|
The one unit I hate, except for Siege Tank, Colossus, Phoenix, Zealot and Sentry, is the High Templar. I can deal with the other units I mentioned with the exception of perhaps the Siege Tank and the Colossus, but High Templar is the one unit in the game I fear the most as a Zerg Player.
Of course a bunch of High Templar without the support of a smexy ground force is no big deal but they are seldom seen without the close proximity of their fellow Protoss buddies which makes them harder to beat.
So where exactly do I struggle with them? Well, the standard protoss force consists of a little bit of everything. Usually there's one predominant unit which varies, but usually it's the stalker. When I see a huge blue blob of stalkers, I want to go Zerglings unless they have a few too many colossi behind them. Zerglings OR Hydras, that is. Hydras are of course the better choice if you're struggling with larva and have a decent economy. But really, it doesn't matter as High Templars kill them all.
So what units do we have left?
Roaches
Ultralisks
Mutalisks
Infestors
Brood Lords
Banelings
Roaches are of course the unit you WANT to make against those High Templars but let's discuss the other first since I want to take a moment to discuss Roaches.
Ultralisks - If you can get them, great but getting them isn't always an option. I'll explain why when I discuss Roaches.
Mutalisks - You'd think that if they have zero stalkers, Mutalisks would be a good option. Well, I have tried and my opponent simply made his HTs into Archons who of course obliterated my mutas. So mutalisks - nicht nicht.
Infestors - They are good to have against the colossi but I can't see them being useful when dealing with High Templars.
Brood Lords - I personally hate Brood Lords since they're so slow and sure, they're probably the best unit to use against a protoss ground army. However, it takes forever to tech up to them.
Banelings - lol.
Soooo, what about those roaches? Roaches are OK against a Protoss army. I think they do well against Stalkers, Zealots and Colossi. They do, however, have a couple of negative qualities. The first one being of course that they are not really supply efficient. If you were to throw your 200/200 homogeneous roach army against your opponents mixed ball of units, your roaches would fail. And if your army consists mostly of roaches, you can bet your ass that the protoss is gonna have a good amount of Immortals in front of his units. The same goes for ultralisks. Ultralisks would have been AWESOME against any protoss army, had it not been for those Immortals. So when going roaches, you want to mix in some other units as well. The overall best unit combo Zerg has is of course Roach/Hydra but my hydras die soooo damn quickly when he has high templars. In fact, if my opponent has like 7-8 HTs, my roaches will die very fast as well. I'm not even gonna mention Zerglings because they all die before they can do anything at all.
I know a good way to deal with psistorm is to move your units away from the storm. BUT I CAN'T because of those force fields which, by the way, very often splits my army into two so he can take one half out without having to bother with the other half. And even when I actually can move my units, they still suffer terrible damage because it takes a short while to get out of the storm and they get shot at by other units while doing it.
With that said, ALL would be good if it weren't for those ugly high templars. My Zerglings wouldn't die before they could even do the day9 scream, my hydra/roach combo would actually work and my infestors could probably mind control those retarded colossi.
So, fellow zerg players, how do I actually deal with them?
|
One of the primary mistakes I see in these Infestors vs HT vs Ghost arguments is people think you're meant to build some unit, wave a magic micromanagement wand and then never have to worry about them again. You don't counter them directly. You get casters of your own (Infestors) and just plain fuck his world up just as badly.
|
High Templars illustrate the necessity for zerg to flank effectively. I almost always keep a large number of speedlings detached from my main force. When they move out toward me I simply back up my main force until their army is in a good place to flank, then engage while simultaneously bringing the speedlings right into the high templar blob. Smart players keep their casters separate from their main force which almost makes it easier for lings to surround and kill.
|
Aotearoa39261 Posts
Don't look for a unit counter, just flank well and micro well. That's all there is to it. You can use fungal growth too since if HT are fungal'd they can't cast storm.
|
On August 08 2010 05:35 Nightbiscuit wrote:
Banelings - lol.
?
A good flank with some banelings can be deadly. ~10 banelings can destroy a front of zealot and some of them can kill a pack of templars.
|
On August 08 2010 05:45 Plexa wrote:
You can use fungal growth too since if HT are fungal'd they can't cast storm.
