EPTSolution: change corruptor ability to disable the targeted unit from attacking for a short period of time (say 5 seconds).
[H] ZvT against Terran Mech - Page 8
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Equalizer
Canada115 Posts
Solution: change corruptor ability to disable the targeted unit from attacking for a short period of time (say 5 seconds). | ||
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ajfirecracker
United States29 Posts
Can speed-upgraded overlords drop banelings anywhere near a thor before getting killed really hard? That might solve tank issues affecting baneling use. 200 health + decent-ish regen could make it worth it. Has anyone tried aggressive spine crawlers with queens as medics? How would that do against thor? Spine crawlers are almost 150 mineral no-tech siege tanks in this case, since they have the same range as thor and should come close to trading 1-1, not to mention that they can move. Of course, you'd need a nice little base of roaches to help out (i.e. bust actual siege tanks/ make them unseige), but on paper the spine crawlers dominate thor cost for cost. edit: Also, spine crawlers don't take up supply, which is huge considering how much roaches eat now. | ||
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Equalizer
Canada115 Posts
Using overlords to drop banelings on the terran army may work provide the terran doesn't start mixing in marines with stim or a significant numbers of vikings as this would result in huge amounts of overlords being lost to be able to get them over the terran army. Also it is not cost effective to kill thors or tanks with banelings even if you loose no overlords and all banelings hit their target if the terran spreds his units reasonably well. The issue with using spinecrawlers is that they can only hold a position not push since they take a considerably amount of time to set up and ofcourse the terran doesn't need to engage them since tanks can out range them. So the best they'd do is stop harass and stall the terran army. Also you will not be pushing a mech force once it has critical size with just roaches. | ||
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ajfirecracker
United States29 Posts
If the build works, it will be because you can mass zerglings repeatedly and quickly, while they spend 60 seconds per thor and 45 per siege tank from 2-3 tech'd factories, not because it counters their units as effectively as possible (which zerg don't really seem to be able to do, as even the brood lord fails against this all-ground army since thor has better range). | ||
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Mnijykmirl
United States299 Posts
On May 22 2010 01:59 ajfirecracker wrote: I think we're getting off topic here if we're proposing game changes to deal with this matchup, so I'll get back to (hopefully) helpful suggestions. Can speed-upgraded overlords drop banelings anywhere near a thor before getting killed really hard? That might solve tank issues affecting baneling use. 200 health + decent-ish regen could make it worth it. Has anyone tried aggressive spine crawlers with queens as medics? How would that do against thor? Spine crawlers are almost 150 mineral no-tech siege tanks in this case, since they have the same range as thor and should come close to trading 1-1, not to mention that they can move. Of course, you'd need a nice little base of roaches to help out (i.e. bust actual siege tanks/ make them unseige), but on paper the spine crawlers dominate thor cost for cost. edit: Also, spine crawlers don't take up supply, which is huge considering how much roaches eat now. Overlords can absolutely make drops over Thor. But I think we're assuming Terran has Thor+Viking or Thor+Marine, because just Thor isn't enough for even Mutalisk. If you're going to bulldog-like stuff, Roaches are the better option I think. While it takes up more space in an overlord and costs more, a dropped roach will always receive 3 tank shots for siege tank friendly splash, because siege tanks no longer overkill. | ||
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ajfirecracker
United States29 Posts
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Leeoku
1617 Posts
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ajfirecracker
United States29 Posts
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
On May 23 2010 05:33 Leeoku wrote: iv played several zvt mech and it is so frustrating. mass speedlings/banelings dont work against a terran tank wallin. thors pretty much counter muts. hellions own speedlings. roachs/hydras melt against tanks. infestors get taken out so fast. ugh so lame Yeah this thread is pretty much pointless because a way of stopping a mech terran as zerg is non-existant, especially now after the roach nerf. The only thing that seems to work for me is skipping roaches and rushing straight to broodlords. It's entirely dependent on the terran turtling and not scouting though. You just have to be way better than your opponent to win. They really need to do something about this. On May 23 2010 06:14 ajfirecracker wrote: Maybe the new ultralisk buff wills make it work for late game, with aggressive roaches for early and mid game. It supposed to be anti-armored now, so that could work. Not to mention, the splash damage from it hits SCVs, making it somewhat less terrible of a choice in a thor fight (assuming you have multiple ultras and infestors for frenzy to fight through 250mm cannons). I doubt it, 250mm cannons, tank damage, and ultra's clumsiness and lowered hp will make it impossible to actually get in range. Maybe I'm wrong though, just have to wait and see. | ||
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BigDatez
Canada434 Posts
On May 23 2010 06:21 Drowsy wrote: I doubt it, 250mm cannons, tank damage, and ultra's clumsiness and lowered hp will make it impossible to actually get in range. Maybe I'm wrong though, just have to wait and see. Yeah, i tried using ultralisks, i had 8 out with my army (thats ALOT of food consumption BTW) And i mean, the fact that he had some marauders, and some UN seiged tanks shooting down the ultras (not to mention ULTRAS STILL GET STUCK ON OTHER Z UNTIS!!!) I mean, 2 of them got up close before dying to tank fire, and those 2 didnt last long (even with frenzy) Broodlords. The ONLY way to combat this is to un safely tech to broodlords, and get them out ASAP, while NEEDING to all-in push before he gets any vikings up. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
