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Has anyone seen this in pro play after the patch when the tech of fast regen was moved to lair? In zvt it could be really good when responding to hellions > play normal but have slighty faster lair > fend off hellions while getting upgrades > most terrans will expand at the point you have like 12 upgraded roaches ready to tunnel inside their base. I experimented with the borrow unborrow mechanic (unborrow > shoot just 1 shot and burrow again, wait 1-2 secs and unburrow, you can move to get better position or not) and roaches even do fine vs marauders.
1) roaches have long cooldown, they better spend it underground with their insane regeneration rate. 1 marauder will not be able to kill a burrowed roach as it regens faster.
2) you can expect some free hits on the enemy before they even realise roaches are there.
3) even when scouted you can expect the terran not to have any scans availble.
4) you need some focus firing as terran because otherwise roaches can kill you with no losses even if you go pure marauders.
5) If the terran has scan the combat is in favour of terran if he focuses. If no detection > roaches rape everything.
Basicly if you can go past their choke and unburrow under their army unscouted it's a gg.
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I find its better to get roach speed first if I am trying to counter. Less gimmicky, more viable. I don't roach push against T, but against P i will respond to 2gate zealots with roaches to fend off the attack, first available 100 gas to lair, and then the roach speed upgrade. Works better on blistering sand type maps where if P is able to block off expo with forge and cannon, you can try to rush backdoor.
The bottom line is, there is a decent time window after the zealot push where Z can attack. I find that if I don't push roaches at this time, P will get his expo down as quickly as I get mine, and despite my early advantage in econ the $$ i spent on getting roaches up and the opportunity cost of not getting my expo down at 15 I find myself in trouble by midgame. If I can gain some effectiveness out of the roaches I was forced to build (often by overcompensating and massing some roaches up), then I have a better chance of either winning it early or doing enough damage to keep myself competitive midgame. As such, I will push with roaches immediately when the zealots retreat, and if its going well I will have lair up and be able to tech roach speed pretty quickly.
But, then again, I am low platinum. I can easily see this strategy losing viability as higher-ranked Protoss can transition away from the zealot push more appropriately.
And don't get me wrong, I love roaches with burrow, but at least against P it is likely that any quick roach push is going to meet cannons, eliminating burrow's effectiveness.
Any good?
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I love the strategies that can be used with the underground burrow movement of roaches. I haven't seen it as a "rush" yet because it takes quite awhile to research everything you need for it and if you're getting pressured then it would be pretty hard to pull off.
But I do like using it mid game to surprise an army that's either moving or set up in a siege position (tanks for example). It allows the roaches to get in close which they need because of their short range. And they just destroy stuff so fast.
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I've not been able to capitalize on roach burrow move yet. Tried it a few times after they buffed it, but usually it got shut down pretty easily. Its one of those things that looks more powerful than it plays out. Still waiting to see some good vods/reps of roach/burrow, i'm sure it willl come eventually.
Tunneling claws seems to have more viability at the moment to just heal your roaches in between fights, but regular burrowed roaches heal pretty quick for that usage as well so it is hard to say. Detection seems pretty rampant by the time one techs to tunneling claws most games.
Maybe I suck (upper diamond) but I often find my roaches are very vulnerable when I try to infiltrate a base with burrow move. If you error and they have detection you often lose your roaches, which can be devastating.
I think tunneling claws is a very good ability that most of us do not know how to maximize yet.
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My most successful "burrowed roach rush" was in a 3v3. Just tech up to where u need to be, sneak into the opp base and head for all three of their mineral lines, one after another. Works even better when your allies are putting on pressure from the front. I've tried it in 1v1, but it's not as successful. If you're playing at even moderately high levels, players usually already have detection of some sort by the time you hit. And if you're facing terran, those pesky supply depots at the top of their ramp stop the rush in its tracks 
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I would opt to use a few burrowed roaches as a harass more than a timing push. no risk of losing your army. but hopefully effective enough to keep your opponent defensive while you macro up and build energy on infestors.
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main issue i've run into is terrans block their ramp against zerg because of zergling run-in threats.
But i havent tried it since the buff.
Might seem kinda obvious but send one roach in first to see if he gets blasted (ie they have a turret)
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I would like to see a lot more roach micro myself. Like burrowing one int he front, moving it while burrowed to the back line and unburrowing, trying to maximize regen.
