actually corruptors do terrible against this composition. They're really expensive and in the end you're still left with the ground army. Ultras is the real choice. Whenever I secure a small advantage in PvZ i immediately take my third and drop an infestation pit for quick ultras. If it's cross positions on a big map I also enjoy taking the risk and doing the same. ultras are the choice, with support, especially if you opened hydras, zealots melt to hydra roach. They arent a problem. Ultras really well against this composition but you cannot sit on them for long, as immortals do work. They really buy time for you to get broodlords, and broodlord ultra ling really really is so cost effective. People stand by corruptors, but even Idra says they arent viable, as muta openers are only good vs a few protoss builds, and dropping the spire 1) nukes your ground army 2) nukes your ground army more, and your still left with the protoss ground army and 3) has huge redundancy and efficiency problems at high level play.

kungfu

United States30 Posts

August 18 2010 15:15 GMT

#42

A few people already mentioned this, but I thought I'd add my voice to the choir. I'm a P player but when my Zerg practice buddy has done the best against this stalker colossi (2 robo off 2 base), the composition he used was roach with garnishes of hydra, ling, and corrupter.

Roaches aren't the 'best' response to colossi but you can mass them up so much faster than ultra's. Couple that with it just takes colossi time to chew through all those roaches and stalkers aren't much better at killing them fast. Only thing that will save the toss with that kind of composition is sentry force fields, allowing him to zone your army. Each sentry means they essentially cut 2 stalkers out of their army, and you can then punish them for that with corrupters. As far as I can tell the hydra's are added in for some increased dps.

I'd also like to note that this is only really true while the toss has 3-4 colossi, once they go past that, then the time it takes to burn through roaches stops being a problem.

best o' luck mate

(~400 diamond protoss)

viETchicken

United States5 Posts

August 18 2010 16:02 GMT

#43

if they go JUST stalker and colosus maybe you should go speedling with mutas? maybe get a good surround/flank with the lings for the stalkers and the mutas to immediately snipe the colosus? or maybe have infestors to and roachs do their little sneaky burrow stuff and try to go under the army and summon some infested terrans?

Markwerf

Netherlands3728 Posts

August 18 2010 16:34 GMT

#44

Roaches aren't really a good unit to make against protoss. There are several units with substantial bonus against armored and none with a bonus against light. Roaches only have real uses against protoss early game, later on they only form a juicy target for the protoss stalkers. Why make armored units when you can go all light units?
Corruptors are an exception to this because they are very efficient for their cost. The only problem with them is that they require a spire (and muta's are often not efficient against protoss) and are bad when you overproduce them. You need enough to kill the colossi fast enough but don't want to get into the situation where the protoss just ignores them and kills your ground with his stalkers instead.

In the abstract ultraling is the counter to colossi/stalker but in a real game situation where the protoss will adapt to your ultra tech with immortals it's just not a good choice. Corruptors can actually reach the corruptors while ultra's have all kinds of problems reaching the stalker/colossi if there are also zealots and immortals on the field.

rockslave

Brazil318 Posts

August 18 2010 16:46 GMT

#45

Against low numbers of Colossi, I usually find it pretty easy to micro. I think pure Hydras is ok in this case: if the Colossi are far back, you just stay out of its range killing the Stalkers. If it dives in, you dive in and snipe it.

fdsdfg

United States1251 Posts

August 18 2010 17:03 GMT

#46

On August 19 2010 01:46 rockslave wrote:
if the Colossi are far back, you just stay out of its range killing the Stalkers. If it dives in, you dive in and snipe it.

What about when the colossi are in range of you, you're not in range of the colossi, and you can't move forward due to zealots or forcefields?

Because this is how the fight is going to end up.

rockslave

Brazil318 Posts

August 18 2010 17:23 GMT

#47

Well you shouldn't get to that position, if you can't snipe the Colossus, you stay out of its range. But yes, FFs screw everything.

teamsolid

Canada3668 Posts

August 18 2010 17:34 GMT

#48

Hydra --> roach/corruptor --> broodlords works wonders for me. I almost rarely ever lose a late game ZvP if it gets that far ~600 zerg.

silencesc

United States464 Posts

August 18 2010 18:26 GMT

#49

On August 18 2010 04:07 phyre112 wrote:
Ultralisks tank the Collo splash like a champ. If you can survive the game to the point where you have a handful of ultras, his collos are essentially useless. Use whatever you like to clean up the stalkers - roaches, lings, and hydras are all wonderful at that job, as I'm sure you know.

If you can't survive in the game to the point at which you have ultras, you're right in that the correct counter should be corruptors. They'll eat through these things ridiculously quickly due to their bonus against massive units, and the increased damage through the spell contaminate if you have the spare APM. The key here is that you need to get them to attack at a time in which your opponents collo are exposed. Consider it much like attacking a terran army. You don't want to come in when his tanks are all seiged up, but rather when he is moving and exposed. Fortunately, this is easier to do because of the P's inability to leapfrog things like a T does with tanks.

Try your best to snipe the collossi when they are exposed. A P moving into position, going through a choke, or a mismicroed collossi that steps up onto high ground at the wrong time. These are all excellent opportunities that you need to be ready to take advantage of. Corruptors are relatively mobile flying units. Pull a flank. Come around from the back even.

Once the collossi are down, Pure stalker melts to hydra fire, to enough lings/roaches, or to just about whatever else you want to throw at them with the exception of mutas. I'm a P player, but this is generally the way that my collo are taken out when I lose - through some micro accident of my nub self. Just be ready to capitalize when the opportunity is presented. Perhaps some Z player can come through and give you tips on how exactly to be ready for that.

GL!

If I see Ultras coming out, I switch to immortals...the tech is already up and immortals essentially rape ultras. I don't see ultras being that useful in ZvP, just because the common build (stalkers/collo) is so easily changed into zealot or sentry/immortals to kill the lings and ultras.