and it is more effective to turn them into archons and just make more HT's since ALL of his gas was focussed on storming.

Jayrod 1820 Posts August 24 2010 19:17 GMT #22 Not sure if this is a nightend replay or not (no youtube at work), but he recently had a series available on sc2rep.net... three games of speedlot+HT (basically) against another top player going heavy bio. Nightend won all three games, but its important to note that he does this by having a force strong enough to defend his expansions and good map control. Just getting the units wont be enough, all of the games really looked like a map control tug'o'war. If you are a player who is reluctant to push out and take control of the map until you have this really powerful army, you'll probably get crushed. His play isn't a timing push or anything. Its constant skirmishes coupled with decent economy to basically send a never ending assault, often attacking into an entrenched terran just to kill a couple tanks and soften the bioball. The unit comp is simple, but the play is very aggressive.

kasumimi Greece460 Posts August 24 2010 19:41 GMT #23 + =

Ryuu314 United States12679 Posts August 24 2010 19:54 GMT #24 Archons are pretty good against the bio Terran due to their high dps to biological units, but marauder's concussive shells wreck them pretty hard. Still, they act as pretty good tanks and do good damage if they actually reach the bio ball.

Fork Russian Federation100 Posts August 24 2010 20:03 GMT #25 Archons is what's on the menu when you're in a bind and your HT's are out of energy. They may be powerful, but way to expensive for what they are/do. Bring back BW Archons.. maybe then.

Gnial Canada907 Posts August 24 2010 20:09 GMT #26 I regularly incorporate archons into my mid-late game composition against terran. (800 diamond) They are such massive damage sinks, and they do so much damage to bio (44 damage per attack, AOE, with level 3 upgrades - which you should have by the late game). So many terran units do extra damage to specific armor types - archons NEVER take extra damage from units, which makes them particularly strong against units like marauders, unseiged tanks (or seiged tanks since they are so large there is minimal splash damage), hellions, ghosts, etc. You want to keep a healthy composition going; don't ONLY get blink stalkers and zealots, or ONLY get chargelots and templars. I get a couple archons, a few stalkers, a couple sentries, a lot of templars, and a LOT of chargelots. This way they don't overly bulk up or block one another, and I get the benefits of guardian shield, forcefield, storm, ranged attacks and melee. Since stalkers are the last units targeted down, you really don't need many of them since they will just get stuck on one another and block units trying to get within range. Ghosts are not particularly effective against archons - I would love if the ghosts used emp on my archons, since it means they're wasting important battle APM on them instead of on important units like sentries and templars, allowing me to get my forcefields, storms and feedbacks off. As for marauders, they auto-target the closest units - chargelots. If your opponent specifically targets archons with his marauders, then he is retarded since he is staying within range of your chargelots, sentries, templars etc. The better balanced your composition is, the harder it is to micro against, and the more tools you have at your disposal. Archons are a great fit in a protoss gateway composition because of their huge damage, their AOE attack, their huge health, and their range (which fits them nicely between the front line and the sentry/stalker/templar back line).

Soap Brazil1546 Posts August 24 2010 20:22 GMT #27 They tank awesomely because of their HP and size that denies AoE damage, but they block the frontline and so require ranged damage dealers. But for toss those are collossus and immortal, that eat up gas and don't need tank. The toss on the OP won because even though the terran had early advantage with his rax FE, he didn't manage to switch from mass marauders that suck royally against chargelots.

Skyro United States1823 Posts August 24 2010 21:29 GMT #28 Archons are good tanks, but not much else in PvT. Even in those games you can see Archons didn't really do much damage due to all the kiting and being affected by concussive shells. If they were massive units and weren't effected by marauder's slow, and possibly up their range to 3 as they have a lot of problems shooting over zealots, then I think they'd be a lot better. But while you can say archons are underused, honestly I don't think many players play at a such a tight, high pace like these pro gamers where it's worth it to make archons very often, e.g. that there simply aren't enough skirmishes throughout the game where you absolutely needed the extra firepower immediately, rather than let your HT recharge their energy. Sure you'll make an archon every now and then like when your HTs are getting focus fired or after a storm drop or something, but that doesn't mean it's worth it to make an archon for every depleted HT you have, at least not for your average diamond player.

sith United States2474 Posts August 24 2010 22:09 GMT #29 I've noticed that Terran players will often overestimate how much of a threat archons are and try and focus them down. This is the worst thing you can possibly do: low level diamond players, i'm talking to you. Stop focusing my archons down. You are getting murdered because of it.

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