EPTHow to counter Stalker Collosus combo as Zerg? - Page 2
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
a176
Canada6688 Posts
| ||
|
ohN
United States1075 Posts
If he has stalker collusus and you get like 5 ultras, all his shit's dead. Ultras are amazing late game vs 'toss, just don't forget to upgrade them. Huge difference between 5/3 ultras and 0/0 ultras. I, personally, don't like corrupters because while you can probably kill of all his collusus with them, they're pretty expensive and his non-collusus army will kill you half the time because your ground army will be significantly weaker. They are good though if you don't have ultra tech yet and you're ahead in econ. | ||
|
Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
| ||
|
Melt
Switzerland281 Posts
Add Corruptors to deal with the Colossi. Lategame, Ultra/Hydra or Broodlord/Hydra are really nice. Ultras (if upgraded properly) will take nearly no Damage from Zealots, the only stupid thing is they shouldn't attack the zealots either because you should use their +armored damage potential. Only engage on open Fields where you can run to the Stalkers and Colossi. | ||
|
bobcat
United States488 Posts
| ||
|
BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On August 18 2010 05:33 Markwerf wrote: Anyone suggesting ultraling without corruptors really needs to check their strategies. Against a proper protoss who switches to immortals and has a few zealots as buffer your ultra's just suck. So much crap advice in this thread... then zerg just switch to muta, and now your immortals + few zealots just suck. See that? Zerg can switch a lot faster than toss. This thread isn't about how to deal with tech switches, it's about how to counter stalker/colossus, and ultra/ling does just that. | ||
|
Xizorz
93 Posts
| ||
|
Subztance
United States139 Posts
On August 18 2010 05:33 Markwerf wrote: Anyone suggesting ultraling without corruptors really needs to check their strategies. Against a proper protoss who switches to immortals and has a few zealots as buffer your ultra's just suck. So much crap advice in this thread... Given how slowly collosi/immortals move compared to ultras or zerglings, its likely that your zerg opponent will be able to choose where to engage your army when it moves out. a few zealots will only be an effective buffer at a ramp, anywhere else the ultras can just run around your zealots. and like another poster said, if you get too many zealots and immortals, the zerg can switch to mutas quickly given that he most likely already built a spire during lair tech. Edit: I almost forgot.... how would corruptors help against a player who switches to immortals and zealots O_o | ||
|
greenkid
114 Posts
| ||
|
hizBALLIN
United States163 Posts
On August 18 2010 06:06 BlasiuS wrote: then zerg just switch to muta, and now your immortals + few zealots just suck. See that? Zerg can switch a lot faster than toss. This thread isn't about how to deal with tech switches, it's about how to counter stalker/colossus, and ultra/ling does just that. So what you're saying is tech to ultra and then back teching to spire is an all around superior strategy than teching to spire and then potentially teching to ultra? I wish you could see the "you can't be serious" face I'm making right now. Given the excruciating tech time for both spire and ultra, you're better off picking up spire prior to ultras, since Spire is only three steps (spawning pool, lair, spire) with the option of potentially winning the game right there since robo units can do literally nothing against them, versus teching to ultra (5 steps: pool, lair, infestor, hive, ultra, and it sucks without at least being 2/2 with armor upgrade), getting countered by robo units, and then back teching to spire (which has a 100 second build time alone, and you're already rough on gas from making ultras), while he's had time to tech to templar tech, and counter your mutas (since he'll have an observer lurking around). The plan with less steps is probably inherently superior in both ease of execution and timing, since robo units show up en masse far faster than you can get ultras out. | ||
|
Carefoot
Canada410 Posts
On August 18 2010 08:06 Subztance wrote: Given how slowly collosi/immortals move compared to ultras or zerglings, its likely that your zerg opponent will be able to choose where to engage your army when it moves out. a few zealots will only be an effective buffer at a ramp, anywhere else the ultras can just run around your zealots. and like another poster said, if you get too many zealots and immortals, the zerg can switch to mutas quickly given that he most likely already built a spire during lair tech. Edit: I almost forgot.... how would corruptors help against a player who switches to immortals and zealots O_o I hope your question on the edit isn't serious. Corruptors morph into Broodlords. Also try using queens on creep vs. Collusi, with proper concave their air to ground attack should be fairly effective. Roach queen in my opinion with transfuse would be the simplest way. Just throw in some hydras once the queen #s match the roach #s or when the army is heavier on the stalkers keep some lings on masse for cleanup | ||
|
Gedrah
465 Posts
| ||
|
wizard944
194 Posts
On August 18 2010 04:03 Skillz_Man wrote: It's important to not go overboard with corruptors, one and a half for each collosis is a good rule of thumb. It's very important to snipe with corruptors before you engage with a ground army. Collosis are effective s all ground against ultralisk, so the options are: -make mass muta to kill stalkers and collosis -hydra/corruptor -ultraling these are the main counters, usually stalker/collosis is pretty hard to do since collosis is so gas heavy you can't make enough stalkers. mass mutas, against stalkers? I don't quite follow your logic here, mutas are incredibly inefficient in straight up battles, which is almost always how you would be fighting stalkers. The other two options I definitely agree with though | ||
|
Sixes
Canada1123 Posts
