EPTZerg Timing Pushes?
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Jagged
9 Posts
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Bair
United States698 Posts
Zerg has few resource effective way to beat a wallin, and 1 before t3. Timing pushes are not really viable in ZvZ really unless it is cheese. | ||
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StupidFatHobbit
United States98 Posts
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Jagged
9 Posts
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
On August 11 2010 05:22 Jagged wrote: There has to be more that a Zerg player can do to his enemy besides macro up, baneling bust and muta harass. 1base nydus allin works vs FEing protoss sometimes. But really, our options are pretty limited  | ||
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GenesisX
Canada4267 Posts
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Zoltan
United States656 Posts
Have you tried OL roach / ling drop timing push? It really is only useful on a few maps (LT, Metalopolis...) but get t2 get ol drop + ol speed simultaneously and use what you have to drop on them. Might not be a "timing push" but its the closest thing i know without it being a baneling bust... my zerg knowledge is fairly limited so im just going on whats used against me. P.S. The only true timing pushes used against me as a T are bling bust and nydus. Never a early t2 drop, which i think would work wonders at ruining my econ. P.P.S I really shouldnt help zergs they beat me way too often anyway at t3 | ||
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Jagged
9 Posts
On August 11 2010 05:26 Butigroove wrote: 1base nydus allin works vs FEing protoss sometimes. But really, our options are pretty limited Im not looking for all in strategies. I would like to be able to keep up my macro while getting a nice timing push out. Like I said I am still perfecting my roach push build. I think it has promise. Roaches with 2 armor and the ability to burrow and regen can be microed well and make them hard to kill. Transition from there into mutalisks to abuse his inevitable anti armor unit response. This all has the trouble of not being able to get past a wall in. Roaches are such great defensive units. I suppose it would work to just leave them burrowed outside his base and wait for him to expand or move out. ...Like I said, still workin' the details | ||
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Zoltan
United States656 Posts
On August 11 2010 05:31 Jagged wrote: Im not looking for all in strategies. I would like to be able to keep up my macro while getting a nice timing push out. Like I said I am still perfecting my roach push build. I think it has promise. Roaches with 2 armor and the ability to burrow and regen can be microed well and make them hard to kill. Transition from there into mutalisks to abuse his inevitable anti armor unit response. This all has the trouble of not being able to get past a wall in. Roaches are such great defensive units. I suppose it would work to just leave them burrowed outside his base and wait for him to expand or move out. ...Like I said, still workin' the details since u are tier 2 anyway- get drop for your overlords. There is nothing all in about drops. | ||
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Jagged
9 Posts
On August 11 2010 05:28 GenesisX wrote: Only success I get is baneling busts. I have been experimenting with fast roach (like in ZvZ), but I have no success so far. Could you post your roach build please? I would really like to compare with what I have, lol. Against T and P I have been doing a 14 pool 15 hatch. Then I usually build a Roach Warren before gas and get a handful of roaches for early defense. At 100 gas I go lair and drop an evo chamber. Then I get all the roach upgrades, burrow and +1 carapace while getting a lot of drones and all 4 gas. When I push I throw down a spire for the transition into mutalisks. Versus Z I do a similar build except off of one base, because that match up is always so fast and aggressive, fast expand is out of the picture. What's your roach build look like? | ||
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TSL-Lore
United States412 Posts
If you're talking about "what is a good zerg timing attack?" its generally right after you've allowed the opponent to come in and lose his army to your concealed army. I particularly enjoy doing this to 4-gate protoss. I would essentially stay on hatchery tech, get metabolic boost, a good number of zerglings and however many roaches I can get with 1 geyser. They rarely suspect it when their 4-gate attack comes and then they get surrounded. Right after that is a good window for a zerg timing attack. Why are we calling every form of attack a "push?" I thought the push term was reserved for slow moving armies that stop to build bunkers or siege/unsiege as they eventually push to reach your base. I think the only zerg timing "push" would be some sort of spine crawler push. | ||
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Jagged
9 Posts