All I needed to know, thanks 
|
On August 08 2010 06:07 Nightbiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2010 05:45 Plexa wrote:
You can use fungal growth too since if HT are fungal'd they can't cast storm. All I needed to know, thanks
woah woah! I am PRETTY sure that they still can cast Storm if they are fungal'd. they just can't move. (they can't cast the storm farther away than their range.)
|
On August 08 2010 05:45 Plexa wrote:
Don't look for a unit counter, just flank well and micro well. That's all there is to it. You can use fungal growth too since if HT are fungal'd they can't cast storm.
You sure about that? They won't be able to move into position to cast it outside a range of 9, but surely they can still cast it 9 'units' from where they're stuck?
|
On August 08 2010 06:12 Arakash wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2010 06:07 Nightbiscuit wrote:On August 08 2010 05:45 Plexa wrote:
You can use fungal growth too since if HT are fungal'd they can't cast storm. All I needed to know, thanks woah woah! I am PRETTY sure that they still can cast Storm if they are fungal'd. they just can't move. (they can't cast the storm farther away than their range.)
Oh ok, then I'm almost back to square one. I mean, I know about the flanking and everything but it's freaking impossible to pull off a perfect flank so that your units attack at the same time from all sides.
|
Storm sucks if you keep to the creep and micro well. Or just overwhelm him with roaches/hydra. Or do both.
|
you can just make a few mutas & snipe them and still have a ground force to handle the rest
|
hydras on creep dominate Zealot and HTs, just shoot backoff shoot and back off. off creep this isnt as effective but on creep god it hurts! shouldnt be hard to go ling hydra broodlord? or ultra if you have to...although archons seems to hurt ultras alot.
|
Active creeping and positioning are keys to negating storm damage. If you scout HT - keep your army in a large, creep-filled area (in the middle of most maps, outside of small chokes/naturals). Burrowed units and flanking are effective ways to pick off HT as well.
|
if you have an infestor on high ground you can neural parasite an ht and then feedback all of the others, or storm if you feel like it.
|
Templar always fall behind b/c they are so slow and zlots charge. If you flank with some speedlings or even use burrowed roaches you can semi-snipe the templar.
That and kite.
|
Infestors counter HT really well actually. The trick is to abuse the unit ai, the swarm ai. Units like to clump, and like units like to clump even further (because of speed).
So what I like to do is fungal all the HT (which actually takes off all their shields) and holds them in place. So you can engage the stalker army without fear of HT storm. Or at the least makes it easier to dodge storm because they are limited on the range of it.
fungal, back off, engage, back off, engage type of thing.
Burrowed roach and infestor combined can be a really good sniping team.
|
I wonder if you can mindcontrol high templars and fuck him up with his own storms
|
On August 08 2010 08:36 Piski wrote:
I wonder if you can mindcontrol high templars and fuck him up with his own storms
you can, but it's not as good vs toss because their units have 150+ hp and are larger.
|
As a protoss i love using feedback on those fat little infestors. Infestors are not a very good option vs HT because of this (and blink stalkers can mess 'em up real good like). Also, in my mid/endgame army as toss i like having both HT and collosi as they complement each other very nicely and infestors do not work well against this. If you having problem with HT ultras in front of your hydras and flanking work well against toss.
|
In my experience as a Protoss player, I hate it when Roaches show up to my Chargelot+HT party. They have enough health to where killing them becomes inconvenient with Psi Storm, and they're reasonably good at killing zealots. Even worse, when they burrow, they can regen much of their health. Once Ultras come out in force, I feel my chances for victory becoming slim.
Also, if you can ever get a couple banelings to hit a HT ball, you'll kill them all instantly. It's fun/frustrating to behold.
|
On August 08 2010 08:37 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2010 08:36 Piski wrote:
I wonder if you can mindcontrol high templars and fuck him up with his own storms you can, but it's not as good vs toss because their units have 150+ hp and are larger.
Common misconception.
Protoss armies are small and blobtastic. Hitting every single unit in his army for 80 damage with just a couple of storms is just as powerful as using 2 Storms on a gigantic Zerg ball. One Storm can't even kill a Hydra (it heals 1 health before the Storm finishes it off).
