ZvZ Mentality - Page 2

Turbo.Tactics

Germany675 Posts

June 11 2010 05:45 GMT

#21

Just stick to one build and pluck it's holes step by step. You don't have to get yourself into the reactionary postition as long as you keep the pressure up. On the other hand, if you can pull an expansion through you can take an huge advantage early on, as you'll just have to survive the first mutas and then mass em yourself.

For my experience Hydras are pretty useless in ZvZ, as I never had trouble dealing with them myself. Turns out mutas RAPE hydras so bad with +1 and I thank every Zerg that puts money into spore crawlers.

I like Ling Muta as both are perfect tools for mapcontrol. Banelings are annoying but can be dealt with until you get mutas and snipe the remaining.

Bleak

Turkey3059 Posts

December 17 2010 11:02 GMT

#22

I was just about to make another thread about this, but just thought let me search, perhaps there's already one and it seems there is.

I am a mid 1700 Diamond Zerg player, and since I made the switch from Toss to Zerg when I was in Platinum, I was having huge trouble with ZvZ. I just didn't know what to do. I felt like whatever I opted go, I lost because I just didn't know a general mentality to play the matchup.

I also play alot of 2v2s with a friend as Zerg, and we do a kind of Blink Stalker / 4-gate + (+1) Attack Roaches, and because of that I'm used to the roaches as a defensive and an offensive unit(sometimes their push happens before ours, and my roaches are already ready for that)

There were three things that gave me trouble in ZvZ: Banelings, Ling Runbys, and Mutalisks. Especially after roach range was buffed, I decided to change my mentality in ZvZ. It seems to be working fairly well right now, yes I'm not really playing high and skilled players, but generally it sounds like a good mentality that can fend off most things:

I open with a 14pool 13 gas, and immediately 3 drones to gas. At 40 gas, put down a evo chamber and get +1 attack at 100gas. When pool is finished, I get my queen and when queen is around 80% done, I put down the roach warren, so that injected larva and roach warren pops right at the same time.

Now, this is my main opening, like the core. The building block that I put everything on. With my initial 3-4 roach, I block my ramp to prevent scouting and ling runbys. If he comes with roaches, high ground advantage and attack advantage lets me be on top with extra roaches on the way. As soon as I get something like 7-8 roaches, I go and push and put down an expansion.There are several outcomes that can happen from this:

1) Zerg has already expanded (which I check with a ling close to natural), in this case unless he has a lot of spine crawlers, cannot really stop my roaches (especially with upgrade) from wreaking havoc and killing him, in the worst case scenario dealing alot of damage. Even if I clearly see I cannot break it, I just pull back.
2) He's going one-base roach or one-base muta/ling. I played a game yesterday and I saw him going roaches from one base 2 hatcheries. I just pulled back because he blocked his ramp with spine crawler and roaches. Then I droned up, started upgrading +1 carapace, got an hydra den and an infestation pit.

Here's what I did:

Mutas are always a threat, people love to get them. And I hate them. I used to just hate mutas in zvz. I even thought about going back to Protoss, I just died to Mutas so many times. Then, I found the solution, which is really connected to how my opening is played out:

I already have a evo chamber. Which means I can get a couple spore crawlers that will delay the initial 6-7 muta force. Plus, I already have attack upgrade and armor is on the way, with an extra queen on the field. Queens are extremely good against mutalisks. Two queens can kill like 4 mutas together already with 1/1. With spore crawlers, he won't be able to wreak havoc in my mineral line freely.

And, I also have a hydra den and infestation pit. Infestors are key to ZvZ. They blow up banelings, immobilize mutalisks, generally deal like at least 30% hp damage to most zerg units, and they immobilize your opponent's army. They are the key to the matchup. Big thanks and respect to PrinceXizor for showing that in his stream.

So, when my opponent comes for harrass what happens? I already have at least 1-2 infestors out, 3 queens, a couple spore crawlers and normaly 4-5 hydras on theway, which is enough to hold off mutalisks without taking much damage at all. Even better, a couple fungal growths and sending your hydras clean up like 10 mutas, you're way, way ahead. Which gives me all the time I need to bolster my mainforce, get upgrades, take a third and get my main attack push ready which happens around 20-22 min: A Roach Hydra force with more emphasis on roaches, with something like 15-20 hydras.

With 3-4 Infestors. This force is pretty hard to stop, because it has an answer for anything, against ling/bling/muta, infestors protect your from anything, they one shot banelings and severely cripple and damage lings, against a similar roach/hydra composition, it comes to your army immobilizing his and getting a concave, and extra 36 damage doesn't hurt either. By the time I attack, I'm also at least 2/2, which means I really have good advantages as I go to this fight. It's usually early for ultras, but sometimes there might be 1-2, and mass roach make short work of that. With this way so far I win most of my games, don't know how it'll work out as I move up, but as mentality, I think it's strong because it lets you survive, and make a strong push later, all the while expanding.

Against a player doing the same/similar build, infestor micro and positioning your army will be important than anything else. Besides that, what do you people think of this ?

Jeffbelittle

United States468 Posts

December 17 2010 13:56 GMT

#23

ZvZ is my favorite MU as I win almost all of my ZvZ games (...contrast that with I lose almost all my ZvT lol)

I do either a 16 hatch 17 pool or a 15 hatch 16 pool.

That sounds super late, and that's because it is. But it's always enough. Mr.Bitter proved it in another ZvZ thread.

Always do sling baneling, and I always win since I'll have the better micro. Fighting roaches, it's all about getting surrounds, and knowing when to fight the roaches and when to just outrun them, go to his base, and kill his queens and drones.

I transition to mutas if I need to... but generally my games don't last that long. The econ from fast expanding like I did is enough to constantly make lings and banes, and if they lair etc. they spent more money than I did on *NOT* units. So assuming I have the better micro I'll win. You know: trade a ling for a bane, trade your bane for his 10 lings, trade your bane for his 5 banes. The standard ZvZ micro.

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