On August 11 2010 05:38 TSL-Lore wrote: what the hell is a zerg timing push? Aren't we just talking about timing attacks? If you're talking about "what is a good zerg timing attack?" its generally right after you've allowed the opponent to come in and lose his army to your concealed army. I particularly enjoy doing this to 4-gate protoss. I would essentially stay on hatchery tech, get metabolic boost, a good number of zerglings and however many roaches I can get with 1 geyser. They rarely suspect it when their 4-gate attack comes and then they get surrounded. Right after that is a good window for a zerg timing attack. Why are we calling every form of attack a "push?" I thought the push term was reserved for slow moving armies that stop to build bunkers or siege/unsiege as they eventually push to reach your base. I think the only zerg timing "push" would be some sort of spine crawler push. Im saying a timing push to refer to an attack that I can plan to execute regardless of whether he pushes out or not to put pressure on him. I don't like always being so passive and waiting for my enemy to attack me first. This gives him all the initiative. | ||
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Cofo
United States1388 Posts
On August 11 2010 05:38 TSL-Lore wrote: what the hell is a zerg timing push? Aren't we just talking about timing attacks? Why are we calling every form of attack a "push?" I thought the push term was reserved for slow moving armies that stop to build bunkers or siege/unsiege as they eventually push to reach your base. I think the only zerg timing "push" would be some sort of spine crawler push. QFT. The term "push" has been bastardized as of late. The only zerg pushes you can do are with lurkers or sunkens (spine crawlers). The term the OP is looking for is "timing attack". | ||
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J7S
Brazil179 Posts
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Jagged
9 Posts
On August 11 2010 05:43 Cofo wrote: QFT. The term "push" has been bastardized as of late. The only zerg pushes you can do are with lurkers or sunkens (spine crawlers). The term the OP is looking for is "timing attack". Alright, I concede the semantics battle. It is more of a timing attack then a push. The question still stands, however. | ||
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TSL-Lore
United States412 Posts
On August 11 2010 05:40 Jagged wrote: Im saying a timing push to refer to an attack that I can plan to execute regardless of whether he pushes out or not to put pressure on him. I don't like always being so passive and waiting for my enemy to attack me first. This gives him all the initiative. Yeah i know what you're referring to. It's just annoying to hear everyone on this forum use terms incorrectly. People fling the phrases "timing push" "cheese" "all in" to sound like they know what they're talking about but its just all wrong. The collective intelligence of this forum has been rapidly diminishing since SC2 came out and floods of WoW-types flocked to play this new game. Anyway.. its exceedingly difficult to be immediately aggressive with zerg, save for the notorious baneling bust. If you go Roaches like you have been, then any terran who was going marauders would shut down your aggression relatively easily. It's sad, but the zerg race is mostly a reactionary race. You can still be aggressive immediately after your opponent makes his first move though, which I like to call "passive aggression." luckily for me, that suits my playstyle. | ||
Chill
Calgary25977 Posts
That being said, Zerg usually plays expansive rather than setting up for timing attacks. Timing attacks negate Zerg's speed and flexible production, which are their core advantages. | ||
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Chill
Calgary25977 Posts
On August 11 2010 05:47 Jagged wrote: Alright, I concede the semantics battle. It is more of a timing attack then a push. The question still stands, however. It's not really semantics. It's important we preserve the language if we want to have any sort of high level discussion. | ||
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MoreFaSho
United States1427 Posts
On August 11 2010 05:49 Chill wrote: The only obvious timing attack I can come up with would be just when the Nexus / CC finishes, or when the Templar Archives / Robotics Support Bay finishes. That being said, Zerg usually plays expansion rather than setting up for timing attacks. Timing attacks negate Zerg's speed and flexible production, which are their core advantages. Yes, robo support bay timing pushes are very important. For me it might be THE MOST important timing push. You should get a good feel for what your food count normally is around this, try to get your upgrades so they finish about the same time the robo support bay does and then push hard with roach hydra, roach/ling or hydra ling depending on his composition. | ||
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Jagged
9 Posts
On August 11 2010 05:47 TSL-Lore wrote: Anyway.. its exceedingly difficult to be immediately aggressive with zerg, save for the notorious baneling bust. If you go Roaches like you have been, then any terran who was going marauders would shut down your aggression relatively easily. It's sad, but the zerg race is mostly a reactionary race. You can still be aggressive immediately after your opponent makes his first move though, which I like to call "passive aggression." luckily for me, that suits my playstyle. This seems to be the consensus. Build up your army and wait for his attack, then counter. | ||
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