I just wouldn't recommend getting Storm in PvP because you can't transition anywhere and even if you Feedback all his Sentries, his Collossi are just going to rape your Zealots regardless.
|
On August 08 2010 05:43 Fimbulwinter wrote:
High Templars illustrate the necessity for zerg to flank effectively. I almost always keep a large number of speedlings detached from my main force. When they move out toward me I simply back up my main force until their army is in a good place to flank, then engage while simultaneously bringing the speedlings right into the high templar blob. Smart players keep their casters separate from their main force which almost makes it easier for lings to surround and kill.
This.
You can also use the speedlings to run into his base if he's trying to push out against you. Wait until his army is half way across the map and rush your lings into his main/natural. If he doesn't have his natural, then you should be fine vs. an army that includes HT's.
But ya, in my experience speedlings are probably the most reliable counter to HT's because of the fact that they are tier 1 tech and move very quickly. In many situations, there will be a lot of zealots if the protoss is HT heavy, and you should get infestors to make the zealots useless while your vanguard-ranged army attacks from a distance. One nice thing about your speedlings getting a surround on his HT's/stalkers is that he is forced to storm himself in order to get rid of the lings quickly.
Basically, try this with a practice partner who frequently goes for templar tech. Make sure you have the ability to attack from multiple angles- flanking and speed are key to dealing with a gateway/ht army.
|
I went up against a Zerg who spammed Lings and Hydras. I went Templar build, and it was infuriating.
We had a mid-game fight of 150 food each, and his Lings/Banelings just roflpwnd my Gateway units, didn't even need the Hydras.
No, the Zergling is overpowered. It is broken. The Zerg gets ~30 food of it which forces you to make Zealots, the only spammable unit that can handle them, and then the Zerg morphs a few of them into Banelings, and you're screwed. Nothing the Protoss player can do because Stalkers suck.
Stalkers suck because they take 5-6 shots to kill a single Baneling. You see 8 of them rolling at you, what can you do? The Baneling explosion is larger than a Psi Storm.
As a Protoss player in Diamond, I don't know why Zerg don't win every PvZ. The match up is tilted in their favor. They really have no excuse.
- Can't go Collosus because Corruptors hard counter them, and because Stalkers suck it takes too long to kill a single Corruptor, much less a pack of 6 of them.
- Can't go Immortal because it's only good against two Zerg units, and one of those rarely sees the light of Game.
- Can't go air because of Hydras.
...
When I win a PvZ, I feel like I was lucky. I can't earn the win - when I win and watch the replay, all I can see are the mistakes the Zerg player made that lost him the game.
|
On August 08 2010 09:03 Kurdaj wrote:
I went up against a Zerg who spammed Lings and Hydras. I went Templar build, and it was infuriating.
We had a mid-game fight of 150 food each, and his Lings/Banelings just roflpwnd my Gateway units, didn't even need the Hydras.
No, the Zergling is overpowered. It is broken. The Zerg gets ~30 food of it which forces you to make Zealots, the only spammable unit that can handle them, and then the Zerg morphs a few of them into Banelings, and you're screwed. Nothing the Protoss player can do because Stalkers suck.
Stalkers suck because they take 5-6 shots to kill a single Baneling. You see 8 of them rolling at you, what can you do? The Baneling explosion is larger than a Psi Storm.
As a Protoss player in Diamond, I don't know why Zerg don't win every PvZ. The match up is tilted in their favor. They really have no excuse.
- Can't go Collosus because Corruptors hard counter them, and because Stalkers suck it takes too long to kill a single Corruptor, much less a pack of 6 of them.
- Can't go Immortal because it's only good against two Zerg units, and one of those rarely sees the light of Game.
- Can't go air because of Hydras.
...
When I win a PvZ, I feel like I was lucky. I can't earn the win - when I win and watch the replay, all I can see are the mistakes the Zerg player made that lost him the game.
By your logic, every single race is OP. Let me give you an example:
As a Zerg player in Diamond, I don't know why Protoss don't win every PvZ. The match up is tilted in their favor. They really have no excuse.
- Can't go Hydras because Colossi hard counter them, and because Corruptors suck against Stalkers all my Corruptors get owned, leaving my ground army to die to Colossus fire.