On August 18 2010 04:04 fdsdfg wrote: If it's lategame enough for ultras, that's great, but colossi can come way before ultras. Generally once you hit T2, you need to choose whether to get Hydra, Infestor, or Spire - you can't go for more than one because it's too much gas. I go Hydra if I'm seeing 4gate / starport, or Spire if I see a robo bay. If I see a twilight council I usually go Spire out of familiarity, but that's not common. Colossi are answered pretty eaisly with corruptors and a whole lot of lings for the stalkers. Either the stalkers shoot the lings or they shoot the corruptors, in either case Protoss is going to lose at cost. If lots of zealots are thrown in there, then micro gets really hard because the lings want to avoid them and the zerglings are not going to survive as long (the zealots don't have to choose what to attack). I've heard banelings works well in this situation, but I haven't tried that. Neural parasite is good, but it's a lot of gas investment in a really bad gamble. If the stalkers don't move forward and kill your infestor, and the Colossus doesn't happen to kill it during the tether animation, you still have to give the colossus back in 15 seconds - and it's hard to say that was worth all the time and resources put into infestor / NP tech when you could have had a few corruptors or mutas instead. So basically, corruptors. Mutas are also fine. I think Muta-Ling works. I quoted the above because it points out the key variable : the number of zealots. Lots of zealots means your mass of mutas can just kill stalkers and clean up the rest (you can spend almost all your gas on mutas, they take care of stalkers decently when massed). Few zealots means you need to attack with the lings and mutas, mutas take out colossi, lings get stalkers. | ||
|
MforWW
United States157 Posts
mass hydra + corruptors (and a couple of roaches thrown in for spice) works wonders for me. /ZvP is my best matchup, by far. i don't think i've lost to protoss in about 7 games... //also, ultras can be nice if you can quickly get them in contact with the stalker ball. but if they have sentries, they'll FF. if they have zealots, they'll get picked off before hitting the stalkers. if there's a choke, they won't do anything. if there are immortals, you're screwed. in other words, there are so many potential caveats it's usually not worth it to get ultras. my last ZvP game went to tier 3 and i just got broodlords... an excellent investment no matter what the situation is. unlike ultras, when is the last time when broodlords DIDN'T pay off? | ||
|
Ndugu
United States1078 Posts
If you can have your units hitting the Collosi, they die fast and you win. Otherwise, get to Ultras. | ||
|
Carefoot
Canada410 Posts
On August 18 2010 10:22 MforWW wrote: as a 500 rating diamond zerg player, i'm really confused by all of these people suggesting that you go muta against stalkers... mass hydra + corruptors (and a couple of roaches thrown in for spice) works wonders for me. /ZvP is my best matchup, by far. i don't think i've lost to protoss in about 7 games... //also, ultras can be nice if you can quickly get them in contact with the stalker ball. but if they have sentries, they'll FF. if they have zealots, they'll get picked off before hitting the stalkers. if there's a choke, they won't do anything. if there are immortals, you're screwed. in other words, there are so many potential caveats it's usually not worth it to get ultras. my last ZvP game went to tier 3 and i just got broodlords... an excellent investment no matter what the situation is. unlike ultras, when is the last time when broodlords DIDN'T pay off? I fully agree broodlords are under utilized in this matchup. | ||
|
NeoLearner
Belgium1847 Posts
On August 18 2010 13:59 Carefoot wrote: I fully agree broodlords are under utilized in this matchup. After reading this thread I was thinking exactly the same thing. Why balance on the edge of "Do I have enough corrupters to not roll over to his collossus right now?" and then tech the other way for ultras? If you go broodlords in tier3, you can go slightly overboard with corrupters as Travis said and still have a use for those units in the late game. Bonus is that you'll be a bit "safer" against collosus in the mid-game. You'll have to be a bit less hydra heavy but more hydras die to collosus fire than to stalker fire anyway. So if the collosus are out, you'd need less hydras anyway. Another additional bonus is that the counter for Ultralisk, Immortals, is not even a tech switch away while all air units used to counter your broodlords are already countered by your hydras and left over corrupters. True, blink stalkers would still hurt your broodlords. But it would mean the Protoss has to blink into your hyda's arch range... EDIT: For being less wall-y | ||
|
BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On August 18 2010 09:23 hizBALLIN wrote: So what you're saying is tech to ultra and then back teching to spire is an all around superior strategy than teching to spire and then potentially teching to ultra? I wish you could see the "you can't be serious" face I'm making right now. Given the excruciating tech time for both spire and ultra, you're better off picking up spire prior to ultras, since Spire is only three steps (spawning pool, lair, spire) with the option of potentially winning the game right there since robo units can do literally nothing against them, versus teching to ultra (5 steps: pool, lair, infestor, hive, ultra, and it sucks without at least being 2/2 with armor upgrade), getting countered by robo units, and then back teching to spire (which has a 100 second build time alone, and you're already rough on gas from making ultras), while he's had time to tech to templar tech, and counter your mutas (since he'll have an observer lurking around). The plan with less steps is probably inherently superior in both ease of execution and timing, since robo units show up en masse far faster than you can get ultras out. rofl? I never said wait until after you have ultras out before making spire -_- "switching to muta" ≠ "making spire" how the hell did you come up with that. you should always have a spire before you reach hive | ||
|
Ndugu
United States1078 Posts
 Especially if its after I've laid down two robos. and started teching extended thermal lance.Now that I'm theory-crafting in my head, I should lay down two starports and micro some phoenixes to retake aerial dominance... and then go with Collosi anyway. But I never do that. Muta/ling into ultras to smite the stalker heavy comp you tricked me into making. | ||
| ||