I can't wait for a player who has such good micro he is burrowing and unburrowing roaches in between shots to maximize health.
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On June 15 2010 10:10 DuneBug wrote:
Might seem kinda obvious but send one roach in first to see if he gets blasted (ie they have a turret)
Right. 1 ling will do the same job probably. But this strategy is so uncommon I have never seen a terran put a turret at choke to prevent it at the level I play at (ELO 400-500 diamond).
The supply block is not a problem. If the terran has not expanded by the time you have the upgrades you are already far ahead, if this is the case I would not even get much roaches but have hydra tech and drone up instead. And when you scout he is expoing > pump roaches and go. Also after he has expanded his supply will be lowered > you can move with roaches though it.
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I recommend not sending one roach burrowed to scout. That is one extra chance for the terran to notice the burrow shadow and then bait you into attacking. I've seen a couple occasions where people lost due to that. Send in a pair of zerglings or sack an overlord while your roaches are on the move.
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It is better to go all in roach via Nydus into his base. I seen Destiny use this tactic multiple times on his stream.
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I have a game where I used this pretty well against protoss.
gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=128041#/replay_overview
sorry about the editing, posting from mobile.
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Destiny beat LZgamer's terran mech with some amazing roach burrow.
Really, roach burrow is insanely useful. Whenever i opt for roaches, i always get all roach upgrades. I have never found myself in a situation in which i said "maybe i should have spent that money on something else." It ALWAYS pays for itself in some way or another. I don't like to just tunnel them into his main and pop up, I just like to catch a group of units off guard, etc. Burrow is too risky to just use as an all-in strategy, but I've never found it to be not worth the money you spend getting it.
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You can use it in a similar manner to blink if they have no detection. One roach is on low health -> burrow, next roach is on low health -> burrow. The best part is that they will be full or near full health after a small amount of time, so you can just rinse and repeat.
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In my opinion burrowed roaches are great against protoss. Especially if u manage to snipe or delay the robo bay / observer you can give them a lot of trouble.
What i was wondering now while reading the above is:
Is the terran orbital command able to throw down a scan while it is corrupted by an overseer? That would greatly increase the usability of roaches. I am thinking of corrupting the OC(´s) right before a confrontation so you can easily take out siege tanks/thors if he doesnt bring a raven with his army, which at my level terrans seem to forget or can´t afford quite often. (Mid-Upper platinum Zerg here)
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On June 18 2010 19:36 myk3 wrote:
In my opinion burrowed roaches are great against protoss. Especially if u manage to snipe or delay the robo bay / observer you can give them a lot of trouble.
What i was wondering now while reading the above is:
Is the terran orbital command able to throw down a scan while it is corrupted by an overseer? That would greatly increase the usability of roaches. I am thinking of corrupting the OC(´s) right before a confrontation so you can easily take out siege tanks/thors if he doesnt bring a raven with his army, which at my level terrans seem to forget or can´t afford quite often. (Mid-Upper platinum Zerg here)
Yes they are great against protoss players if u delay/destroy the robo's in my own experience as a Protoss player. Lost once due to my robo being late since I had no obs and my zerg opponent burrowed his roaches and moved right beneath my army and unburrowed and it was gg.
Secondly, I believe you deny his ability to cancel the scan from CC of Terran's.
Since it disables the CC for the full duration seeing it's an ability from the CC itself.
This would make it seem more viable but they'll need no detection (turrets/ravens/CC's with energy).
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I've done a trick using roach burrow play, it's fairly simple. Turtle up and prevent scouting, all the while pump burrowed roaches across the map, I found it to be effective against terran more than protoss, but it still requires a bit of luck.
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I never did a roach burrow build, but it seems pretty good. can anyone provide me with an exact build order for this build?
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I've always been kinda curious about going something like 14 pool / 15 hatch, and while the Hatchery is upgrading to Lair, build a second roach warren - then research both Roach upgrades and Burrow at the same time. It's only 150 extra min for the warren, and the Roaches aren't that heavy on gas. I have never tried it, but it seems like it could work
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TossFloss
Canada606 Posts
Day[9] Daily #133 ZpuX vs DayFly Analysis has demonstration of effective roach burrow being used ZvT against tank push.
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EPT