- Can't go Roach because Immortals hard counter them.
- Can't go air because of stalkers.
...
When I win a ZvP, I feel like I was lucky. I can't earn the win - when I win and watch the replay, all I can see are the mistakes the Protoss player made that lost him the game.
|
If they are able to support their ground army with a decent amount of high templars you should be able to get, or at least be teching to ultralisk. At that point you should be on your third base. (You must take 3rd base while they are on two),
Roach are fine, I know I know we all knew the days when they were one supply, but alas they are gone and we have to make do, just grab the speed upgrade on them and run up to them and demolish them, while your hydralisk do the work on their ground army.
Mutalisk also might be an option if you just attack move, and run past them so they cannot be caught in a storm.
uhh and flanking is fine too, a dozen or so zerglings flanking them could kill them, and even if they don't they've wasted all their energy storming your zerglings and now cannot attack your hydralisk, or whatever composition you are running.
|
Just pump Roach/Hydra and never engage his army. Run in try to snipe what you can, split up your forces and if he does force a full engagement you need to spread everything out and pull the hydras back out of the storm asap. Not so much for the roaches but it does help. Another hard part while is is going on do not miss you larva cycle, you will need another wave of roach/hydra.
|
HT aren't nearly the threat in SC2 that they were in SC1. To be perfectly honest if I see my opponent going HT over Colossi I pretty much assume I've won. Storm just tickles roach and you typically can dodge the majority of the damage on Hydralisks. Throw in some zling/bling action and you're set. It becomes a macro game except his primary unit is limited by energy and terribly fragile.
|
By your logic, every single race is OP. Let me give you an example:
As a Zerg player in Diamond, I don't know why Protoss don't win every PvZ. The match up is tilted in their favor. They really have no excuse.
- Can't go Hydras because Colossi hard counter them, and because Corruptors suck against Stalkers all my Corruptors get owned, leaving my ground army to die to Colossus fire.
- Can't go Roach because Immortals hard counter them.
- Can't go air because of stalkers.
...
When I win a ZvP, I feel like I was lucky. I can't earn the win - when I win and watch the replay, all I can see are the mistakes the Protoss player made that lost him the game.
Negative ghostrider, the pattern is full.
Stalkers suck. This is self-evident. Even with Blink, Mutalisks can and do fly circles around them.
I want you to show me a replay or other example of Stalkers actually protecting Collosus from Corruptors. They don't provide protection. It is too risky to mass Stalkers against Zerg - so Protoss players shouldn't. Every Zerg unit except Roaches, and maybe even Roaches with burrow micro, beats Stalkers both in speed of production and for cost.
Stalkers are just bad.
Hydralisks, however are good. Even with having half the life, half the mobility, and being a higher tier in tech, massed Hydralisks will destroy mass Stalkers. Why is this so? The Zerg player doesn't even need to climb the tech tree - go down a peg and make a batch of Speedlings. They'll take care of Stalkers. They move fast enough that Blink stops being worthwhile.
So Protoss must go either Templar tech or Collosus tech to deal with Hydralisks. Hydra's incredible damage destroys Void Rays and Carriers, so they aren't even a viable option. It really comes down to either Templars or Collosus.
And that brings us to this thread. Zerglings and Hydralisks completely dominate Gateway units. The Zerg masses Lings, which forces the Protoss to mass Zealots because even Collosus can't handle Lings, you need a meat shield of Zealots. So then the Zerg player makes a handful of Banelings and suddenly all those Zealots die. But the Zerg player took a 1/2 supply unit to make a counter to a 2 supply unit. That's called efficiency.
Don't play games or say something stupid like a unit that can't attack ground is countered by a ground unit, that's ridiculous. I am actually in the Diamond league losing to Zerg constantly, and I ask them for advice, and they tell me to go Templar because Collosus get beaten by Corruptors. I'm hearing what I am telling you from the Zerg players that are beating me.
Open your eyes and wake up, this game will have a rocky birthing process.This game is not balanced. If this game surpasses SC1, it will be because of hype and not quality.
|
You can use the abilities of units you mind control?
|
On August 08 2010 05:45 Plexa wrote:
Don't look for a unit counter, just flank well and micro well. That's all there is to it. You can use fungal growth too since if HT are fungal'd they can't cast storm.
wait really? weird, because I am pretty sure you can lift/land vikings and blink stalkers when they are fungal'ed.