So before the mech army reaches a 'critical' mass you must outeco him. Roaches are very good against mech play early on and tier 1 so you can easily outexpo terran early on. The threat of mutalisks usually forces the terran into producing some thors before they go tank which delays their push quite a bit. After tier 1 eco and roach pumping you want to go to broodlords ASAP though, hydra's are completely useless at first against mech and mutalisks are decent but only in low numbers for map control, don't bother making more then 4 or 5 usually. Roaches low gas cost allow you to tech quite fast while controlling the map early on. Burrow + roach movement is also critical as it usually forces the terran to either get ravens (which are quite useless against roaches besides detection) or spend turrets/scans at stopping burrow harass. Broodlords instantly give a huge advantage against terran mech and corruptors actually aren't that bad at fighting vikings so corruptor + broodlord is quite a decent combo. | ||
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Moonling
United States987 Posts
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BigDatez
Canada434 Posts
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IrT4nkz
229 Posts
On May 24 2010 05:14 BigDates wrote: Eh, i've just been loling lately, i go 3-4 base muta spam with 3-4 corruptors eating all of those factories with tech labs after armory goes up... :D Any replays of this? It really sounds like bronze/silver league play though. IMO one viable way to exploit this is to do a base-trade with doom drops or nydus networks. Just need to out-expo him and drop/nydus into his base while his army is defending one expo then leg it. | ||
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NotGood-
United States134 Posts
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s031720
Sweden383 Posts
Go heavy on econ (3+bases), as he turtles up on 2 bases. Make sure he wont get more than 2 bases. Early muta-harass to force him spend resources on early thors (equals less harass on you and severely delayed ravens) and static defences (+youll want the spire anyway). Then go heavy on roaches, burrowmove, use it to ceep containing him. Fend of his harass. When he get a 150+ supply army and you can no longer stop him from moving out (and youve not got your BLs yet), play cat and mouse, try run around him into his base, drop, nydus; use his low mobility against him and force him to not stray to far from his bases. All the while you aim to go BLs, but only once you can support it, no rush since that will get you killed most probably. Once youve got BLs, the win should be yours. Make sure to have enough airsupport tso that they dont die though. Try it and see if it works for you. | ||
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ioRa
Canada14 Posts
1) It's very difficult to attack the Terran base, it's almost suicide. The only viable option is to Nydus worm or drop, which will get you rolled if the Terran army did not move out. 2) Since the Zerg can't attack the Terran base, the ball is in the Terran player's court. The Terran can choose when to attack, which is when the Terran player reaches critical mass ball of death that Zerg units can't deal with. 3) The Zerg can't scout the Terran until Lair, which means the Zerg can't assume the Terran player will go mech and drone hard in case the Terran decides to do a marine marauder rush, which will be too late when the Zerg is finally able to scout. 4) Infestors are next to useless vs Terran mech. 5) Broodlord, the only viable unit vs Terran mech requires pool->queen->lair->pit->hive->greater spire. Do you guys think it is a good idea for infestors to have something like Spawn Broodling from BW that requires 150 energy and can only be used on non massive units? | ||
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lew
Belgium205 Posts
On May 25 2010 06:02 ioRa wrote: Hello everyone, I've been reading these forums for a long time, but ZvT mech really made me want to post. Some of the MAJOR problems in this matchup is that: 1) It's very difficult to attack the Terran base, it's almost suicide. The only viable option is to Nydus worm or drop, which will get you rolled if the Terran army did not move out. 2) Since the Zerg can't attack the Terran base, the ball is in the Terran player's court. The Terran can choose when to attack, which is when the Terran player reaches critical mass ball of death that Zerg units can't deal with. 3) The Zerg can't scout the Terran until Lair, which means the Zerg can't assume the Terran player will go mech and drone hard in case the Terran decides to do a marine marauder rush, which will be too late when the Zerg is finally able to scout. 4) Infestors are next to useless vs Terran mech. 5) Broodlord, the only viable unit vs Terran mech requires pool->queen->lair->pit->hive->greater spire. Do you guys think it is a good idea for infestors to have something like Spawn Broodling from BW that requires 150 energy and can only be used on non massive units? 1) A drop will not get rolled if the terran army did not move out. Drop, destroy a few buildings and leave his base. Like this you force the terran to sit on 2 bases. EXPAND a lot!!! 2) by the time he moves out, you can have a lot of bases and broodlords + corruptors ready (which will delay him). Burrowed roaches will slow him down too (if he doesn't make a raven). 3) ALWAYS sacrifice an overlord. 4) No need of infestors if he goes mech. 5) Broodlords are easy to get against a mech terran because he will be sitting on 2 bases for a long time and you can expand and delay him a lot. Drops (nydus + overlord drops) + broodlords + burrowed roaches are mech-terrans their worst nightmare. | ||
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Pwere
Canada1556 Posts
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Prisom
United States83 Posts
Once siege tanks hit critical mass with some hellions in front to vaporize the speedlings its almost gg. Once he adds in about 4-5 thors to squash your air then it IS gg. The problem right now is that thors hard counter mutas AND ultras and can almost 1 shot hydras and 2 shot roaches. Having one unit that hard counters air and T3.5 ground is just a complete balance fail IMO. Even before the Roach nurf I still have never seen terran lose to zerg on the ground but then it was roachfest vs Mass thors with a hellion meat shield. Roaches would just get munched up because they didnt have long enough range to really focus down all the thors. Personally, i just got over it and started playing Terran. Toss dont really have a way to deal with MSR so I am happy to take the W's as they come. | ||
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