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On August 23 2010 18:13 fadeh wrote:
There's the entire day9 daily #135 about this strategy where Sean analyzes four Brat_OK's replay. It's worth watching it.
Someone pointed out that Colossi is a game-ending unit versus this kind of build but I would rather disagree. At the time the first Colossus is out you should have already at least one Starport which means you can switch it on a reactor and start pumping out vikings. To me (http://sc2ranks.com/eu/627538/fadeh just started playing sc2 with almost no previous experience on rts) looks like HT are more effective even if they are kinda hard to micro properly.
vs purely bratoks marine/ghost build, gateway units +collussus is imo more threatening than ht. Reason is that while 2storms can anal rape me, I can prevent it. Collussus will always hurt my units, even if I have vikings. People often forget, it takes a while for vikings to actually kill col unless you spend a lot more resources into them than the toss did to col. Else I will need to try to preemptively kill the col before the battle, though with good stalker control stalkers should take care of it. If I hold my cards decently, the toss will have to spend a lot more resources to warp in storms.
And about the marauder vs x video, the gateway units work as a unity. Marauders might win zlots in such massive numbers, but give a line of stalkers behind a line of zlots and 2 rauder lines will prob loose, or atleast the battle will be a lot closer. Reason for this is: zlots and stalkers do decent dmg to rauders, rauders do slow dmg to zlots and good to stalkers, so even if you focus the stalkers, the zlots are in your face and if you focus the zlots, you loose since rauders kill them so slowly.
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Once again, that video isn't a general view - it's just 200 supply of uselessness. It doesn't prove anything. Sure marauders are (imho) really cheap compared to stalkers, and yet as a protoss player when I saw it I just lol'd.
If you wanna make a point, you can't make it like that, 200 supply fights are quite of a joke.
It's like making a video for 20 carriers, sure they are almost impossible to stop - in a non micro fight they even take down vikings/corruptors and yamato BCs.
Still - what is the freaking point? it's 120 supply of carriers we are talking about.
And once again, I'm far from happy about the PvT situation (especially midgame terran superiority) and yet as a diamond toss, I still find the video thing a joke.
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No need to go mass ghost against toss. 2-3 is fine for emp. The real deal vs toss gate units is is tanks+vikings+ravens, add a couple mara/rines to deal with stalkers blinking over your tanks. PDDs to nullify stalkers, about 2 vikings per colossi. I think it was DeMusliM who said in an interview at ESL that he got owned by tanks+vikings once and really had no idea what to do against that.
Protoss really fights an uphill battle IMO because it seems that every toss counter has hard-countered by only a couple terran units. Immortals are supposed to counter tanks, as long as they have shields... hello EMP. HTs are fragile and have a hard time pulling storms off while staying out of tank/snipe range and also are vulnerable to EMP which has a bigger range than PsiStorm(and ghost are cloaked+protected by siege tanks). Mass Stalkers and a couple ravens will make sure you deal no damage while the terran army goes to town on you, chargelots are nice but not really versatile.
For those saying "but the Terran doesn't have all these unit types", the problem is that he has access to all this array of units opening 1/1/1+academy. Ghosts+Ravens don't need to be massed, only 1-3 of each can turn the tide of the battle early on. It seems like in the proper hands, terrans just have too many "lol my counter counters your counter" cards.
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I like the early ghost marine build, and I have fun with it. What I like most about it, is that it counters what I believe is the best protoss opening vs terran, which is the void ray opening. It is also effective vs an all gateway opening, and it beats a templar opening because you will hit them before storm is researched.
Colossus, of course, is the hard counter. It comes down to your attack timing vs his scouting (I try to hide my tech but if he opens robo and obs, he will see it and drop a robotics bay). I have come to fully expect this so its all about the timing of your attack.
The key to this big ghost/marine attack is saving a scan. I use 2 ghosts, save a scan, and when I reach his base I run the ghosts close to ramp, scan up, and blast the sentries (and usually a good part of the army also). If you time it right, you *should* walk into his base just barely before that colossus pops out. If you let him FF you out for another minute however, you will likely need to run and regroup.
If the Toss plays offensively, he will be going all gateway. In this case you emp on the defensive, and concentrate on massing and surviving. Once you make him run, counter attack, kill his pylons along the way, and again I recommend saving a can once you get to his base. FF's can really screw you at the choke.
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Eh its fine. High templar move faster than ghosts to make up for the fact that EMP frontloads all of its damage as opposed to storm's dodgable damage over time.
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On August 24 2010 00:46 Three wrote:
Eh its fine. High templar move faster than ghosts to make up for the fact that EMP frontloads all of its damage as opposed to storm's dodgable damage over time.
Uh... No. No, they don't.
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On August 24 2010 00:46 Three wrote:
Eh its fine. High templar move faster than ghosts to make up for the fact that EMP frontloads all of its damage as opposed to storm's dodgable damage over time.
?
HT are clearly slower than ghosts and every other ground unit I can think of.
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On August 24 2010 01:51 sleep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2010 00:46 Three wrote:
Eh its fine. High templar move faster than ghosts to make up for the fact that EMP frontloads all of its damage as opposed to storm's dodgable damage over time. ? HT are clearly slower than ghosts and every other ground unit I can think of.
On August 24 2010 01:27 whateversclever wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2010 00:46 Three wrote:
Eh its fine. High templar move faster than ghosts to make up for the fact that EMP frontloads all of its damage as opposed to storm's dodgable damage over time. Uh... No. No, they don't. I'm quite sure he was being sarcastic. 
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Yes White's micro was not the greatest but there are many other factors going against him since it was PvT. HT gets nullifed by a AOE attack (which ghosts come with) while Protoss have to tech 2x just to make HT effective off the bat. Terran can scan a toss's base and see if they are going colossi before one even comes out, thus he builds a reactor on his starport, pops out vikings before the colossi even comes out and now has counter toss's tier 3 tech build (which also requires an expensive upgrade just to get some decent range). Always an up hill battle for toss and play is dictated by what the Terran player decides to do. It can take awhile for Toss to change strats to counter Terran, where as they are capable of changing strats on a dime.
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EPT