On August 08 2010 09:44 DarthHalo2 wrote:
You can use the abilities of units you mind control?
yes. infested templar storm their protoss brethren =(
you can even build a nexus/cc with a mind controlled worker!
|
On August 08 2010 05:45 Plexa wrote:
Don't look for a unit counter, just flank well and micro well. That's all there is to it. You can use fungal growth too since if HT are fungal'd they can't cast storm.
Wow I never knew this, thanks!
|
Ironically if you make ultras the toss player can just merge some of his HT into archons and tank them. Archons are not armored and will not melt to Ultras (they don't hard counter them but can hold them back long enough for your army to seriously hurt them).
|
wow,,,,PVZ has a long way to go, do you think the zvp in sc1 was evolved from whining? why dont you use your time to figure out something instead of whining all the time. sc2 is full of hard cuonters, i remember being beat by skillless 4gate like 20 times before i came up with hydra+ling strat, i won with hydra ling countless times vs p, it definately has its flaws, blink stalker can just keep micro and take down hydras and , while getting up collosus den its kinda hard to deal with, just start thikning, and not copying the pros, cuz u wont understand anything or learn anything, i bet ur donig 4bg all the time anyway,
|
Just theorycrafting here but especially on the creep you should be able to move your roaches/hydras/lings up into the Toss army. With the speed they get on the creep you can basically make it a melee matchup, meaning if he Psi Storms you he has to Psi storm himself.
Just a thought
|
Oh ok, then I'm almost back to square one. I mean, I know about the flanking and everything but it's freaking impossible to pull off a perfect flank so that your units attack at the same time from all sides.
seems to me you just need to hotkey up and practice your micro game. flanking should never be that hard if you have 2 groups hotkeyed, your main army and the flanking speedlings. even if you can't solve the HT issue with flanking and still having trouble, flanking is a major part of zerg combat and will hlep you win many more battles against other units as well
|
On August 08 2010 09:03 Kurdaj wrote:Nothing the Protoss player can do because Stalkers suck.
Stalkers suck because they take 5-6 shots to kill a single Baneling. You see 8 of them rolling at you, what can you do? The Baneling explosion is larger than a Psi Storm.
Wow.. you need to actually look at the matches objectively instead of making shit up.
30 divided by 10 equals... less than 5-6. The explosion is much smaller than a psi storm.
You see 8 banelings rolling towards you? How about let them all roll into your stalker? He'll survive and cost the zerg 400/200. Pretty damn good deal.
|
Wow I hate zerg. Why am I still playing Zerg. I tried something new today instead of always going roach/hydra and getting raped by fast colossus.
I tried mass muta to get map control but i would up with a shitload of excess minerals and no gas and mass slings didnt do very match against mass stalker (even though in theory slings rape stalkers). Blink stalkers with just a little bit of micro absolutely rapes muta ling and I dont really have any answer for them. Blink stalkers even rape t3 units so me i am really in need of an out of the box answer. Fungal maybe? You can only cast so much fungal though.
|
On August 08 2010 09:44 Kurdaj wrote:Show nested quote +By your logic, every single race is OP. Let me give you an example:
As a Zerg player in Diamond, I don't know why Protoss don't win every PvZ. The match up is tilted in their favor. They really have no excuse.
- Can't go Hydras because Colossi hard counter them, and because Corruptors suck against Stalkers all my Corruptors get owned, leaving my ground army to die to Colossus fire.
- Can't go Roach because Immortals hard counter them.
- Can't go air because of stalkers.
...
When I win a ZvP, I feel like I was lucky. I can't earn the win - when I win and watch the replay, all I can see are the mistakes the Protoss player made that lost him the game. Negative ghostrider, the pattern is full. Stalkers suck. This is self-evident. Even with Blink, Mutalisks can and do fly circles around them. I want you to show me a replay or other example of Stalkers actually protecting Collosus from Corruptors. They don't provide protection. It is too risky to mass Stalkers against Zerg - so Protoss players shouldn't. Every Zerg unit except Roaches, and maybe even Roaches with burrow micro, beats Stalkers both in speed of production and for cost. Stalkers are just bad. Hydralisks, however are good. Even with having half the life, half the mobility, and being a higher tier in tech, massed Hydralisks will destroy mass Stalkers. Why is this so? The Zerg player doesn't even need to climb the tech tree - go down a peg and make a batch of Speedlings. They'll take care of Stalkers. They move fast enough that Blink stops being worthwhile. So Protoss must go either Templar tech or Collosus tech to deal with Hydralisks. Hydra's incredible damage destroys Void Rays and Carriers, so they aren't even a viable option. It really comes down to either Templars or Collosus. And that brings us to this thread. Zerglings and Hydralisks completely dominate Gateway units. The Zerg masses Lings, which forces the Protoss to mass Zealots because even Collosus can't handle Lings, you need a meat shield of Zealots. So then the Zerg player makes a handful of Banelings and suddenly all those Zealots die. But the Zerg player took a 1/2 supply unit to make a counter to a 2 supply unit. That's called efficiency. Don't play games or say something stupid like a unit that can't attack ground is countered by a ground unit, that's ridiculous. I am actually in the Diamond league losing to Zerg constantly, and I ask them for advice, and they tell me to go Templar because Collosus get beaten by Corruptors. I'm hearing what I am telling you from the Zerg players that are beating me. Open your eyes and wake up, this game will have a rocky birthing process.This game is not balanced. If this game surpasses SC1, it will be because of hype and not quality.
All your problems seem to come down to control really, your just listing all the units that are good against each other and completely ignoring how the game actually plays out, banelings killing your zealots, use FF, pull/blink stalkers in front, pick em off with colossus, corruptors killing your colossus pull back, blink under and kill the corruptors, yah your going to lose some colussus but hes going to lose corruptors and they are pretty expensive too. Zerglings killing your HT's, don't leave your HT's unprotected. And seriously how can you say that colossus don't deal with lings, thats just stupid, ffs upgrade colossus kill rows of them with each attack. Also you need alot of banelings to kill zealots and they are extremely expensive. And Stalkers are bad because mutalisks are more mobile? What does that have to do with anything? no shit an AIR unit can FLY around things, if those mutas try to fight even cost stalkers they will get destroyed no question. It seems like you just want to make that money unit comp and then 1a win, guess what it doesn't work that way, you gotta adjust over time, tech up, scout, control your army.
|
I actually like ZvP once you make it past the 4-gate gayness.
Zealots, sentries, stalkers, colossi, immortals, observers, HTs, archons, make a great shifting base while phoenixs and void rays can move around the back looking for ovies/queens to snipe.
Zerglings, roaches, hydralisks, infestors, ultralisks, broodlords and offensive queens are a very nice core army for zerg while banelings and corruptors are still actually useful in this MU.
There is so much tension between easy unit composition changes, very powerful flanking (nydus vs warp prism) and micro spell wars it just makes an awesome midgame.
Any time my PvZs end up here, its this war over creep tumors vs observer, force fields vs ultralisks, and fungal growth vs blink, with these small tiffs whenever our armies bump into each other, with broodlords and colossi taking shots when they can. Neither player wants to fully commit as the army comps are constantly shiting and trying to out flank each other to get the upperhand. Eventually it erupts into this awesome fight and one of the two is declaired a winner.
I don't feel bad if I lose, because I can pick out pretty easily in the replay where my mistakes were made and its just an awesome matchup.
If we could get Zerg through the early game consistantly, this is probably the MU I think will be 2nd funnest to watch as the game evolves. (I'm really looking forward to ZvZ a year or so from now).
Back to the topic at hand, their are a few ways to deal with HTs, none of which are particularly great, but that's pretty normal for zerg at this point in the game. I would have to say lings or roaches coming in from behind are probably the easiest to pull off. A big part of it is making sure your main army is spread out and keep hydras on creep wherever possible (they really need the 50% movement bonus). These two things can just about nullify storm, you don't even have to kill the HT.
|
Burrowed roaches are the way to go against ht, when the storm comes, you burrow out of the way, and gradually attack again, when you've got out of the storm range, and had enough hp.
Burrowed Roaches get like the same increase of hp burrowed in the ground, as the damage taken from the storm.
You can fungal growth, Muta snipe like in the brood war days :D.
|
the only thing i can think is fungal growth high templar when they're far enough their storm won't reach? or maybe have some infested terran beat on it
|
Another thing to do with infestors: feedback all his HT. Pulled it off once and felt like a champ. 1 feedback will kill at 80 energy right?
|
Yes, High Templars do tend to move with armies. Those faggoty protoss players, moving all their units together in an army so they don't get picked off.
I don't know what your problem with roaches is though. Roaches, especially when upgraded will soak up so much damage and still do a TON of damage themselves. A roach with tunneling claws will regenerate 10 health per second. If you stormed a burrowed roach, it would regenerate so fast that the storm does a little more than half the damage it was supposed to, leaving the roach very healthy and at full health just moments later. Also, remember that roaches are cheap. They're like, free. 75 minerals 25 gas is nothing, especially late in the game. One storm isn't enough to kill even an unburrowed roach, and once a high templar storms, it's used up, most protoss players would rather morph it into an archon than wait forever for its energy to regenerate. So the protoss player will waste tons of money on expensive high templar to storm your roaches to death, and you'll just be able to build more because they're virtually free.
In short. Shut up and get some god damn roaches.
|
Edit: Delete, didn't read, sorry
|
after just having lost a game to a pretty bad protoss, who used HTs alot, i also came to the conclusion that i just shouldve abused roaches more.
Just soak the damage, retreat, heal in burrow mode, repeat. Do it until energy is used up and then own him hard 
|
I can't read the whole thread but responding to the OP:
If mutas force archons, then you just dealt with the high templar. Mutas may be used to snipe any remaining HTs (though probably not cost-efficiently once he knows of them).
You should be able to get Ultras in time for HTs since HTs are T3 AND need 2 research upgrades to make them viable. Yes, immortals do counter Ultras/Roaches, but you're now asking how to counter High Templar + Immortals + Archons in a way that any tech switching toss does will still be countered. The point is that if you counter HTs then toss SHOULD be able to add another unit to counter your counter and so on.
I think the answer is to swarm in the back, so the immortals are stuck floundering with their short range unable to do much while your ultras and roaches (and maybe some hydras) burn through the vulnerable HT. When you start to get that money composition of units each it is less about hard counters and more about having more stuff, and engaging in a favourable position, and micro. I don't think that these things are harder for Z than for P in this scenario. The Ultras also crush forcefields.
Also remember that you have a scenario where he has High Templar (and Twilight Council, Templar Archives, Storm, Amulet) and a Robo Bay AND enough sentries to cut a 200/200 army in half. That is quite a bit of gas, to say the least.
|
On August 08 2010 09:03 Kurdaj wrote:
I went up against a Zerg who spammed Lings and Hydras. I went Templar build, and it was infuriating.
We had a mid-game fight of 150 food each, and his Lings/Banelings just roflpwnd my Gateway units, didn't even need the Hydras.
No, the Zergling is overpowered. It is broken. The Zerg gets ~30 food of it which forces you to make Zealots, the only spammable unit that can handle them, and then the Zerg morphs a few of them into Banelings, and you're screwed. Nothing the Protoss player can do because Stalkers suck.
Stalkers suck because they take 5-6 shots to kill a single Baneling. You see 8 of them rolling at you, what can you do? The Baneling explosion is larger than a Psi Storm.
As a Protoss player in Diamond, I don't know why Zerg don't win every PvZ. The match up is tilted in their favor. They really have no excuse.
- Can't go Collosus because Corruptors hard counter them, and because Stalkers suck it takes too long to kill a single Corruptor, much less a pack of 6 of them.
- Can't go Immortal because it's only good against two Zerg units, and one of those rarely sees the light of Game.
- Can't go air because of Hydras.
...
When I win a PvZ, I feel like I was lucky. I can't earn the win - when I win and watch the replay, all I can see are the mistakes the Zerg player made that lost him the game.
looks like your storms need to be placed better, with FF and storm you can decimate ling baneling armies. And it seems like your unit comp is all wrong, sounds like 6 collosi 10 stalkers 50 zealots and like 4 ht...
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
